Does Marleau need a cup to be a hof player

[mr figgles]

Pretty sure he will get in. It will be a nice story for San Jose and Marleau has always been considered a "good guy" for the league.

Honestly I don't really care either. I would much rather the HHoF err on the side of letting in players that shouldn't be there as opposed to keeping players out who should be in.

If we're lowering the bar so that Patrick Marleau gets in, there is a pretty long line he is going to need to get behind.

 

[Dustin]

If we're lowering the bar so that Patrick Marleau gets in, there is a pretty long line he is going to need to get behind.

Such as? I too think there are some players that should be in the Hall that are not but that has no bearing to me on why future players should or should not be in.

 

[Paul4587]

He’s a compiler and shouldn’t get in but he will get in, the media love him and similar players are in.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Sundin is a HOF.

Marleau has pretty close numbers to Sundin.

So yes HOF.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

He shouldn't be a HOFer but it's the NHL so basically everyone gets in. If Andreychuck made it, never say never for anyone.

 

[JeremyTB]

The problem with Marleau getting in is there was never a time in his career where you would say "Marleau is one of the top players in the league" .

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

Sundin is a HOF.

Marleau has pretty close numbers to Sundin.

So yes HOF.

Are you sure about that?

 

[SladeWilson23]

No individual awards
Never been a finalist for any awards
Never top 10 in points
Only 2x top 10 in goals
Never scored 50 in a season
No AS-1 team appearances
No AS-2 team appearances

For a player who was known as a scorer and not exactly some 2 way marvel, you better rack up elite numbers and finishes against your peers. He failed to do that.

None of those things matter if he reaches 600 goals. Any player who reaches that many goals is an automatic HOF'er.

The HOF is not just about single season top 10 finishes and trophies.

 

[SladeWilson23]

60 pts per season while bringing nothing else to the table <> a HOF'er

Scoring 600 goals would make him a sure fire HOF'er on its own. Hell even the 550 he's currently at is probably enough.

Trophies and single season top 10 finishes mean NOTHING if you reach those totals.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Did you just start watching hockey? Of course they look at individual seasons. It’s why it took Dave Andreychuk 13 years to get in the HHOF (and some people still believe shouldn’t be in it) compared to Brett Hull who has roughly the same amount of points. Almost any HHOF player has either individual awards, multiple first team all stars, or numerous top 10 or top 5 finishes.

I love Patty, but he was never that caliber of player, ever.

600 goals gets him in. Hell even the 550 he's currently at probably gets him in. It is possible for a player to compile himself into the HOF.

Single seasons top 10 finishes and trophies are NOT the only things that matter when it comes to the HOF.

 

[SladeWilson23]

which is no where near the level of "good" needed to be a HOF'er.

Its not that hard for good players to hang on in the NHL

Hal Gill played 16 seasons
Shane Doan played 21 seasons and 1,500 games
Glen Wesley played 20 seasons and 1,450 games

Do those players have 550+ goals?

 

[ricky0034]

doesn't he already have one?

I thought the Leafs won that back in October

 

[SladeWilson23]

Marleau isn’t a HOF. I wish people would stop glorifying his “consistency.” There is a difference between being consistent at a high level and being consistent overall. Marleau has rarely been consistent for more than a few years in his career, and that was mainly playing with Thornton.

Sure, he has the sexy stats and milestones....but will we just continue to ignore the context? Let’s say he does win a cup, he won’t be an impactful player regardless.

Saying a cup would put him in implies that he’s right on the cusps of the Hall, I don’t see it. A good player, but hardly ever a top player. Even Andreychuk at one point had more top end seasons as a winger.

You don't need "consistency at a high level" if you make it to 600 goals. That goal total alone is enough for him to make it. Even if he retires now at the 550 he's at will most likely be enough to get him in.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Ok I’m obviously dealing with someone who can’t look past whatever bias they have here.

If durability was as big of a factor as you believe then you should be just as passionate about Shane Doan and Rod Brind’Amour being locks for the HHOF considering they have played nearly the same number of games as Marleau (really just a season and bits difference) and (in Rod’s case) has more points then Marleau. I wonder why you’re not? Tough call.

There’s a reason why the Art Ross and the Rocket are awarded to the player with the most points/goals in the fewest number of games. It is a greater accomplishment to score 80 points in 40 games then it is to score 80 points in 82 games. This precedent is already set and established. You can keep kicking and screaming that those accomplishments are equal, but they’re not. Just like compiling stats to hit milestones is less of an accomplishment then hitting them because of elite play.

I don’t know whether this is delusion or homerism but you very clearly aren’t informed on how the NHL HHOF works or just NHL history in general, though you’re very passionate about needing to be right. You can keep living in whatever this is, but you’re not going to find much company outside of the Leafs board.

Heck, you should make this thread on the Sharks board and see what they say. The answer may surprise you.

Your Doan comparison falls flat because Doan doesn't have 550+ goals like Marleau does.

 

[Ivan13]

No... maybe to be a first ballot HOFer... but he'll get there eventually.

The only way he gets in is if he buys a ticket. First ballot?

 

[ricky0034]

Why are we penalizing Marleau for playing more games? Just because Marleau played more games doesn't mean his accomplishments should be deminished.

Again, for the ??teenth time.... The HHOF inducts players based on their contributions to hockey. I'm not stating that Marleau is an equivalent point per game producer to the rest of these guys... However, his point procuing accomplishments throughout their careers are very comparable. It is very impressive that Marleau has been playing in the league for as long as he has been. He shouldn't be penalized for this duribility...

with that logic Scott Stevens has "very comparable point producing accomplishments" to Bobby Orr

do you not see how silly that argument is?

 

[Ivan13]

Sundin is a HOF.

Marleau has pretty close numbers to Sundin.

So yes HOF.

He sure as hell doesn't unless you think 200 points less in 300 more games played is close. Not to mention their teammates through the years.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

The cup argument shouldn't carry much weight when judging individuals.

Hall of very good idc if he wins 5 in a row

 

[MyBudJT]

with that logic Scott Stevens has "very comparable point producing accomplishments" to Bobby Orr

do you not see how silly that argument is?

I'm not saying they're equivalent players, but they're both in the HHOF, are they not?

 

[Brunomics]

Personally he's one of those guys that's in the hall of very good. But not a HOF type player.

 

[MyBudJT]

Be my guest and make a thread on the Sharks board if you think you're right. What do I know? I've only been here for 12 years.

As if being a member here for any duration has a bearing on your hockey knowledge

We've been largely beating a dead horse here. I'll bring up another factor in Marleau's favour. A lot of his production has come at a low-point in NHL production. Scoring rates were largely down.

Era adjusted scoring puts Marleau at 28th for points, and 16th for goals...

 

[MyBudJT]

Scoring 600 goals would make him a sure fire HOF'er on its own. Hell even the 550 he's currently at is probably enough.

Trophies and single season top 10 finishes mean NOTHING if you reach those totals.

I agree... If you look at era-adjusted goals, Marleau would have 620 goals.

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Good a long time, but never elite

 

[HomerJLeafs]

He needs the be somewhere else just not in Toronto.
Hes been so f***ing bad this season.
Not a hall of famer.

 

[Ivan13]

I'm not saying they're equivalent players, but they're both in the HHOF, are they not?

Yeah, but the gap between Scott Stevens and Marleau is as big as the one between Orr and Stevens.