Do you agree with Gerry Cheevers getting inducted into the HHOF?

Do you agree with Gerry Cheevers being inducted into the HHOF?


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double5son10

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Jan 20, 2011
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Doesn't belong. As others have mentioned no hardware, no post season honors but I won't dwell on that. Cheevers seems to get most of his traction from two things, that he was very good in the 1974 WHA--Soviets Summit where a number of the Soviets apparently said he was the best NHL goalie he faced and the two Stanley Cups. These are the things that seem to have made his reputation as a "money" goalie, someone who was clutch. That reputation is what I really have issue with.

I won't argue with his performance in 1970 Cup run, nor the previous season where the Bruins fell just short against the nemesis Canadiens. Cheevers was outstanding in both. 1972 as mentioned above he was good, Johnston was better. Cheevers however seems to get most of the credit for because he was in net for the Cup clincher and pitched a shutout. Cheevers himself has said he was very good that game, crediting his defense for clearing pucks away and the Rangers for hitting iron on a couple of occasions. Still, give him credit for a good playoffs.

So that's two excellent playoffs and one good one. But sandwiched in there is 1971. There seems to be some belief, as reflected in the OP, that if Cheevers is in net for game 2 that the Bruins don't melt down and they therefore win the series. That seems like some magical thinking to me. The Bruins as a TEAM were terrible after building the 5-1 lead. Three of the Canadiens goals were on breakaways by Richard, Lemaire, and Mahovlich, all HoFers but somehow the result is Johnston's fault. But let's dispense with that for a moment and look at the series as a whole. In game 5 the Bruins absolutely buried the Canadiens, outshooting them 56-27 and putting 7 past Dryden. One more win and they clinch. So what happens to the "money" goalie in games 6 & 7? He puts up a 84.4 save % in the two games combined and gets thoroughly outplayed by the rookie Dryden.

I won't say much about the WHA yrs. other than to question the OPs statement that he was the definite best goalie in the rival league. On what is that based? Cheevers was certainly the best in 1972-73 when he was voted a 1st Teamer and won the Hastkins award but beyond that his future backup in Boston Ronnie Graham was more celebrated with postseason honors than Cheevers. Also, the Bruins went to the Finals with Gilbert, so they barely missed a beat without Cheevers (as compared to say Montreal sans Dryden).

So back to the NHL in '76. And this is where, to me anyway, that reputation absolutely falls apart. He splits time with Gilbert, who notably was given the start in gm.7 against the Kings and pitched the shutout. In the 2nd rd. against the Flyers the split-time continues and with the Bruins down 1-2 in the series Cheevers gets the start but gets outplayed by Wayne Stephenson, stopping 21 of 25 in a 2-4 loss. Gilbert then gets the start in game 5. So no money there.

In the '77 Finals he's AWFUL. Admittedly it's against arguably the greatest team ever but Cheevers performance is an absolute dog. Discounting the OT game 4 where he played well when it didn't matter much, through games 1-3 Cheevers stops only 48 of 62, for a miserable 77.4 save %. And it's not like he was getting shelled. Shots against were 24, 19, 19. No money there. Woof.

1978 Finals and the Bruins are playing out of their minds after gm.1, losing in OT in gm.2 then winning at home for games 3 & 4. Momentum is all on the Bs side going in to the key game 5 in Montreal. Unfortunately Cheevers lays an egg, giving up four goals in two periods, including a slapper to Lemaire from outside the blueline with just over a minute left in the second period. Goodnight Cheesy. Cherry sits him in favor of backup Ronnie Grahame for the 3rd, and it's 4-1 Canadiens. Game 6 is a similar game to its predecessor and in spite of an early lead the Bruins again fall 4-1 and Habs win the Cup. Cheevers combined save % in games 5 & 6 is 83.7 (41 of 49). No money there.

1979 Semis and Cheevers is lifted in favor of Gilbert who plays very well and gets the Bruins back in the series. Cheevers combined save % after games 1 & 2: 80.0. Nope, no money.

His final playoff series is against the Islanders in '80. He goes 1-4 w/ a 86.3 save %. Yes, he's facing a dynasty in the making, but for such a celebrated "money" goalie the results are again completely underwhelming. A 12 year NHL career and he's really just got three good playoffs? I just find his whole reputation as some meal-ticket stopper utterly baffling.

So a goalie who has no postseason awards or honors, who never got a single Hart trophy vote in the whole of his career, who outside of the two Cups he won sitting behind Orr & Esposito continually melted down in key playoff games, is in the HoF. Good for him, but he's a really, really weak selection imv.
 
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Danny46

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Dec 28, 2015
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Cheevers seems to get most of his traction from two things, that he was very good in the 1974 WHA--Soviets Summit where a number of the Soviets apparently said he was the best NHL goalie he faced and the two Stanley Cups. These are the things that seem to have made his reputation as a "money" goalie, someone who was clutch.

Yeah but he was bad in the Challenge Cup in 1979 against the Soviets...
 

MS

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Cheevers probably has a lot in common with Lanny McDonald as Hall of Very Good guys who were in the right place at the right time and had a catchy gimmick that caught the imagination of fans.

Cheevers was Bobby Orr's goalie on championship teams and had a legendary mask.

McDonald had a storybook final season and was the most loveable guy in hockey with a giant moustache.
 
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Dennis Bonvie

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Dec 29, 2007
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Doesn't belong. As others have mentioned no hardware, no post season honors but I won't dwell on that. Cheevers seems to get most of his traction from two things, that he was very good in the 1974 WHA--Soviets Summit where a number of the Soviets apparently said he was the best NHL goalie he faced and the two Stanley Cups. These are the things that seem to have made his reputation as a "money" goalie, someone who was clutch. That reputation is what I really have issue with.

I won't argue with his performance in 1970 Cup run, nor the previous season where the Bruins fell just short against the nemesis Canadiens. Cheevers was outstanding in both. 1972 as mentioned above he was good, Johnston was better. Cheevers however seems to get most of the credit for because he was in net for the Cup clincher and pitched a shutout. Cheevers himself has said he was very good that game, crediting his defense for clearing pucks away and the Rangers for hitting iron on a couple of occasions. Still, give him credit for a good playoffs.

So that's two excellent playoffs and one good one. But sandwiched in there is 1971. There seems to be some belief, as reflected in the OP, that if Cheevers is in net for game 2 that the Bruins don't melt down and they therefore win the series. That seems like some magical thinking to me. The Bruins as a TEAM were terrible after building the 5-1 lead. Three of the Canadiens goals were on breakaways by Richard, Lemaire, and Mahovlich, all HoFers but somehow the result is Johnston's fault. But let's dispense with that for a moment and look at the series as a whole. In game 5 the Bruins absolutely buried the Canadiens, outshooting them 56-27 and putting 7 past Dryden. One more win and they clinch. So what happens to the "money" goalie in games 6 & 7? He puts up a 84.4 save % in the two games combined and gets thoroughly outplayed by the rookie Dryden.

I won't say much about the WHA yrs. other than to question the OPs statement that he was the definite best goalie in the rival league. On what is that based? Cheevers was certainly the best in 1972-73 when he was voted a 1st Teamer and won the Hastkins award but beyond that his future backup in Boston Ronnie Graham was more celebrated with postseason honors than Cheevers. Also, the Bruins went to the Finals with Gilbert, so they barely missed a beat without Cheevers (as compared to say Montreal sans Dryden).

So back to the NHL in '76. And this is where, to me anyway, that reputation absolutely falls apart. He splits time with Gilbert, who notably was given the start in gm.7 against the Kings and pitched the shutout. In the 2nd rd. against the Flyers the split-time continues and with the Bruins down 1-2 in the series Cheevers gets the start but gets outplayed by Wayne Stephenson, stopping 21 of 25 in a 2-4 loss. Gilbert then gets the start in game 5. So no money there.

In the '77 Finals he's AWFUL. Admittedly it's against arguably the greatest team ever but Cheevers performance is an absolute dog. Discounting the OT game 4 where he played well when it didn't matter much, through games 1-3 Cheevers stops only 48 of 62, for a miserable 77.4 save %. And it's not like he was getting shelled. Shots against were 24, 19, 19. No money there. Woof.

1978 Finals and the Bruins are playing out of their minds after gm.1, losing in OT in gm.2 then winning at home for games 3 & 4. Momentum is all on the Bs side going in to the key game 5 in Montreal. Unfortunately Cheevers lays an egg, giving up four goals in two periods, including a slapper to Lemaire from outside the blueline with just over a minute left in the second period. Goodnight Cheesy. Cherry sits him in favor of backup Ronnie Grahame for the 3rd, and it's 4-1 Canadiens. Game 6 is a similar game to its predecessor and in spite of an early lead the Bruins again fall 4-1 and Habs win the Cup. Cheevers combined save % in games 5 & 6 is 83.7 (41 of 49). No money there.

1979 Semis and Cheevers is lifted in favor of Gilbert who plays very well and gets the Bruins back in the series. Cheevers combined save % after games 1 & 2: 80.0. Nope, no money.

His final playoff series is against the Islanders in '80. He goes 1-4 w/ a 86.3 save %. Yes, he's facing a dynasty in the making, but for such a celebrated "money" goalie the results are again completely underwhelming. A 12 year NHL career and he's really just got three good playoffs? I just find his whole reputation as some meal-ticket stopper utterly baffling.

So a goalie who has no postseason awards or honors, who never got a single Hart trophy vote in the whole of his career, who outside of the two Cups he won sitting behind Orr & Esposito continually melted down in key playoff games, is in the HoF. Good for him, but he's a really, really weak selection imv.

To many fans in Boston, "money" goaltender had a different connotation when Cheevers was first given that moniker.

You are correct, Cheevers was not good against the 70's Canadiens.

Most of your critique of Cheevers is about his return to NHL in 1976. It should be mentioned that Cheevers was 35 at the time and had made his money in the weaker WHA. Still, his record for the Bruins in the regular season was 95-37-29 over the rest of his career.

It's a good case for Cheevers not being an all-time great.

Still would be considered a borderline HHOFer, though.

Also, the 2nd NHL game I ever attended was a Bruins/Rangers game in Boston. Cheevers was a rookie and Eddie Giacomin was in his second season in NY. It was a 2-2 tie and both goalies were excellent, Giacomin really remarkable. Bruins fans were truly excited about Cheevers. Giacomin was named the star of the game, Cheevers 2nd star and another Bruins rookie named Orr was the third star.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
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ALL the ATD subboard vets (we run all-time drafts) voted like me. NO. No Yes and no Maybe. *whew* I think that qualifies as a HELL NO! from those of us who repeatedly have had to consider relative worth.

Start a "Top-5 better HHOF inductees than Cheevers" thread and we'll step up to explain.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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288 Better Hall of Famers than Gerry Cheevers. No. 53 will really surprise you.
 

BigBadBruins7708

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Absolutely no. he's in the same boat as Osgood and Fleury, neither of which are close to being HOF'ers IMO either.

Any goalie wins those Cups in Boston, and really the Bruins would've been infinitely better going with Dryden or Parent over Cheevers (yes, BOTH were in the Bruins system with Cheevers)
 
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Michael Farkas

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That post is obsolete. Cheevers never received any real voting for being a top goalie in the league, he wasn't considered one, and he folded in big spots famously.

Fleury has had 3x top-5 Vezina finishes and a win. He had a couple of Smythe-caliber runs ('08, '17 before Murray got put in to finish, to be fair, and '18).

Fleury has clearly distanced himself from Osgood and Cheevers.
 
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BigBadBruins7708

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That post is obsolete. Cheevers never received any real voting for being a top goalie in the league, he wasn't considered one, and he folded in big spots famously.

Fleury has had 3x top-5 Vezina finishes and a win. He had a couple of Smythe-caliber runs ('08, '17 before Murray got put in to finish, to be fair, and '18).

Fleury has clearly distanced himself from Osgood and Cheevers.

Fleury has a bigger reputation for folding than Cheevers. Fleury cost the Pens more Cups than he won them

To be fair Cheevers didn't have a chance to get any Vezina votes since it was still the Jennings in his time.

08 yes, but 17 no for Fleury. .924/2.56 is good but not Smythe worthy. And he still got replaced, with Murray getting 3 of 4 ECF wins and all 4 SCF wins with a .937/1.70. Using your standard, Cheevers has 2 Smythe worthy runs as well. '69 with a .947/1.68 and '70 with .925/2.23.

Comparing career Top 5s (to be fair with respect to league size)

GAA:

Cheevers - none
Fleury - 3,5

SV%:

Cheevers - 4,5
Fleury - 3,3

GSAA:

Cheevers - 4,5,5
Fleury - 4,5
 
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MXD

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To be fair Cheevers didn't have a chance to get any Vezina votes since it was still the Jennings in his time.

There's this thing called "Postseason All-Star Voting" which works pretty great as a substitute.

Cheevers has one Top-5 result (5th, 1977), and a very quick look at the numbers suggest that such voting result was probably not warranted (the voters thought Cheevers was more worthy of support than Tony Esposito and Mike Palmateer, amongst others; those two had better numbers, played more games and were playing on weaker teams).

Meanwhile, Fleury had three of these, and probably deserved a slightly better fate in 2014-15.
 
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Michael Farkas

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Cheevers had a chance to get even easier votes (which I used) and that's AS votes. In a time of very weak goaltending league wide (plus a smaller league) and he still was never top-5. Double-dipping on save pct. (already a tough stat) and GSAA is a tough look.

And you're using top-5 finishes for a goalie who had his prime in a 12-team league or whatever versus Fleury who literally played for the 32nd team. And still Cheevers isn't better. What a black eye that is for this argument.

Fleury was only remarked as a bigger choker because of recency bias with a little influence from your general Penguins thoughts...

I can't speak to Cheevers's alleged Smythe runs in '69 and '70...was he actually considered for the Smythe, did we see this? They may well be Smythe runs, I don't know. I've seen every single second of Marc-Andre Fleury's playoff career, every second, so I know the ins and outs. The idea that Fleury cost us more than he won us is preposterous, it's just something people say to gloss over a career that they don't care to remember or because he ended proving that person wrong because they made a claim about a 21 year old goalie with no goalie coach and felt like they had to stick with it or something...

Fleury was or was just about our best player in '07 and '08 (game 5 of the SCF was the best goalie performance I've ever seen). He was very strong in 3 of 4 series in '09, but the shootout against Washington damaged his averaging stats. He shutdown Detroit late in that series in a huge way.

'10 wasn't anything noteworthy one way or the other. Team seemed to run out of steam, like most teams that go to back to back Finals in this era. '11 was without Crosby and Malkin...it didn't matter what Fleury did.

'12 was the all-time **** show series. He didn't stop us - as that was a deeply flawed team. He didn't help us by providing any rock-solidness either. This was a poor one, but that's one of the strangest series in history.

'13 was a big failure by him. His biggest fold. Got replaced by Vokoun in the Isles series.

'14, '15, '16 don't move the needle one way or the other. He was really good in the series against New York in '14 as I recall. That's about all that's worth mentioning...

'17 he was the Smythe favorite early in the Conference Final round. Had a tough game and then Sully went back to Murray.

'18 I had him as the Smythe winner all the way to the Final. I kept a log, the last time Fleury was in 1st for the Smythe was May 31. Then by my next update, he had fallen. He ended in the 3/4 hole with Ovechkin.

'19 is the Ear of God miscarriage of justice. Would have been nice to get a save, but hanging a major power play on a goalie would be a lot.

'21 was really good in the first two series and then the whole team quit somehow against a Montreal team...regardless, he didn't cost them personally. Just some odd coaching choices...

So, '13 was his bottoming out, but to say that he cost us Cup when he didn't finish a series...Vokoun came in and won the first two and then we didn't score any goals in the ECF. So, fine, that's one. And then if you really want to make a point, you can hang that wacky '12 series on him...sure, whatever. But the charge that's made here is fraudulent.
 

Big Phil

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Refer to my post above on page 1 - I explain how he melted down twice in the 72 Finals and was yanked in favor of Johnston, and then later in his career for Ron Grahame.

He got a shutout in the clinching game in the 1972 Cup final. Definitely had a flair for the dramatic, wasn't huge on stats, but was good at winning. 1970 was all Cheevers in net, 1972 he and Johnston split the postseason. 1971 it was Johnston in net for that horrendous Game 2. Cheevers also there when the Habs met them in the final in 1977 and 1978. Wasn't in net for Game 7 in 1979. Maybe things are different if he is?
 

double5son10

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He got a shutout in the clinching game in the 1972 Cup final. Definitely had a flair for the dramatic, wasn't huge on stats, but was good at winning. 1970 was all Cheevers in net, 1972 he and Johnston split the postseason. 1971 it was Johnston in net for that horrendous Game 2. Cheevers also there when the Habs met them in the final in 1977 and 1978. Wasn't in net for Game 7 in 1979. Maybe things are different if he is?
Seriously? Gilbert was OUTSTANDING, one of the absolute stars of the game.

And of course there was a reason Cheevers wasn't playing. He couldn't beat Montreal in key games, not in '71, not in '77, not in '78 and in '79 he'd downright sucked in games 1 & 2 of that series and was benched. Let's deal with reality and let's not rewrite things to diminish Gilbert either.
 
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Big Phil

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Cheevers probably has a lot in common with Lanny McDonald as Hall of Very Good guys who were in the right place at the right time and had a catchy gimmick that caught the imagination of fans.

Cheevers was Bobby Orr's goalie on championship teams and had a legendary mask.

McDonald had a storybook final season and was the most loveable guy in hockey with a giant moustache.

Fair comparison, both players in Cheevers and McDonald are popular just beyond their numbers. But if McDonald isn't in, and we can say he pretty much had nearly an identical career as Middleton, wouldn't we be bringing up McDonald's name quite a bit in the way we do Middleton's?

Absolutely no. he's in the same boat as Osgood and Fleury, neither of which are close to being HOF'ers IMO either.

Any goalie wins those Cups in Boston, and really the Bruins would've been infinitely better going with Dryden or Parent over Cheevers (yes, BOTH were in the Bruins system with Cheevers)

Well let's look into that for a second. The Bruins spent 40 years without another Cup after 1972. Cheevers bolts to the WHA for a few years at this time. In that time frame they lost in 1973 in the first round and Johnston and an old Jacque Plante didn't do anything. Gilles Gilbert loses the 1974 Cup final and they lose in the 1st round in 1975 to Chicago. So I don't think it is fair to say "anyone" could have won in net for the Bruins, because they didn't do it without Cheevers.

Seriously? Gilbert was OUTSTANDING, one of the absolute stars of the game.

And of course there was a reason Cheevers wasn't playing. He couldn't beat Montreal in key games, not in '71, not in '77, not in '78 and in '79 he'd downright sucked in games 1 & 2 of that series and was benched. Let's deal with reality and let's not rewrite things to diminish Gilbert either.

By the way, let's remember one thing here, it was Montreal! Boston didn't beat Montreal for 45 years during this time in the playoffs. The Bruins did get past the Flyers those years too, not a shabby team by any means.
 

MS

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Fair comparison, both players in Cheevers and McDonald are popular just beyond their numbers. But if McDonald isn't in, and we can say he pretty much had nearly an identical career as Middleton, wouldn't we be bringing up McDonald's name quite a bit in the way we do Middleton's?

I've made this exact comparison several times before. Two guys both taken in the 1st round in 1973 whose careers almost perfectly overlapped.

In the summer of 1988, Middleton would probably be considered to have had a better career than McDonald - higher career totals, more top-10 scoring seasons, substantially better Hart voting record, more playoff success, considered a better defensive player. Both guys had exactly the same career total of 988 points.

But then Middleton gets bought out in 1988 by Boston (despite being considerably more productive than McDonald at that point in their careers) while McDonald limps through one last season as a fringe player on an elite team, barely clicks over 500 goals and 1000 points, and wins a Cup.

McDonald goes into the HHOF on the first ballot and meanwhile Middleton is forever stuck at 988 points and never gets a sniff.
 

Big Phil

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I've made this exact comparison several times before. Two guys both taken in the 1st round in 1973 whose careers almost perfectly overlapped.

In the summer of 1988, Middleton would probably be considered to have had a better career than McDonald - higher career totals, more top-10 scoring seasons, substantially better Hart voting record, more playoff success, considered a better defensive player. Both guys had exactly the same career total of 988 points.

But then Middleton gets bought out in 1988 by Boston (despite being considerably more productive than McDonald at that point in their careers) while McDonald limps through one last season as a fringe player on an elite team, barely clicks over 500 goals and 1000 points, and wins a Cup.

McDonald goes into the HHOF on the first ballot and meanwhile Middleton is forever stuck at 988 points and never gets a sniff.

It is one of the bigger discrepancy issues with the HHOF. How can two players who are so similar in career value have vastly different outcomes with the HHOF? McDonald was more physical and I would consider him the better goal scorer, but like you said Middleton was better defensively and would be the better overall scorer, I think, and was more effective at an older age. We just don't have an image of Middleton lifting the Cup in 1988, like McDonald in 1989. Personally I am okay with both of them in there, but not okay with one getting in right away and the other one basically being forgotten possibly for good.
 

MS

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It is one of the bigger discrepancy issues with the HHOF. How can two players who are so similar in career value have vastly different outcomes with the HHOF? McDonald was more physical and I would consider him the better goal scorer, but like you said Middleton was better defensively and would be the better overall scorer, I think, and was more effective at an older age. We just don't have an image of Middleton lifting the Cup in 1988, like McDonald in 1989. Personally I am okay with both of them in there, but not okay with one getting in right away and the other one basically being forgotten possibly for good.

That one really stands out because the players' careers overlapped so perfectly from 1973-88.

I mean, in the end it's a club and a popularity contest. Some players are well-connected and some aren't. Some players left a good final impression and others didn't.

The Kevin Lowe induction, magically, almost 25 years after he was retired is absolutely ridiculous. But the guy is a charter member of the NHL OBC and his friends got him in.

Some of this stuff might be a bit better if the HHOF actually released balloting like the BHOF does. It seemed like there was a push from the voters to induct Omar Vizquel a few years back until there was hard pushback on his voting results and now he's dropped way back down the ballot again.
 

Bear of Bad News

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Seriously? Gilbert was OUTSTANDING, one of the absolute stars of the game.

And of course there was a reason Cheevers wasn't playing. He couldn't beat Montreal in key games, not in '71, not in '77, not in '78 and in '79 he'd downright sucked in games 1 & 2 of that series and was benched. Let's deal with reality and let's not rewrite things to diminish Gilbert either.

Yep - if there was any way that Don Cherry could justify playing his guy over Gilbert in Game Seven, he would have. They don't get to Game Seven without Gilbert, and Montreal put up 52 shots in that one.
 

Big Phil

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That one really stands out because the players' careers overlapped so perfectly from 1973-88.

I mean, in the end it's a club and a popularity contest. Some players are well-connected and some aren't. Some players left a good final impression and others didn't.

The Kevin Lowe induction, magically, almost 25 years after he was retired is absolutely ridiculous. But the guy is a charter member of the NHL OBC and his friends got him in.

Some of this stuff might be a bit better if the HHOF actually released balloting like the BHOF does. It seemed like there was a push from the voters to induct Omar Vizquel a few years back until there was hard pushback on his voting results and now he's dropped way back down the ballot again.

It is a boys club far more than it should be. Baseball is very strict. If we take away the grudges the committee continues to have for players (Shoeless Joe, Rose, Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod) for things related to baseball then perhaps the best player not in right now is Curt Schilling, who my guess is only in because of his more outspoken nature. Schilling should be in, and I think eventually does get in there down the line because he never did the juice, but there is definitely less of a "Huh, how is he in and he isn't?" type of thing in Baseball.

I am not sure what they don't like about Middleton. He was a human highlight reel. So it isn't as if we aren't still talking about him after all of this time. He had a good nickname too. Not sure what is going on there.

Kevin Lowe....................hmmm. Yeah, that one bothers me. The 6 Cups gloss over a lot of things and that alone will give him less controversy but he wasn't a great defenseman in the NHL scope of things. Not considered great at least. Serviceable yes, a guy you want on your team yes, but a HHOFer? Also his acceptance speech irritated me a bit last year. Maybe it was just me, but there was this feeling of "It's about time my sort of player gets recognized" that came out. Yeah sure, there is room for stay at home types. Rod Langway is in there, to an extent Serge Savard too. But if you aren't contributing much offensively I think you have to be noticeably a difference maker if your niche is staying at home.
 

MS

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It is a boys club far more than it should be. Baseball is very strict. If we take away the grudges the committee continues to have for players (Shoeless Joe, Rose, Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod) for things related to baseball then perhaps the best player not in right now is Curt Schilling, who my guess is only in because of his more outspoken nature. Schilling should be in, and I think eventually does get in there down the line because he never did the juice, but there is definitely less of a "Huh, how is he in and he isn't?" type of thing in Baseball.

I am not sure what they don't like about Middleton. He was a human highlight reel. So it isn't as if we aren't still talking about him after all of this time. He had a good nickname too. Not sure what is going on there.

Kevin Lowe....................hmmm. Yeah, that one bothers me. The 6 Cups gloss over a lot of things and that alone will give him less controversy but he wasn't a great defenseman in the NHL scope of things. Not considered great at least. Serviceable yes, a guy you want on your team yes, but a HHOFer? Also his acceptance speech irritated me a bit last year. Maybe it was just me, but there was this feeling of "It's about time my sort of player gets recognized" that came out. Yeah sure, there is room for stay at home types. Rod Langway is in there, to an extent Serge Savard too. But if you aren't contributing much offensively I think you have to be noticeably a difference maker if your niche is staying at home.

Much like Middleton/McDonald, Kevin Lowe, Brad McCrimmon, and Mike Ramsey were basically the same players with the same careers over the exact same timespan. All were rookies the same year and retired within a year of each other.

McCrimmon was probably the best player of the three. But Lowe gets to ride Gretzky's coattails to the HHOF.

The regular voters of the BHOF have generally done a pretty good job - outside of recently not knowing what to do with Bonds/Clemens - but the Veteran's Committee mucks everything up. Harold Baines?
 

GMR

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Fleury has a bigger reputation for folding than Cheevers. Fleury cost the Pens more Cups than he won them

To be fair Cheevers didn't have a chance to get any Vezina votes since it was still the Jennings in his time.

08 yes, but 17 no for Fleury. .924/2.56 is good but not Smythe worthy. And he still got replaced, with Murray getting 3 of 4 ECF wins and all 4 SCF wins with a .937/1.70. Using your standard, Cheevers has 2 Smythe worthy runs as well. '69 with a .947/1.68 and '70 with .925/2.23.

Comparing career Top 5s (to be fair with respect to league size)

GAA:

Cheevers - none
Fleury - 3,5

SV%:

Cheevers - 4,5
Fleury - 3,3

GSAA:

Cheevers - 4,5,5
Fleury - 4,5
Since winning the Vezina, MAF has been benched several times and traded several more times. He was even benched in the same postseason as the regular season for which he won the Vezina. It's laughable at this point.
 
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Dennis Bonvie

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Dec 29, 2007
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Since winning the Vezina, MAF has been benched several times and traded several more times. He was even benched in the same postseason as the regular season for which he won the Vezina. It's laughable at this point.

You realize he won the Vezina last season, right?
 
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BigBadBruins7708

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Dec 11, 2017
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Fair comparison, both players in Cheevers and McDonald are popular just beyond their numbers. But if McDonald isn't in, and we can say he pretty much had nearly an identical career as Middleton, wouldn't we be bringing up McDonald's name quite a bit in the way we do Middleton's?



Well let's look into that for a second. The Bruins spent 40 years without another Cup after 1972. Cheevers bolts to the WHA for a few years at this time. In that time frame they lost in 1973 in the first round and Johnston and an old Jacque Plante didn't do anything. Gilles Gilbert loses the 1974 Cup final and they lose in the 1st round in 1975 to Chicago. So I don't think it is fair to say "anyone" could have won in net for the Bruins, because they didn't do it without Cheevers.



By the way, let's remember one thing here, it was Montreal! Boston didn't beat Montreal for 45 years during this time in the playoffs. The Bruins did get past the Flyers those years too, not a shabby team by any means.

Anyone probably was going too far with it given how Cheevers played in big games. More so meant he was probably 4th or 5th on the importance scale on those Bruins teams.

With goalies (and skaters) one of my personal HOF criteria is did they ever scare you. As in did you ever look before a game and go "oh crap, we gotta plan for X tonight". IMO Cheevers wasn't in that category, same way I never was afraid of Osgood or MAF
 

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