Does no one else question..

[HellasLEAF]

...the fact that Shanahan (has never been a GM, no managerial experience at any level. Not even being groomed like Yzerman), Dubas (28, no NHL managerial experience and to a lesser extent Hunter (a top scout and talent evaluator), are now the ones making major managerial decisions for this team for now and going forward.

Let me just say, I am a big supporter of what is going on here and have been clamouring for a rebuild for many years, since before Burke took over. Shanny, Dubas, Hunter and on down. I am a big fan of all 3 so far. Babcock too.

However, this talk of patience to bring in a GM and wanting to fit one in to their management structure is looking less and less true by the day. Are they even interviewing for GM anymore? See here's the thing, once you get a taste of power and control (Shanny) it starts to taste real good and you want more and more and want to give away less and less. Shanny has become the defacto GM, on top of his many other duties, and that's not looking like it's changing any time soon.

Is everyone comfortable with this? Personally I am not and hope they get this sorted sooner rather than later because it's my personal opinion that they aren't just dragging their heels on this one it's more like they don't want to have someone come in at all.

Click to read more...

 

[BayStBullies]

I'm not concerned with who rips things down. I would be more worried if no one is in place when they start seriously signing players and set up the frame of the team. They are years away, being patient is not a problem.

 

[Liminality]

Would be nice if they brought in someone who fits into their system so they can focus more on what they're best at but this is also the busiest time for them. Might have a GM by the time the season starts but its a great experience for Dubas and Hunter also. They're all smart people, they're not going to sway from the path they've set up any time soon so I'll trust them even going into next seasons trade deadline.

 

[cheeeko]

Shanahan is in control. As long as he's committed, I'm cool with it. Dubas is a really smart guy, and Hunter knows his stuff.

I trust them fully, they haven't given me a reason not to yet!

Any GM that comes in knows they won't have total power. It's probably not appealing to guys used to control. I doubt we hire a GM and then give Dubas the title eventually.

Shanahan's been around this league a long time. So has Babcock. I'm cool with the way they're doing it.

 

[dubey]

This has never been posted before

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Really wish we had a GM like Brian Burke. All that experience would've helped this organization through these rough years

 

[Daisy Jane]

...the fact that Shanahan (has never been a GM, no managerial experience at any level. Not even being groomed like Yzerman), Dubas (28, no NHL managerial experience and to a lesser extent Hunter (a top scout and talent evaluator), are now the ones making major managerial decisions for this team for now and going forward.

Shanahan may never have been "groomed" like Yzerman, but all Rutherford, Holland, and Lamourello ever talk about (when asked), is that, Shanahan knows a lot more than people are giving him credit for in the regards to experience.

and, to be fair. there are a lot of people questioning it and talking about it in the Leafs management thread. (just a fyi).

However, this talk of patience to bring in a GM and wanting to fit one in to their management structure is looking less and less true by the day. Are they even interviewing for GM anymore? See here's the thing, once you get a taste of power and control (Shanny) it starts to taste real good and you want more and more and want to give away less and less. Shanny has become the defacto GM, on top of his many other duties, and that's not looking like it's changing any time soon.

.

Just because you don't hear anything, doesn't mean they are not looking. all of their options didn't want to leave their organizations (or couldn't). Gorton is now GM (and we wanted to talk to them). Who knows what is going with Futa, but with the issues in LA, maybe Futa doesn't want to leave right now, and have Lombardi flapping in the wind. and BriseBois and the other guy both said, they want to see what Tampa can do before they go talk GMing, with anyone (who were the other options).

Is everyone comfortable with this? Personally I am not and hope they get this sorted sooner rather than later because it's my personal opinion that they aren't just dragging their heels on this one it's more like they don't want to have someone come in at all.

again, as was talking in the management thread - as long as actions are done and made in the positive, I don't care if it's Shanahan, or Santa Claus. I want the right person in place. If Shanahan can't find the people who want to work around people who are already making good decisions with the club - then what's the point of hiring them - for the sake of going. "Yada! GM!"

Shanahan has said he would prefer to have a GM with NHL experience in the front office, but they're not going to kill themselves to get it done, for the sake of getting it done.

 

[showtime8]

I'm not sure what you're worried about to be honest.

I believe that the people in charge have done a good job so far. They haven't made any rash decisions in free agency like the old regime and they've tried to correct a lot of the mistakes that previous GM's made.

As much as we'd like an experienced GM, their inexperience has cost the organization anything.

I believe Shanahan was a major part of clearing out Clarkson. He got a 1st rounder for Franson & he traded off Kessel's mammoth contract.

It's hard work clearing out the mistakes of the last decade.

 

[yubbers]

Shanahan is in control. As long as he's committed, I'm cool with it. Dubas is a really smart guy, and Hunter knows his stuff.

I trust them fully, they haven't given me a reason not to yet!

Any GM that comes in knows they won't have total power. It's probably not appealing to guys used to control. I doubt we hire a GM and then give Dubas the title eventually.

Shanahan's been around this league a long time. So has Babcock. I'm cool with the way they're doing it.

?

-Brought back Carlyle
-Set franchise records in losing his first year
-Still walking funny from the Kessel trade
-Passed on Hanifan

 

[Trapper]

...the fact that Shanahan (has never been a GM, no managerial experience at any level. Not even being groomed like Yzerman), Dubas (28, no NHL managerial experience and to a lesser extent Hunter (a top scout and talent evaluator), are now the ones making major managerial decisions for this team for now and going forward.

Let me just say, I am a big supporter of what is going on here and have been clamouring for a rebuild for many years, since before Burke took over. Shanny, Dubas, Hunter and on down. I am a big fan of all 3 so far. Babcock too.

However, this talk of patience to bring in a GM and wanting to fit one in to their management structure is looking less and less true by the day. Are they even interviewing for GM anymore? See here's the thing, once you get a taste of power and control (Shanny) it starts to taste real good and you want more and more and want to give away less and less. Shanny has become the defacto GM, on top of his many other duties, and that's not looking like it's changing any time soon.

Is everyone comfortable with this? Personally I am not and hope they get this sorted sooner rather than later because it's my personal opinion that they aren't just dragging their heels on this one it's more like they don't want to have someone come in at all.

Perhaps not groomed in the sense we are used to but nevertheless, Shanahan did not come unprepared.
Some are groomed only after they have retired from a sport, Shanahan has been learning and watching the entire time.

http://www.saultstar.com/2014/04/12/shanahan-learned-more-from-gms-than-coaches-while-playing

 

[Liminality]

?

-Brought back Carlyle
-Set franchise records in losing his first year
-Still walking funny from the Kessel trade
-Passed on Hanifan

?

+Fired Carlyle, got Babcock, timing was everything
+Got the board to finally agree to the tear down and give a proper rebuild even if we did waste a season to get to that point across
+Made it so Kessel wasn't the focus of the team anymore, trading from a position of weakness still got good quality rebuilding pieces back for the future
+Drafted Marner

 

[Lubo]

?

+Fired Carlyle, got Babcock, timing was everything
+Got the board to finally agree to the tear down and give a proper rebuild even if we did waste a season to get to that point across
+Made it so Kessel wasn't the focus of the team anymore, trading from a position of weakness still got good quality rebuilding pieces back for the future
+Drafted Marner

Nice rebuttal. +1

 

[cheeeko]

?

-Brought back Carlyle
-Set franchise records in losing his first year
-Still walking funny from the Kessel trade
-Passed on Hanifan

You've gotta be kidding

 

[Warden of the North]

Uhhh theyve been questioned since the day they were hired by fans and media alike.

 

[HellasLEAF]

guys all good responses.

Like I said. I'm a fan of both the process, and the guys we have in place right now.

What I am saying is so far so good.

What I am also saying is Shanny and co. don't seam interested one bit in bringing in a GM with experience if their current actions and inactions are anything to go by and THIS WORRIES ME.

Even the smartest, most resolute man can be corrupted by power. Shanny has been getting a lot of praise and support this far from fans and media for what what he has done in resent months. I hope it doesn't go to his head because being a successful general manager of a hockey team is something where experience is a real asset and not something to be learned on the fly. With the majority of the big trades and restructuring happening in the near term, this is something I am hope gets resolved sooner rather than later if at all.

 

[Leafidelity]

?

+Fired Carlyle, got Babcock, timing was everything
+Got the board to finally agree to the tear down and give a proper rebuild even if we did waste a season to get to that point across
+Made it so Kessel wasn't the focus of the team anymore, trading from a position of weakness still got good quality rebuilding pieces back for the future
+Drafted Marner

Couldnt have said it better myself

 

[yubbers]

If you don't think Carlyle being brought back was a mistake, I don't know what to tell ya.

Cool. I'm happy he got the board to agree to that. Doesn't change the fact of his record.

We got back garbage for Kessel. Only time will tell but that's my opinion

Again, only time will tell about Hanifan and Marner. Naturally if you agree with all his decisions your behind him 100% Those who quesion a couple will have doubts.

I'm still not hating on Shanny. But the blind faith is pretty intense. Maybe I'm just old and jaded.

 

[Purity*]

If you don't think Carlyle being brought back was a mistake, I don't know what to tell ya.

Cool. I'm happy he got the board to agree to that. Doesn't change the fact of his record.

We got back garbage for Kessel. Only time will tell but that's my opinion

Again, only time will tell about Hanifan and Marner. Naturally if you agree with all his decisions your behind him 100% Those who quesion a couple will have doubts.

I'm still not hating on Shanny. But the blind faith is pretty intense. Maybe I'm just old and jaded.

I agree with most of this actually. Carlyle being brought back was dumb as ****. Deciding to retain the core and give it another shot at playoffs was dumb as ****. Getting garbage back for Kessel probably wasn't the best move but I guess like you said, time will tell. Hanifin and Marner is definitely the most questionable one, no way you can pass any judgement on that decision just yet.

But yeah the blind faith in Shanahan can get a little uneasy to read around here. I started questioning him after that Gunnar for Polak trade and have been questioning his moves ever since.

 

[Daisy Jane]

guys all good responses.

Like I said. I'm a fan of both the process, and the guys we have in place right now.

What I am saying is so far so good.

What I am also saying is Shanny and co. don't seam interested one bit in bringing in a GM with experience if their current actions and inactions are anything to go by and THIS WORRIES ME.

Even the smartest, most resolute man can be corrupted by power. Shanny has been getting a lot of praise and support this far from fans and media for what what he has done in resent months. I hope it doesn't go to his head because being a successful general manager of a hockey team is something where experience is a real asset and not something to be learned on the fly. With the majority of the big trades and restructuring happening in the near term, this is something I am hope gets resolved sooner rather than later if at all.

I guess the only compared is Sakic - who fired his gm, took over, and is doing okay.

and I think the argument, is - Burke and Nonis both had experience and they structured the team the way it was, and here we are.

Again. i have to stress - because you don't hear anything - doesn't mean they're not looking. I pointed out all the options that the Leafs had and why they all blew out. Which means, Shanahan probably has to go through other options. And no one knows what the Leafs are doing right now. (not in the Toronto MSM) anyway.

 

[Dough72]

the one constant through all the years of losing, for all of mlse's teams, is avoiding rebuilds. They avoid them like the plague

this is the most commitment to an actual full rebuild I have ever seen from them. So I don't care if the managment team are total unknowns. The fundamental shift in team-building strategy is the most important thing, because I have seen what the alternative, avoiding rebuilds, looks like. And it's ugly. And boring

this new strategy might be the best thing that has happened to an mlse team since they bought them. And if it works, and creates some excitement and gets the TV ratings back to normal, they'll probably allow it to happen with the raptors too. Which is the only thing that will save that sorry franchise imo.

 

[Bluelines]

NHL's Vice President of Hockey and Business Development - with no experience... he must have pictures of hockey executives or he's a gifted hockey guy.

 

[BertCorbeau]

If you don't think Carlyle being brought back was a mistake, I don't know what to tell ya.

Cool. I'm happy he got the board to agree to that. Doesn't change the fact of his record.

We got back garbage for Kessel. Only time will tell but that's my opinion

Again, only time will tell about Hanifan and Marner. Naturally if you agree with all his decisions your behind him 100% Those who quesion a couple will have doubts.

I'm still not hating on Shanny. But the blind faith is pretty intense. Maybe I'm just old and jaded.

Bringing back Carlyle has gotten us 8 years of Babcock to look forward to ... So I wouldn't call it a mistake by any means.

I wouldn't call it blind faith either - rather it's the moves that Shanahan has been doing to get the Leafs on the right track in the future that has gotten mostly everyone happy and behind him. So far he's delivering on everything he's said he was going to do ... He talked the talk and is now walking the walk. To date, he's done everything right to get me to buy into the fact that the long term build and process is real.

 

[Canada4Gold]

someone else question this the other day actually. And made a very similar thread. You must have missed it.

 

[yubbers]

Bringing back Carlyle has gotten us 8 years of Babcock to look forward to ... So I wouldn't call it a mistake by any means.

I wouldn't call it blind faith either - rather it's the moves that Shanahan has been doing to get the Leafs on the right track in the future that has gotten mostly everyone happy and behind him. So far he's delivering on everything he's said he was going to do ... He talked the talk and is now walking the walk. To date, he's done everything right to get me to buy into the fact that the long term build and process is real.

And maybe that was his plan all along. I don't dispute there's a good chance he's an evil genius. His perceived "bad moves" may all have a solid end game. And you can't win them all. I'm hoping that's the case.

 

[613Leafer]

Based off of the moves from the past 12 months, this organization looks like it has the best future/direction it's had in a decade .

No NHL managerial experience? Who cares, they've already had a much better year than any under Burke or Nonis.