Does Marleau need a cup to be a hof player

[arrbez]

What does "level of player" have to do with it? I'm going to follow up shortly in another post.

He's never been a superstar, just a really consistently good player. I've seen someone ask before if we'd be having this conversation about Shane Doan if Thornton was traded to Phoenix instead of San Jose. Definitely can't rule it out.

Marleau is one of those guys who never had that extra spark of brilliance, for lack of a better term. Great wheels, good shot, good size, great pro. Seems like a coaches dream and he's had a hell of a career. But just not a defining player of his era.

So while I would say he shouldn't make the Hall, I'm almost certain he will because it's been proven time and time again that if you score 500 goals and you're a good guy, you'll get in.

 

[Cleetus]

He definitely shouldn’t be a HOFer but he might get in because he played for Toronto.

that makes no sense......

 

[PsYcNeT]

Since when are any of this criteria for making the HHOF?

Since when are awards/medals earned outside the NHL criteria for making the HHOF? It is an NHL established and ran venture (and has been since 1943).

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Since when are any of this criteria for making the HHOF?

since forever.

it's not some mystery how you define if a player was great or not.

for comparison...Brad Marchand has better HOF resume pieces than Marleau.

Top 10 goals: 2 vs 2 (4, 6 for Marleau and 4, 6 for Marchand)
Top 10 points: 0 vs 2 (5, 10 for Marchand)

Marchand also has an AS-1 that Marleau lacks

 

[The Macho King]

A Cup + a far better career to this point.

 

[MyBudJT]

He's never been a superstar, just a really consistently good player. I've seen someone ask before if we'd be having this conversation about Shane Doan if Thornton was traded to Phoenix instead of San Jose. Definitely can't rule it out.

Marleau is one of those guys who never had that extra spark of brilliance, for lack of a better term. Great wheels, good shot, good size, great pro. Seems like a coaches dream and he's had a hell of a career. But just not a defining player of his era.

So while I would say he shouldn't make the Hall, I'm almost certain he will because it's been proven time and time again that if you score 500 goals and you're a good guy, you'll get in.

So why should things go by your criteria, and not the criteria that the HHOF has set in place?

Since when are awards/medals earned outside the NHL criteria for making the HHOF? It is an NHL established and ran venture (and has been since 1943).

The HHOF has always recognized international play... Heck, there are players that have no association or very minimal association with the NHL that are in the HHOF.

Its not the NHLHOF, its the HHOF...

 

[easton117]

I don't think people here know what the Hockey Hall of Fame is about... people seem to think thats its a place for the elite point producers... but its more then that.

I suggest people review this: Legends of Hockey - Induction Showcase - Election Procedures

The attributes needed for a player to be nominated for the HHOF is as follows:


I think given that Marleau has provided this in spades.

1) Two time Olympic Gold medalist
2) Two time World Championship Gold medalist
3) A World Championship Silver medalist
4) Soon to be 7th all-time in Games Played
5) Top 30 all-time in goals scored
6) Will likely be Top 50 all-time in points
7) 7th all-time in Game Winning Goals
8) 15+ 20 goal seasons
9) Ironman streak of >800 games
10) SJS all-time leader in Points
11) SJS all-time leader in GP
12) SJS all-time leader in Goals


These are all very impressive feats, and how anyone thinks his resume isn't HHOF worthy is beyond me.

Ya this is a silly one.

He’s in kids. Could’ve retired and stayed out of Toronto altogether and still would’ve made it.

 

[MyBudJT]

since forever.

it's not some mystery how you define if a player was great or not.

for comparison...Brad Marchand has better HOF resume pieces than Marleau.

Top 10 goals: 2 vs 2 (4, 6 for Marleau and 4, 6 for Marchand)
Top 10 points: 0 vs 2 (5, 10 for Marchand)

Marchand also has an AS-1 that Marleau lacks

The HHOF does not look at individual seasons... they look at the career as a whole.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

The HHOF does not look at individual seasons... they look at the career as a whole.

Did you just start watching hockey? Of course they look at individual seasons. It’s why it took Dave Andreychuk 13 years to get in the HHOF (and some people still believe shouldn’t be in it) compared to Brett Hull who has roughly the same amount of points. Almost any HHOF player has either individual awards, multiple first team all stars, or numerous top 10 or top 5 finishes.

I love Patty, but he was never that caliber of player, ever.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Marleau needs to go back in time and become a better player than he was for him to be a HoF.

He was never a top 10 player in the league. Ever. Heck, there is even a strong arguement he was never even top 20 over the course of a season.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I don't think he "deserves" to get in.

But given how watered down a lot of the recent inductees have been, I don't doubt he will get in eventually.

 

[MyBudJT]

Did you just start watching hockey? Of course they look at individual seasons. It’s why it took Dave Andreychuk 13 years to get in the HHOF (and some people still believe shouldn’t be in it) compared to Brett Hull who has roughly the same amount of points. Almost any HHOF player has either individual awards, multiple first team all stars, or numerous top 10 or top 5 finishes.

I love Patty, but he was never that caliber of player, ever.

I think you misunderstood my point... but don't worry, I won't throw insults your way.

The player criteria for the HHOF looks at a players contribution to hockey. Of course individual seasons play a factor into a players contribution to the game of hockey... but individual seasons aren't the be-all end-all.

Unless someone can show me otherwise, this "Top 5" or "Top 10" is a load of crap and just made up criteria on what people think SHOULD be HHOF criteria, rather than what actually IS HHOF criteria.

 

[Kamiccolo]

He definitely shouldn’t be a HOFer but he might get in because he played for Toronto.

Ah yes if there is one thing Toronto is known for it's getting a ton of players into the HOF. Actually pretty damn rare for a Leaf to make the hall, or win a major award, or anything really. If you only read HF you'd assume they got it all the time just based off of some invisible bias.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

I think you misunderstood my point... but don't worry, I won't throw insults your way.

The player criteria for the HHOF looks at a players contribution to hockey. Of course individual seasons play a factor into a players contribution to the game of hockey... but individual seasons aren't the be-all end-all.

Unless someone can show me otherwise, this "Top 5" or "Top 10" is a load of crap and just made up criteria on what people think SHOULD be HHOF criteria, rather than what actually IS HHOF criteria.

Look at the patterns and accomplishments of previous enductees and see what they have in common.

 

[MyBudJT]

Look at the patterns and accomplishments of previous enductees and see what they have in common.

They've all made significant contributions to the game of hockey... so has Marleau.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Ah yes if there is one thing Toronto is known for it's getting a ton of players into the HOF. Actually pretty damn rare for a Leaf to make the hall, or win a major award, or anything really. If you only read HF you'd assume they got it all the time just based off of some invisible bias.

Invisible?

Before Marleau joined the Leafs.

After Marleau joined the Leafs.

Maybe the bias doesn’t actually exist among people who vote for the HOF though. That’s a possibility for sure.

 

[Bedards Dad]

at least a Cup.

poster child for what a compiler is. anyone can rack up gaudy totals sitting next to Thornton for a decade.

0x 50+ G
1x 40+ G
0x 90+ points
2x 80+ points

0x Top 10 points
2x Top 10 goals (4, 6)

Never higher than AS-4
No individual awards
The only time he was a finalist for anything is a 3rd place Byng finish

You have to be good enough to stay in the league long enough to complie points.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

You have to be good enough to stay in the league long enough to complie points.

which is no where near the level of "good" needed to be a HOF'er.

Its not that hard for good players to hang on in the NHL

Hal Gill played 16 seasons
Shane Doan played 21 seasons and 1,500 games
Glen Wesley played 20 seasons and 1,450 games

 

[Craig Button]

Even with a cup he won't be in the HHOF

 

[MyBudJT]

which is no where near the level of "good" needed to be a HOF'er.

Its not that hard for good players to hang on in the NHL

Hal Gill played 16 seasons
Shane Doan played 21 seasons and 1,500 games
Glen Wesley played 20 seasons and 1,450 games

Even with a cup he won't be in the HHOF

In case you didn't see this post

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

If Marleau won a cup at this point of his career, he'd do it as a passenger. He's not a good player anymore.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

They've all made significant contributions to the game of hockey... so has Marleau.

In what world?

Let’s look at the previous 5 NHL inductees and tell me how Marleau compares

Martin St Louis
- 2x Art Ross Winner
- Hart winner
- Pearson winner
- 1x First Team All Star
- 4x Second Team All Star
- 1x 100 pt season
- 4x 90 point season
- 1x Stanley Cup
- 1x Olympic Gold

Martin Brodeur
- 4x Vezina Winner
- 3x First Team All Star
- 4x Second Team All Star
- 3x Stanley Cup
- 5x Jennings Trophy
- 3x Hart Nomiee
- 9x Vezina Nominee
- 1st overall in wins

Teemu Selanne
- 1x Rocket Richard (But lead the league 3 times before it existed)
- 2x First Team All Star
- 2x Second Team All Star
- Stanley Cup
- Calder Trophy
- 76 Goal Season as a Rookie (record)
- 3x 50+ Goal season
- 3x 100+ point season
- 5x 90+ point season
- 6x 40+ Goal season
- 684 Goals
- 1457 points

Mark Recchi
- 4x Stanely Cups as a player
- 1x Second Team All Star
- 3x 100 point season
- 1x 50 goal season
- 4x 90+ point seasons
- Scored 123 points in a season
- 1533 points

Paul Kariya
- 3x First Team All Star
- 2x Second Team All Star
- 1x 50 goal season
- 3x 40+ goal season
- 2x 100 point season
- 402 goals in 989 games (.406 GPG)
- 989 points in 989 games

 

[MyBudJT]

In what world?

Let’s look at the previous 5 NHL inductees and tell me how Marleau compares

Martin St Louis
- 2x Art Ross Winner
- Hart winner
- Pearson winner
- 1x First Team All Star
- 4x Second Team All Star
- 1x 100 pt season
- 4x 90 point season
- 1x Stanely Cup
- 1x Olympic Gold

Martin Brodeur
- 4x Vezina Winner
- 3x First Team All Star
- 4x Second Team All Star
- 3x Stanley Cup
- 5x Jennings Trophy
- 3x Hart Nomiee
- 9x Vezina Nominee
- 1st overall in wins

Teemu Selanne
- 1x Rocket Richard (But lead the league 3 times before it existed)
- 2x First Team All Star
- 2x Second Team All Star
- Stanley Cup
- Calder Trophy
- 76 Goal Season as a Rookie (record)
- 3x 50+ Goal season
- 3x 100+ point season
- 5x 90+ point season
- 6x 40+ Goal season
- 684 Goals
- 1457 points

Mark Recchi
- 4x Stanely Cups as a player
- 1x Second Team All Star
- 3x 100 point season
- 1x 50 goal season
- 4x 90+ point seasons
- Scored 123 points in a season
- 1533 points

Paul Kariya
- 3x First Team All Star
- 2x Second Team All Star
- 1x 50 goal season
- 3x 40+ goal season
- 2x 100 point season
- 402 goals in 989 games (.406 GPG)
- 989 points in 989 games

Does Marleau need a cup to be a hof player

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Does Marleau need a cup to be a hof player

Great and thorough response to my post. If you can’t compare how he stacks up, then he definitely doesn’t belong.

 

[MyBudJT]

Great and thorough response to my post. If you can’t compare how he stacks up, then he definitely doesn’t belong.

Did you read the post?