Does Dubas have the power to make a coaching change?

[IBeL34f]

People who think Babs would still be here in 5 years if we had 5 1st round exits in a row make me laugh. The league acts on results, if we get knocked out in the first round again next year I'd expect Babs' job to be put on probation and if another 1st round exit the year after, gone for sure.

You don't wait the majority of a team's prime to fire someone just because you're scared, if Babs isn't doing the job in playoffs he'll need to go. Not every coach can be Scotty Bowman and coach well for life, eventually there's an expiry date.

And Dubas will need to make the case to Shanahan for firing Babs but don't think he's immune just because Dubas can't wake up 1 day and say I want Babs gone.

That you think 2 more years will mean "the majority of our team's prime" is exactly why Babcock's job isn't in danger right now - Our core isn't even entering their prime for another 5 years.
His leash is long - that we've exceeded Regular Season expectations early shouldn't change the amount of patience he will be afforded to properly develop this squad.

 

[Daisy Jane]

That you think 2 more years will mean "the majority of our team's prime" is exactly why Babcock's job isn't in danger right now - Our core isn't even entering their prime for another 5 years.
His leash is long - that we've exceeded Regular Season expectations early shouldn't change the amount of patience he will be afforded to properly develop this squad.

pretty much this.
like if it was like the person you quoted - five straight first round exits then I think the consideration would obviously be there, but if people think they are gonna fire Babcock should the Leafs not get out of the first round next year is laughable.

I would argue the Leafs could even take a step back (which could very well be likely) next year anyway.

 

[-DeMo-]

I still can't believe there are people who don't think Kyle will be given the same autonomy that any other GM gets. Shanny has spent 4 years hearing Dubas talk about players and there abilities and his opinions on alot of different situations and if he didn't agree with most of those opinion's he would never have been given the job. Dubas will have the same autonomy any other GM has, that includes being able to fire his coach if in the future he see's that as the move needed to be made.

 

[hotpaws]

I still can't believe there are people who don't think Kyle will be given the same autonomy that any other GM gets. Shanny has spent 4 years hearing Dubas talk about players and there abilities and his opinions on alot of different situations and if he didn't agree with most of those opinion's he would never have been given the job. Dubas will have the same autonomy any other GM has, that includes being able to fire his coach if in the future he see's that as the move needed to be made.

Since when did the other 30 GMs all have the same autonomy ?

 

[Eternal Leaf]

You can put any GM in and the same applies. No one is getting rid of Babcock. He's signed to a massive contract and hasn't done anything to warrant removal.

David Poile, Jim Rutherford, Steve Yzerman, or Lou Lamoriello could make the suggestion and it would get shot down.

 

[hfman]

1 . Dubas cannot fire Babcock. A 32-year old newbie with no NHL experience won't be coming in and fire a 55-year old Stanley Cup and Olympic Head Coach, ESPECIALLY when the President and Alternate Governor is the one who hired the coach in the first place.

2. Babcock will complete his full contract contract in Toronto.

And there you have it. Whatever the rest of you guys are smoking here is laced with some really super stuff. Get over it. Babcock is here to stay, no matter how many tears is causes you guys. Go grab a box of Kleenex or two, you're gonna need it for another good 5 years at least. I swear the Mike Babcock comedy in this place is gold

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Yes, but he'd need board approval, just like every other GM the Leafs have ever had. Ditto for any major signing. And even minor decisions like letting JVR walk probably get presented to the board on a quarterly basis, although wouldn't require approval beforehand.

ITT a lot of people don't understand how companies work.

Yeah it’s like they’ve confused working for a corporation with being a king. Dubas is the GM the people who pay his salary are still his boss.

 

[IBeL34f]

I still can't believe there are people who don't think Kyle will be given the same autonomy that any other GM gets. Shanny has spent 4 years hearing Dubas talk about players and there abilities and his opinions on alot of different situations and if he didn't agree with most of those opinion's he would never have been given the job. Dubas will have the same autonomy any other GM has, that includes being able to fire his coach if in the future he see's that as the move needed to be made.

While I disagree that Dubas has the autonomy to single-handedly fire Babcock, I do agree that Dubas and Shanahan likely share many aspects of the same vision, and believe that that fact alone should be enough for people to understand how ridiculous the notion of Dubas firing Babcock in the next couple of years actually is.

Barring a train wreck the likes of which I wouldn't even dignify as a realistic possibility - (think more last-place finishes than 1st-round exits) - I will be truly shocked if Babcock is ousted within the first 6 years of his contract (5 years with this core) and would consider such a decision to be one of the most short-sighted they could possibly make (along with trading of any of Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly, or Liljegren). His firing within this development stage would be the first legitimate crack that I've seen within the "Shanaplan," and would disappoint me as a believer in Shanahan's vision even more than it would disappoint me as a believer in the work Babcock is doing with this team.

Building truly great things takes time, and requires so much more patience than most people are prepared to withstand - There's a reason people never believed Leafs fans would be able to handle the pains of a proper rebuild, and one doesn't need to look very far around here to see it.

 

[hfman]

From zeroes to heroes in 2 seasons

it's what everyone demands around here

too bad they're all utterly detached from reality

 

[The CyNick]

Pretty silly question.

Every GM has the power to fire their coach.

Not this one

 

[IBeL34f]

I honestly hope someone asks Dubas or Shanahan this question at the next presser, but my understanding is that they've already preemptively provided most media outlets with the following response:

 

[diceman934]

It's understood that any new GM gets to bring in his own guy if he sees fit.

Sorry but that simply is not true anymore as now we have presidents who the GM answers to who answers to the owners. Back in the day when a coach made 200k or so yes a GM Likely could choose his coach but now days coaches are making a lot of money and the GM is not the head honcho either.,

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

If they flame out in the first round again, can his ass and get quenville in here ASAP.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

He probably could. But firing a coach here is the same as anywhere else; you'd need to convince those above you. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the Leafs are some special snowflake where only our GM can't fire people. There's a lot of money involved and some serious implications when firing a coach. The question is, why would Dubas want to fire Babcock? I'm critical of Babs but even I would think it's crazy to even consider firing him. He's a top 5 coach and you'd have a very hard time finding someone better.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Who the hell gives a coach an 8 year deal anyways? This may be the biggest blunder of the rebuild to date. We'll see...

This thread is the biggest blunder of the day.

Congratulations.

 

[Liminality]

Do people think there's a rift between Dubas and Babcock somehow?
On second thought, do people think Babcock has a rift with everyone? This is getting out of hand.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Do people think there's a rift between Dubas and Babcock somehow?
On second thought, do people think Babcock has a rift with everyone? This is getting out of hand.

My theory is that anyone who has been intimidated by a superior (boss or parent, etc...) irrationally projects their own fears and perceptions of that superior into Babcock. It’s cringey to see people reveal how they assume a team of professionals work, but the psychology behind it is kind of cute.

It’s also kind of frustrating when there are so many articles with people explaining how these figures (Lou, Babcock, Dubas) ACTUALLY conduct themselves in a professional setting available, however the fallback is to n their own assumptions and fears. Makes better entertainment, I guess.

 

[Nineteen67]

I hear he’s trying fire Babcock so he can hire Mark Hunter as head coach.

 

[SprDaVE]

This is a decision the GM and President of the club make. This isn't any different than any other GM that doesn't have the President title.

With that said, why would you want to change the coach? It won't happen for a long time.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Do you guys think Dubas actually has the power to fire Babcock?
If not then he's not a true GM as far as I'm concerned. The coach can't have more power than the GM in any successful team. GM's typically like to bring in their own coach as well. If they don't make it to the second round next year I think Babcock's job will be in jeopardy.

A lot of people have claimed Babcock got out coached, he hasn't won a round in the playoffs in x number of years, 8 or 9 I think? Albeit the wings took a huge nose dive talent wise once Lidstrom retired(OBVIOUSLY.) but still not a good stat to have on your resume. Overplaying Anderson even though a playoff spot was locked up is another thing people have doubts about...the use of Leivo, etc.

The possible power struggle within the organization combined with the rumored rift between Babs and Matthews should make things very interesting moving forward. As much as Babcock has helped the rebuild I'm not convinced he's the coach to take the team to the top. Babcock may be too old school for this era. He's very hard on his players, does that work nowadays?

I'd prefer Dubas to have full autonomy to make a coaching change if he sees fit but I don't think that's the case.

Duby has the same powers as Lou did. If he feels a coaching change is in order, Shanny will have to be on board with it.

It's irrelevant anyway, the coach is going nowhere in the immediate future. Nor should he be. He's done a very good job.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Then he's not a true GM. This is a bad situation...

Same situation as Lou. Was that a bad situation?

 

[LeafFever]

Maybe, but do any of you think we can find better than Babs? Maybe Rod "The Bod" Brind'Amour would have been better?

 

[Vexed]

I don't think this thread makes any sense right now because we are nowhere near the point of even discussing moving off Babcock

 

[LeafFever]

I don't think this thread makes any sense right now because we are nowhere near the point of even discussing moving off Babcock

Not at all. we were dead-last 2 years ago. None of us predicted this fast ascension and now everyone forgets that and wants better results.

 

[PromisedLand]

I don't want Babcock to get fired.

Would really like him to become a better coach. (which I think he could easily do...but maybe not so easily for him to admit his faults)

According to Dubas’ interviews babcocks zest for life and love for hockey (Dubas said it’s a sickness but used it in a positive manner) is misconstrued as “ego” whether Dubas was honest or trying to keep things light is to be seen.

IMO in a results driven business (like any business) results would drive any decisions.

If Babcock is stubborn to do things his way but achieves results there is no reason for Dubas to question Babcock (results means long term sustained success and improvements and more than one shot at the cup)

If there are no results and Babcock is stubborn in his ways then either Babcock becomes more open minded and open to change or there would be a change in the position of the head coach