Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[LeafFever]

It’s irrelevant that he wanted 8.5. In no universe did he ever deserve anything close to that. Leafs could’ve offered 4.5 too, it wouldn’t have meant a thing.

Now you are not being realistic.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Now you are not being realistic.

He didn’t deserve 8.5 in any universe. Draisaitl was overpaid, but at least Draisaitl put up 77 points. Don’t be delusional.

 

[socko]

This is what we need right here, read some of these Stevie Y comments about a very similar player to Nylander. Nylander's "real" comparable in fact, not this Pastrnak B.S.

Steve Yzerman denies Jonathan Drouin trade was imminent

 

[Morbo]

It’s irrelevant that he wanted 8.5. In no universe did he ever deserve anything close to that. Leafs could’ve offered 4.5 too, it wouldn’t have meant a thing.

It's relevant when it comes to trying to pick a winner in the negotiation, if that were one's wish.

 

[The CyNick]

I'm starting to question the entire management team.

Our roster, even with our poor defense, should be getting more wins IMHO.

Something is OFF with this team. Shanahan and Dubas need to get to the root of our problems.

What if they ARE the problem?

 

[ACC1224]

It's relevant when it comes to trying to pick a winner in the negotiation, if that were one's wish.

No one will care once Nylander finds his pulse.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I am absolutely using the best case scenario for management. Nylander used the best case scenario for a player and got everything. $7 million is on the high end. As a RFA, the Leafs held all the power as employer. Nylander can withhold his services but Leafs can withhold NHL play and NHL pay.

He didn't though, as I pointed out. Of all his comparables, he ended up right in the middle. And all those comparables were RFAs as well. To be honest, I could make a pretty good case for why Draisaitl was a great comparable if you account for relative opportunity and such. That would push the numbers even higher.

Don't disagree with anything else you say here though. An inexperienced GM having to do some of the most important contracts in recent history is for sure cause for worry.

With cherry picking you pick the stats which will advance your agenda and case.

There was no cherry picking involved. And their numbers go perfectly in line with what the contract prediction models said.

No offense, but the way people throw around the term 'cherry picking' around here lately drives me nuts. Cherry picking is when you for example ignore the full sample and just focus in on a smaller sample that looks better. Lately, I can make a case where I look at pretty much everything important with as much context as I can provide and still get people that accuse me of cherry picking. It's become the flavor of the month expression people use to dismiss things out of hand.

 

[LeafFever]

It is accurate

It tells you what you want to hear so it's accurate to you.

 

[BayStreetBully]

It's relevant when it comes to trying to pick a winner in the negotiation, if that were one's wish.

If you actually think Nylander ever wanted 8.5. He himself knew he was never getting that. It was a negotiating ploy that Dubas should’ve disregarded from the start. Nylander got exactly what he wanted with 7. Heck, he probably would’ve done 6.5 if Dubas stayed firm until 4:59 pm.

 

[The CyNick]

It tells you what you want to hear so it's accurate to you.

It's accurate because it's accurate. I don't have a dog in the fight. What do I gain if it's true? What do I lose if it's not?

 

[Morbo]

No one will care once Nylander finds his pulse.

I along with Pepperidge Farms remember last season when Marner struggled for the first 30-35 games and there was a poster on here called Minus Mitch.

 

[LeafFever]

It's accurate because it's accurate. I don't have a dog in the fight. What do I gain if it's true? What do I lose if it's not?

Yes you clearly do. You dislike Dubas and it tells you something you like to hear. No one but Kypreos has claimed this.

 

[LeafFever]

If you actually think Nylander ever wanted 8.5. He himself knew he was never getting that. It was a negotiating ploy that Dubas should’ve disregarded from the start. Nylander got exactly what he wanted with 7. Heck, he probably would’ve done 6.5 if Dubas stayed firm until 4:59 pm.

So he missed 2 months of hockey? He wanted 8.5 because his stats were at par with DRaisaitl.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

He didn’t deserve 8.5 in any universe. Draisaitl was overpaid, but at least Draisaitl put up 77 points. Don’t be delusional.

I'll call this now. Willy never hits that as a Leaf.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Honest question for Leafs fans:

Do you trust our rookie GM Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

With what's transpired with William Nylander, do you believe he's going to be able to sign both of Matthews and Marner, and if so, to team-friendly deals?

I look at his managerial career thus far and I think he did some good stuff with the Sault Ste Marie Greyhounds, but they don't pay players to play. They're drafted and/or recruited.

I'm also aware him and his team know how to play with the numbers a bit to capitalize on the Leafs' financial clout.

But in terms of actually negotiating, being tough, and standing-off with professional sports agents who've spent their entire careers on the other side of negotiations with NHL General Managers, do you think he has what it takes? He doesn't believe in using tough players, but does he believe in tough negotiations?

As one of the most defining matters facing this franchise after this season's end, I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this.

Out of the"BIG 3" appears the only one that has proven himself is Mitch "Mighty Mouse" Marner. Nylander is/has and always will be a soft, perimeter player and Matthews.......moody, sullen, actually seems disinterested 75% of the time. Big man that will not engage physically. Then you have Marner. 100% hustle all the time, hits, plays D in emergency, kills penalties, runs the PP. And all at 5ft 3" and 135lbs (just kidding. )
Trade Nylander now. (I see Carolina is still struggling) Sign Matthew to a contract in the Dylan Larkin range. Give Mighty Mouse his due, he and JT are the heart / soul and face of the franchise. Not 34!!!
****Maybe move 34 as well for someone who actually gives a S^%T. There is no way that anyone can can claim that 34 is in McDavid territory. McDavid is carrying a whole team. Matthews......does he even wanna be here.

 

[ACC1224]

I along with Pepperidge Farms remember last season when Marner struggled for the first 30-35 games and there was a poster on here called Minus Mitch.

Different circumstances but I remember

 

[Morbo]

If you actually think Nylander ever wanted 8.5. He himself knew he was never getting that. It was a negotiating ploy that Dubas should’ve disregarded from the start. Nylander got exactly what he wanted with 7. Heck, he probably would’ve done 6.5 if Dubas stayed firm until 4:59 pm.

Nylander got exactly what the Leafs were comfortable with, that fit in their framework and also lined up with comparables(ie somewhere in the 6.5-7 cap hit area). Surprise surprise, that is exactly where we ended up, despite Nylander sitting for two months of the season.

I don't understand how people can twist this into Dubas caving.

It's weird, frankly.

 

[DarkKnight]

Bit surprised at the poll results to be honest, thought the free pass messiah sentiment was still prevalent. Good to see a critical eye.

 

[BayStreetBully]

So he missed 2 months of hockey? He wanted 8.5 because his stats were at par with DRaisaitl.

Only if you manipulate stats like you just did, looking at career totals where Draisaitl started off slow. Has Nylander ever come close to even 70 points? It’s hard to hit 70 points in the NHL, no matter how young you are and how fast you get out of the gate in your career. You may never hit that. Whatever happened to proving yourself first? And even 70 points isn’t worth 8.5 million. Not that Nylander has ever proven 70 points to begin with.

 

[The CyNick]

Yes you clearly do. You dislike Dubas and it tells you something you like to hear. No one but Kypreos has claimed this.

Kypper is a credible media source. Please ask a mod to help you with a list of sources that are considered credible.

 

[LeafFever]

Kypper is a credible media source. Please ask a mod to help you with a list of sources that are considered credible.

Kyper stated Marner needs to be traded a year ago.

 

[DarkKnight]

He didn’t deserve 8.5 in any universe. Draisaitl was overpaid, but at least Draisaitl put up 77 points. Don’t be delusional.

I had him in the 5's, good player but not a team driver, a complimentary marginal core piece. More upside, but still some risk as to ultimate impact.

 

[LeafFever]

Only if you manipulate stats like you just did, looking at career totals where Draisaitl started off slow. Has Nylander ever come close to even 70 points? It’s hard to hit 70 points in the NHL, no matter how young you are and how fast you get out of the gate in your career. You may never hit that. Whatever happened to proving yourself first? And even 70 points isn’t worth 8.5 million. Not that Nylander has ever proven 70 points to begin with.

Nylander is getting 6.9 million though.
And have you taken a look at how Babcock uses NYyander? HIs stats are pretty darn good with little PP time.

 

[LeafFever]

I had him in the 5's, good player but not a team driver, a complimentary marginal core piece. More upside, but still some risk as to ultimate impact.

You'll never sign guys if you lowball them. Drouin got 5.5 million per with 1 50 point season in his career and a smaller cap.

 

[rumman]

I said before Nylander signed that any gained offseason trade value by signing him instead of sitting him wouldn't be worth the damage done. I think I've been proven correct.

hard to argue with your point thus far. I also don't think he'll have any impact at all this year.