Does Marchand deserve to finish top 3 in Hart voting?

[weinsink]

Matthews is a Centre who drives his line and yes, scores a million goals(64 in his last 82 games played). And he plays a good two-way game.

Marchand is damn good, but relies on his linemates to drive the line, does not play the much harder Centre position, and doesn't come that close in the goals dept.

You can base it all on "points" but that's not what makes a player better than another player. Use your eyeballs.

Also........any ranking, anywhere on the planet, has Matthews ahead of Marchand. So THAT'S good too.

Dream on,keep watching the laughs eh cause you obviously don't watch real hockey

 

[Horton Hears A Woo]

Congratulations. I've been watching(and playing) since the 70's. We should both win cookies or something.

As for the original topic.........no Hart votes for Marchand.
Like I said just admit you hate him and be quiet. The crap your posting is unreal. And also not correct

As much as you Bruins fans might try to overrate him, he's just "very good". And at his age, that won't be for much longer, either.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Sigh. Kids.

I never said Marchand wasn't good. Only that it's RIDICULOUS to call him better than Auston Matthews, and most would agree with me. Matthews has taken it to another level and is a top 4 or 5 player in this league now. Marchand......as good as he is.......is not that.

He got outplayed by PLD in the playoffs last year and dummied by Bergeron for two years in a row before that. I'll believe it when I see it in the playoffs.

 

[jetsforever]

Lmao no he isn’t just stop because nothing will back that up. The only and I mean only thing AM does better is score goals. He doesn’t come close to him in points and is by far the best two way winger in the lead. I’ll debate this all day with you because you have no leg to stand on

? They're tied in points

 

[Iapyi]

There is no argument against it other than "i dont like him."

I don't disagree. Welcome to the world of TML where guys like Matthews/Marner etc etc deal with arguments like "I don't like the Maple Leafs" OR "I don't like Maple Leaf fans". There is a lot of pettiness that exists. {e.g. see post #53}

I picked Marchand in another poll as the current top winger in the game. I can look at things objectively [heck I'll even admit I like some Montreal players] but many are not mature enough to do this.

 

[AvroArrow]

1) McDavid
2)/3) Matthews/Mackinnon
4) Draisaitl
5) Marchand

 

[Big Phil]

I'm a Leaf fan......................and yeah he could definitely be a Hart finalist. I could see it. I think McDavid most likely has the Hart wrapped up at the moment, but Marchand is having a heck of a year.

I'll call it, he's an eventual HHOFer as well. Someone suggested he is the best winger in the NHL right now. That's a possibility. Kucherov perhaps if he is healthy.

 

[Silky mitts]

Every few posts in someone with a Boston avatar calling someone a hater

 

[petrobruin]

Brad has been consistently a top 10 Point Per Game player for 10 years and on top of that he kills penalties and has a ridiculous amount of short handed goals over that period. Probably makes him a top 5 player just based on consistent domination of the opposition for so long. There are a few others of course and its subjective but i like Brad , he brings a healthy dose of competitiveness every time he's on the ice.

 

[amnesiac]

Why is Marchand the only one who gets penalized for having good line-mates? Every player you listed plays with other elite players.

For one, Marchand plays with 2 elite players, let alone just one

McDavid, Draisaitl, and Kane dont play with great players at all (at even strength)

Matthews is more valuable than Marner

MacKinnon more valuable than Rantanen

Barkov is the best player on a team no one expected to be as good as they are, and a top defensive forward

Crosby is Crosby

Stone, best player on a top team in the league while being a Selke candidate (10th in PPG)

Panarin 2nd in PPG

I would even say Barzal should be in the convo given that hes the only star on the Isles, but playing for Trotz lowers his point totals

 

[leafsfan5]

He got outplayed by PLD in the playoffs last year and dummied by Bergeron for two years in a row before that. I'll believe it when I see it in the playoffs.

How was he outplayed by PLD lmao, this argument has 0 substance behind it. The man had one good game and is treated as the Matthews stopper. Auston was still over PPG that series and by far the best forward on the ice.

Bergeron I'll agree with for 2018, he 100% shutdown Matthews. 2019 they weren't really matched up too much as Babs tried to get the Tavares line out there against Bergeron (Matthews was solid in 2019, 5 goals in 7 games). Nonetheless, there's no shame in being shutdown by Bergeron, he's one of the best 2 way centers we've seen. Sidney Crosby in his prime was shutdown by Bergeron in 2013

 

[BruinsBtn]

How was he outplayed by PLD lmao, this argument has 0 substance behind it. The man had one good game and is treated as the Matthews stopper. Auston was still over PPG that series and by far the best forward on the ice.

Bergeron I'll agree with for 2018, he 100% shutdown Matthews. 2019 they weren't really matched up too much as Babs tried to get the Tavares line out there against Bergeron (Matthews was solid in 2019, 5 goals in 7 games). Nonetheless, there's no shame in being shutdown by Bergeron, he's one of the best 2 way centers we've seen. Sidney Crosby in his prime was shutdown by Bergeron in 2013

PLD had 3 even strength goals and single handedly won a game.

Matthews got one even strength goal.

 

[leafsfan5]

PLD had 3 even strength goals and single handedly won a game.

Matthews got one even strength goal.

so? Auston had 2 game winning goals (the two games the Leafs won in the series) himself

On top of that, in the Leafs crazy comeback in game 4, Auston had 2 primary assists to make it 3-2 and then 3-3 followed by scoring the game winning goal in OT to make it 4-3. That's single handedly carrying a team out of defeat.

Matthews was more productive that series, there's no argument he was outplayed by PLD. Head to head Matthews had a 55.84 CF% while PLD had a 44.16% in the matchup. Auston also scored more points while being the focal point of an entire defense (more than half his time was up against Werenski/Jones).

 

[Emerz]

For those who are unaware, Marchand's production increase when either Pastrnak or Bergeron are injured, so if that doesn't dispel the notion that his production is due to being on a "super line" then I'm not sure what else will. I wouldn't expect people who don't watch the Bruins to know that, but you can look it up yourself it's verifiably true.

It's not a small sample size either, Bergeron has missed substantial time over the past 3 seasons and Pasta has been out for extended periods a few times as well.

Marchand turned Riley Nash in to a PPG+ center for about a 12 game stretch two seasons back, we're talking about a dude who has no offensive skill lol.

 

[Video Nasty]

Worth noting that Marchand is 4th in total points and 3rd in PPG over the past 5 seasons. Fairly high Hart and Selke votes in each of the last 4 considering his competition of course his reputation that no doubt hurts him in these matters.

One of the most under-appreciated players in recent memory. I like what BrainOfJ said about him being the straw that stirs the drink on the Bruins.

As it stands today, he has a better case in my eyes for being that #3 finalist for forwards than anyone other than perhaps Crosby.

 

[Staniowski]

Marchand likely would've won the Hart in '18 if he hadn't missed 14 games.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Mcdavid
Matthews
Crosby

 

[North Cole]

Idk, With the way AM is scoring there's likely only one spot available. I voted no, but really depends how he finishes the season. I think the 3rd spot is definitely up for grabs between him and Mack. Drai/the guy who misses 3rd in 4th.

Things shift if the Hawks make the playoffs because Kane will bump someone out.

 

[Pyrophorus]

It's going to be McDavid winning it, so it's academic. Matthews this year is doing exactly what Pasta did last year and that didn't even get a nomination, but the Toronto media loves him, so he'll be #2.

We can stop here.
The PHWA is LOATHE to nominating a Toronto player for anything, for thought of being biased.

Remember (as I said a lot), Toronto is the show. You come there, because you've been tapped to
be good from anywhere in the country. Doesn't mean that you're a Leafs boy/girl.

Maybe a 64g pace, can mollify the PHWA.

Brad is in the crowd with Stone, Hellebuyck, Crosby, Vasilevskiy

 

[Pyrophorus]

He got outplayed by PLD in the playoffs last year and dummied by Bergeron for two years in a row before that. I'll believe it when I see it in the playoffs.

6pts in 7games, isn't dummied.
PLD allowed the same amount of pts in 5 games.
Actually 3 games, as the Leafs were shutout twice.

 

[Regal]

We can stop here.
The PHWA is LOATHE to nominating a Toronto player for anything, for thought of being biased.

Remember (as I said a lot), Toronto is the show. You come there, because you've been tapped to
be good from anywhere in the country. Doesn't mean that you're a Leafs boy/girl.

Maybe a 64g pace, can mollify the PHWA.

Brad is in the crowd with Stone, Hellebuyck, Crosby, Vasilevskiy

Thanks for the laugh

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Idk, With the way AM is scoring there's likely only one spot available. I voted no, but really depends how he finishes the season. I think the 3rd spot is definitely up for grabs between him and Mack. Drai/the guy who misses 3rd in 4th.

Things shift if the Hawks make the playoffs because Kane will bump someone out.

With how the media loves narratives, there's actually good chance Crosby can sneak into the discussion as a finalist. And in fairness, if you go by "most valuable to his team" he's got an argument when you consider how well the Pens have been doing despite missing a bunch of guys (including Malkin) for pretty much half the season. Crosby was leading a team that was missing their entire 2nd line and two-thirds of their 3rd line for a bunch of games to within 1 point of first in the division.

 

[North Cole]

With how the media loves narratives, there's actually good chance Crosby can sneak into the discussion as a finalist. And in fairness, if you go by "most valuable to his team" he's got an argument when you consider how well the Pens have been doing despite missing a bunch of guys (including Malkin) for pretty much half the season. Crosby was leading a team that was missing their entire 2nd line and two-thirds of their 3rd line for a bunch of games to within 1 point of first in the division.

Certainly possible, he's coming on big. Based on last year, Drai likely can't be higher than 5th, not 4th. Dunno what I was thinking when I wrote that. So I could see something like:

McDavid
Matthews/Marchand/Mackinnon/Crosby
Drai

With 2-5 in any order depending how the season finishes. Don't see Matthews outside the top 3, so not sure who takes the other spot. If Chicago make the playoffs Kane teleports into the discussion.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Certainly possible, he's coming on big. Based on last year, Drai likely can't be higher than 5th, not 4th. Dunno what I was thinking when I wrote that. So I could see something like:

McDavid
Matthews/Marchand/Mackinnon/Crosby
Drai

With 2-5 in any order depending how the season finishes. Don't see Matthews outside the top 3, so not sure who takes the other spot. If Chicago make the playoffs Kane teleports into the discussion.

Yeah, I think it'll depend a lot on who gets hot these last 10 games. Voters seem to have a high recency bias, so if someone goes red hot over the final 10 games that will probably stick out more to these voters than whoever has been doing well the first 40-ish games.

I wonder if Rantanen having a great season, and Colorado generally being considered one of the favorites out of the West, will actually hurt Mackinnon. I think McDavid's got this locked up at #1, but after that both Matthews (Marner) and Mackinnon (Rantanen) have linemates who are also tearing it up. Marchand and Crosby aren't quite in that same situation, and voters might see them as "carrying" their clubs more than the former two.

It's all academical anyways because I don't see anyone beating McDavid. But it will be interesting to see what the voters think of the rest of the field of about 4 or 5.

 

[BruinsBtn]

6pts in 7games, isn't dummied.
PLD allowed the same amount of pts in 5 games.
Actually 3 games, as the Leafs were shutout twice.

?

If you don't count the games the Leafs were shutout, then Matthews is amazing!!!!

Hahahahaha. That's some Leaf logic right there.