Does Dubas have the power to make a coaching change?

[kliq]

Then he's not a true GM. This is a bad situation...

As a Wings fan, I can tell you that I wish we were in your "bad situation". To fire a coach being paid that type of money on any team would likely require ownership approval.

 

[PuckMagi]

I would love it if Dubas just fired Babcock this summer. I know it wont happen, but it would be awesome if it did. But if we have another first round exit next year, I think Dubas might be able to make a change then if he thinks he would have support from Leafs Nation. He would basically be crucified if he fired Babcock right now.

What I hope he might do is trade some of players that Babcock overuses like Hyman and maybe even Hainsey. I like Hainsey, but Babcock did overuse him and if we make a big trade for a RHD, he might be the one going the other way. I do like Hyman now and would like him on the 4th line... and I think I could tolerate him with Kadri on a checking line. But if we make a big trade, Hyman might be looked at as a valuable piece who I think is pretty replaceable. We've got lots of wingers and if we were to trade a winger, I would trade Hyman (and obviously Martin, but he probably doesn't have much value).

 

[realgoodleafs]

hahahahahah what the **** is this?

there is no reason to fire babcock.

He had the Leafs playing the exact opposite style that Dubas wants to play.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Last thing we need is Babs being fired over a preceived conflict with Matthews and then have the team fall back. The situation would be beyond toxic and put Matthews in a terrible position.

Dubas is a magic blank slate to a lot of people, they seem to think their personal issue will be his personal issue. I can't wait until he starts making some decisions and people stop assuming that he see's the problems they do.

 

[kliq]

I don't think Shanahan has that power. Explaining to the board why they need to fire Babcock after giving him truckloads of cash would bring their competency into question.

Maybe in the last couple of years of his contract it's doable, but right now it would be pretty much impossible.

Exactly this. You can't pay a coach that kind of money, then have him fired so quickly.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Exactly this. You can't pay a coach that kind of money, then have him fired so quickly.

We've gone from 30-14-6 under Babcock, most of us are happy with him. He has his issues but he's a good coach and I have no doubt that ownership is thrilled with him.

 

[egd27]

Then he's not a true GM. This is a bad situation...

Babcock has 5 years left on his contract worth somewhere around $30M (reportedly)

To make the "he's not a true GM" statement because he has accountability for the organization's money displays a pretty poor understanding of how business actually works.

Not even Shanahan could fire Babcock and toss aside $30M of the owners' cash without their approval.

 

[Gallagbi]

He had the Leafs playing the exact opposite style that Dubas wants to play.

What style do you think he was playing and what does Dubas want?

 

[Gallagbi]

The reasons some people think that could be a better direction have been provided in the thread. Why not read it and actually add some value?

Seems like the thread is based on a misguided understanding of a GM's role.

 

[Warden of the North]

Babcock has 5 years left on his contract worth somewhere around $30M (reportedly)

To make the "he's not a true GM" statement because he has accountability for the organization's money displays a pretty poor understanding of how business actually works.

Not even Shanahan could fire Babcock and toss aside $30M of the owners' cash without their approval.

If Babs was dismissed this summer another team would hire him almost immediately. In this situation the coach agrees to forgoe his salary from the first team in order to be allowed to coach another.

Remember, hes still a member of the organization, hes not a "free agent". He cant double dip salaries

 

[Gallagbi]

If Babs was dismissed this summer another team would hire him almost immediately. In this situation the coach agrees to forgoe his salary from the first team in order to be allowed to coach another.

Remember, hes still a member of the organization, hes not a "free agent". He cant double dip salaries

I assume hed have some termination costs in his contract if he were to be hired by someone else.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Seems like the thread is based on a misguided understanding of a GM's role.

You mean a GM isn't a king who gets to dictate to a multi billion dollar company how it spends it's money?

 

[Buds17]

Who the hell gives a coach an 8 year deal anyways? This may be the biggest blunder of the rebuild to date. We'll see...

No cap consequences tied to it though. It's not like giving an eight year contract to a player. In fairness, that works for both risk and reward. This shouldn't end up the best or worst part of the rebuild.

 

[egd27]

If Babs was dismissed this summer another team would hire him almost immediately. In this situation the coach agrees to forgoe his salary from the first team in order to be allowed to coach another.

Remember, hes still a member of the organization, hes not a "free agent". He cant double dip salaries

Most likely......unless he decides to take a couple of years off and collect $10-12M of MLSE's money while travelling the the world.

Even if that scenario is extremely unlikely, management would not be allowed to take that risk without approval from ownership.

I generally don't make definitive statements here as I usually see many sides of a situation, but I'm certain of this one.

You can choose to believe that or not.

 

[Warden of the North]

Most likely......unless he decides to take a couple of years off and collect $10-12M of MLSE's money while travelling the the world.

Even if that scenario is extremely unlikely, management would not be allowed to take that risk without approval from ownership.

I generally don't make definitive statements here as I usually see many sides of a situation, but I'm certain of this one.

You can choose to believe that or not.

Im certain that if Kyle asked for approval to dismiss him, the board would allow him to do it. How much money did they allow Nonis and Lou to burn between Horton and Robidas island?

But lets be serious here, hes not getting fired unless things go really sideways, at which point we'll be further down the road, with less money owed and having an obvious problem.

 

[egd27]

Im certain that if Kyle asked for approval to dismiss him, the board would allow him to do it.

But lets be serious here, hes not getting fired unless things go really sideways, at which point we'll be further down the road, with less money owed and having an obvious problem.

Oh I agree he's not going anywhere, I was just responding to the poster that stated he isn't a real GM if he doesn't have the autonomy to risk losing 10's of millions of dollars without approval.

 

[Warden of the North]

Oh I agree he's not going anywhere, I was just responding to the poster that stated he isn't a real GM if he doesn't have the autonomy to risk losing 10's of millions of dollars without approval.

Lou didnt even have that power and he was most certainly a real GM

 

[Daisy Jane]

I would love it if Dubas just fired Babcock this summer. I know it wont happen, but it would be awesome if it did. But if we have another first round exit next year, I think Dubas might be able to make a change then if he thinks he would have support from Leafs Nation. He would basically be crucified if he fired Babcock right now.

What I hope he might do is trade some of players that Babcock overuses like Hyman and maybe even Hainsey. I like Hainsey, but Babcock did overuse him and if we make a big trade for a RHD, he might be the one going the other way. I do like Hyman now and would like him on the 4th line... and I think I could tolerate him with Kadri on a checking line. But if we make a big trade, Hyman might be looked at as a valuable piece who I think is pretty replaceable. We've got lots of wingers and if we were to trade a winger, I would trade Hyman (and obviously Martin, but he probably doesn't have much value).

no it would not be awesome if they fired Babcock, for goodness sakes.
holy moses. this franchise hasn't made the playoffs in 14 years, and you're gonna fire him because the team didn't make it past the first round in 3 years (when you put it in context - 1 year after being dead last, and the 2nd year was a coin toss?)

for crying out loud.

 

[Semantics]

Yes, but he'd need board approval, just like every other GM the Leafs have ever had. Ditto for any major signing. And even minor decisions like letting JVR walk probably get presented to the board on a quarterly basis, although wouldn't require approval beforehand.

ITT a lot of people don't understand how companies work.

 

[nuck]

Do you guys think Dubas actually has the power to fire Babcock?
If not then he's not a true GM as far as I'm concerned. The coach can't have more power than the GM in any successful team. GM's typically like to bring in their own coach as well. If they don't make it to the second round next year I think Babcock's job will be in jeopardy.

A lot of people have claimed Babcock got out coached, he hasn't won a round in the playoffs in x number of years, 8 or 9 I think? Albeit the wings took a huge nose dive talent wise once Lidstrom retired(OBVIOUSLY.) but still not a good stat to have on your resume. Overplaying Anderson even though a playoff spot was locked up is another thing people have doubts about...the use of Leivo, etc.

The possible power struggle within the organization combined with the rumored rift between Babs and Matthews should make things very interesting moving forward. As much as Babcock has helped the rebuild I'm not convinced he's the coach to take the team to the top. Babcock may be too old school for this era. He's very hard on his players, does that work nowadays?

I'd prefer Dubas to have full autonomy to make a coaching change if he sees fit but I don't think that's the case.

What a strange thing to be concerned about after the parade of donkeys this club has had behind the bench prior to him. Its like the sky is falling people with the club's center depth when they haven't had a #1 since Sundin and now they have Matthews and Kadri with 30 goals per backing him up.To me the "rumored rift"is more likely a media creation then anything we need to worry about. I guess Babs may have been a factor in the lackluster playoffs for AM and Andy but I am more inclined to put it on the players as just going flat at the wrong time. Babcock isn't a normal coach, based on the money they invested and his reputation. He will just get more rope than a lesser light, but he still has a shelf life.

Dubas doesn't have a lot of his own street cred yet, but when he is in place for a while and has made some solid moves he will be rewarded with more discretion. As far as I know there was no Babs versus Hunter and Dubas, and the internal issues may have been Lou vs the kids. I liked Lou but he was by no means a savant and the bar to replacing him isn't all that high. All KD needs to do is add better pieces then we had this year. Babcock can only play the guys he had in his lineup, whether they are the gud guys he wants or not.

 

[Dustin]

If Dubas thinks a coaching change is needed, he'll have to make a very good case to the board. Just like anyone else, I would assume.

Perfectly sums up how this works. None of the upper management are making decisions without input from others. If Dubas feels there is a need for a coaching change then more than likely there would be many people in head office who would feel the same way.

 

[Faltorvo]

Im certain that if Kyle asked for approval to dismiss him, the board would allow him to do it. How much money did they allow Nonis and Lou to burn between Horton and Robidas island?

But lets be serious here, hes not getting fired unless things go really sideways, at which point we'll be further down the road, with less money owed and having an obvious problem.

Kyle would have to go through shanny first,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, get it right would ya.

 

[egd27]

Yes, but he'd need board approval, just like every other GM the Leafs have ever had. Ditto for any major signing. And even minor decisions like letting JVR walk probably get presented to the board on a quarterly basis, although wouldn't require approval beforehand.

ITT a lot of people don't understand how companies work.

It's interesting how apparent this one thread is making that.

 

[Warden of the North]

Kyle would have to go through shanny first,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, get it right would ya.

Obviously, but Shanny also said today that Dubas is the GM and it is his team to run.

 

[Duffman955]

Why would we get a coaching change?

Our problem is that we dont have any defensemen that are defensive. Our problems are all roster based, not coaching. If we get a defense core that doesnt look like it should be in the draft lottery, and Babcock shits the bed, then we can consider firing Babcoack.