Line Combos: Do we need to tweak our "third" line?

[PlayMakers]

Back to the third, though, I think the simplest change would be to swap... drum roll... ... Pev and Seguin. Move Pev back to the right and move Seguin to the left (where he's looked good on the PP).

Did they not do that in G5? I thought Seguin played a ton on his off-wing in that game, but I wasn't focusing on where he lined up for the initial faceoffs.

 

[PlayMakers]

anyone thinking claude will sit jagr needs a headshake...the guy wins puck battles a helluva lot more than seguin, something a cycling line needs. lines stay as is, why wouldnt they?

I wouldn't sit Jagr, but I would consider putting Seguin or Peverley on that line with Bergy and Marchand because they're going to be going head to head with Crosby's line and Julien has shown he thinks Seguin is better than Jagr defensively (and Peverley is better than Seguin). Plus, Seguin's starting to heat up. Plus, plus, I thought Seguin did a nice job against Crosby and that line during the regular season, he had some terrific backchecks that neutralized Crosby's solo dashes.

 

[PlayMakers]

I'd be excited to see what Soderberg could do in the playoffs, but there's lots of "Kelly sucks look at the stats" chatter, and I don't see anyone acknowledging the rest of his game...

Kelly's one of the best PK'ers on this team, and has more time on the PK than Bergeron, Paille, Marchand, etc...

Kelly is one of our most important face-off guys, and our best LEFT handed option. He's won 63.4% of his draws in the post-season.

Playing that much on the PK keeps Krejci off the ice for the PK and allows Claude to answer a strong PK with a momentum building shift from his strongest line.

Having someone you can trust to win key Dzone draws keeps Bergeron fresh and frees him up to play in offensive and in more offensive situations (than if he was our only dependable defensive option).

Lifting Kelly out of the lineup would have a ripple effect. Maybe Soderberg would be great (like Krug has turned out), maybe he plays great but you weaken your team by changing some other dynamic. There's also a legitimate (likely?) possibility that he comes in and stinks. Most rookies need time to get acclimated to the NHL. Krejci, Marchand, Seguin... Krug is a rare exception.

Just seems to me that swapping Kelly with Soderberg is a 'hail mary' play. I think I'd sit on that move until I had no other options and my back was against the wall.

 

[Yeti34]

I wouldn't sit Jagr, but I would consider putting Seguin or Peverley on that line with Bergy and Marchand because they're going to be going head to head with Crosby's line and Julien has shown he thinks Seguin is better than Jagr defensively (and Peverley is better than Seguin). Plus, Seguin's starting to heat up. Plus, plus, I thought Seguin did a nice job against Crosby and that line during the regular season, he had some terrific backchecks that neutralized Crosby's solo dashes.

Pevs a -4. With one goal, and has shown no signs of improvement

Jagr is a -2 with 4 assists playing against his old team, and has been improving game to game.

I would rather the 2nd line have some hope of scoring a goal. Pevs has been just as bad on defense as he has he has offensively.

I wouldn't mind seeing Segs back up there, but first see if Jagr can get it going in game 1.


If the third line continues to struggle I would love to see Pevs in the press box in favor of Soderberg or Dogman.

 

[remer]

Pevs a -4. With one goal, and has shown no signs of improvement

Jagr is a -2 with 4 assists playing against his old team, and has been improving game to game.

I would rather the 2nd line have some hope of scoring a goal. Pevs has been just as bad on defense as he has he has offensively.

I wouldn't mind seeing Segs back up there, but first see if Jagr can get it going in game 1.


If the third line continues to struggle I would love to see Pevs in the press box in favor of Soderberg or Dogman.

I think the finger can be pointed directly at Peverely as a player who is struggling for the Bruins. Kelly is not far behind , Jagr and Sequin have shown glimpses that they can make a difference.
The first and fourth lines are fine.
The second line question is whether Sequin belongs back on the RW.
The third line is a mess and the question is "What do you do?"
Game one will likely mean that Claude will not make any changes. Depending on the results will dictate any moves. Unless someone gets hurt.
I would like to see :
Marchand Bergy Seguin
Soderberg Kelly Jagr

 

[PlayMakers]

Pevs a -4. With one goal, and has shown no signs of improvement

Jagr is a -2 with 4 assists playing against his old team, and has been improving game to game.

I would rather the 2nd line have some hope of scoring a goal. Pevs has been just as bad on defense as he has he has offensively.

I wouldn't mind seeing Segs back up there, but first see if Jagr can get it going in game 1.


If the third line continues to struggle I would love to see Pevs in the press box in favor of Soderberg or Dogman.

I'd be much more open to swapping out Peverley with Soder than Kelly- especially if I was going to put Seguin back on the Bergeron line to improve their defensive game vs Crosby.

The question (I'd ask myself) then becomes: Are the chances of Soderberg and the third line scoring more without Peverley BETTER than the chances of PIT's PP scoring more against a Bruin PK playing sans Peverley?

(OT: Not sure if that last sentence makes sense, but hopefully you get the gist of what I'm trying to figure out.)

 

[Yeti34]

I'd be much more open to swapping out Peverley with Soder than Kelly- especially if I was going to put Seguin back on the Bergeron line to improve their defensive game vs Crosby.

The question (I'd ask myself) then becomes: Are the chances of Soderberg and the third line scoring more without Peverley BETTER than the chances of PIT's PP scoring more against a Bruin PK playing sans Peverley?

(OT: Not sure if that last sentence makes sense, but hopefully you get the gist of what I'm trying to figure out.)

I get it. I thinks Pevs PK abilities are overrated.He is probably the only Bruin that plays a passive PK he sits back to much, and lets the points take shots, while not even attempting to block them. I don't know if you would see too much of a drop-off from Pevs-Kelly to Soderberg-Kelly once they get used to playing with each other.

 

[TCL40]

I would switch Pevs for Yeti or Dogman (think it would depend on what they wanted on the line).

Julien won't do it-he will stick to these lines-mostly because I think he trusts Pevs and Kelly.

 

[Yeti34]

It's not just about stats, if you actually watch the games there are things that are important that don't show up on the stat sheet.

Peverley and Kelly had horrible regular seasons and still had more points than Daugavins in his entire 92 game career, and they're both better skaters, defenders, and smarter players than he is.

Kelly and Peverly create zero offensive pressure. They have been terrible on and off the stat sheet. Segs has been generated chances with a ton of shots. I don't expect him to explode offensively with two guys that lose every single board battle, and stand at the blueline waiting for the puck to be broken out the entire shift.

 

[averagealex]

I'd be excited to see what Soderberg could do in the playoffs, but there's lots of "Kelly sucks look at the stats" chatter, and I don't see anyone acknowledging the rest of his game...

Kelly's one of the best PK'ers on this team, and has more time on the PK than Bergeron, Paille, Marchand, etc...

Kelly is one of our most important face-off guys, and our best LEFT handed option. He's won 63.4% of his draws in the post-season.

Playing that much on the PK keeps Krejci off the ice for the PK and allows Claude to answer a strong PK with a momentum building shift from his strongest line.

Having someone you can trust to win key Dzone draws keeps Bergeron fresh and frees him up to play in offensive and in more offensive situations (than if he was our only dependable defensive option).

Lifting Kelly out of the lineup would have a ripple effect. Maybe Soderberg would be great (like Krug has turned out), maybe he plays great but you weaken your team by changing some other dynamic. There's also a legitimate (likely?) possibility that he comes in and stinks. Most rookies need time to get acclimated to the NHL. Krejci, Marchand, Seguin... Krug is a rare exception.

Just seems to me that swapping Kelly with Soderberg is a 'hail mary' play. I think I'd sit on that move until I had no other options and my back was against the wall.

I agree with your points. I'd like to see Soderberg get a shot but I don't think it would be smart to scratch Kelly for him. Kelly's defensive, faceoff, and penalty kill abilities are simply too valuable, and no amount of offensive production we can reasonably expect from Soderberg could compensate for losing this if Kelly gets scratched.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

I wouldn't sit Jagr, but I would consider putting Seguin or Peverley on that line with Bergy and Marchand because they're going to be going head to head with Crosby's line and Julien has shown he thinks Seguin is better than Jagr defensively (and Peverley is better than Seguin). Plus, Seguin's starting to heat up. Plus, plus, I thought Seguin did a nice job against Crosby and that line during the regular season, he had some terrific backchecks that neutralized Crosby's solo dashes.

Here's one thing though.

There's no way that Jagr will be effective with Peverley and Kelly. That line was awkward as **** - looked awful constantly. And we won't win this series unless all four lines have some "click" to them.

In order to effectively sell this move, you're either sitting Jagr (for Soderberg, presumably), or you move Pevs to the second line (a promotion he has done NOTHING to deserve), while playing Seguin on his off-wing on the third unit.

???

I see what you're getting at, but right now? Jagr is fitting in with this team as poorly as I feared he would. And I'd just as soon have him take a seat while giving Soderberg a shot in Pittsburgh to start the series.

EDIT: Also, there's not a chance on God's Green Hell that Chris Kelly sits while healthy.

 

[westernhome]

regular season is a whole different thing, but I thought it was interesting to note that Bergeron Marchand and Seguin were our best players against Pittsburgh in the season series

 

[ODAAT]

Pevs a -4. With one goal, and has shown no signs of improvement

Jagr is a -2 with 4 assists playing against his old team, and has been improving game to game.

I would rather the 2nd line have some hope of scoring a goal. Pevs has been just as bad on defense as he has he has offensively.

I wouldn't mind seeing Segs back up there, but first see if Jagr can get it going in game 1.


If the third line continues to struggle I would love to see Pevs in the press box in favor of Soderberg or Dogman.

It`s been over a decade that Jagr played for the Pens, while I`ll agree he "probably" has many fond memories of his days there, I`m not so sure he`s of the mindset that he has to stick it to em.

 

[Flannelman]

Did they not do that in G5? I thought Seguin played a ton on his off-wing in that game, but I wasn't focusing on where he lined up for the initial faceoffs.

hi bill - sorry for the delay - i'm unsure, you're probably right but it wasn't something i noticed - which of course makes the point i was trying to make wrong.

but i thought he did look sharp playing that spot on the PP.

But this third line needs to get its act together. Penguins have depth and they can roll over this line.

Am I the only one who didn't mind Carl-Kel-Jagr? I thought they could have finished more, and Carl was still largely adjusting his game, but I thought they controlled the puck well.

 

[ODAAT]

hi bill - sorry for the delay - i'm unsure, you're probably right but it wasn't something i noticed - which of course makes the point i was trying to make wrong.

but i thought he did look sharp playing that spot on the PP.

But this third line needs to get its act together. Penguins have depth and they can roll over this line.

Am I the only one who didn't mind Carl-Kel-Jagr? I thought they could have finished more, and Carl was still largely adjusting his game, but I thought they controlled the puck well.

I liked the limited games I watched from Soderberg however, I have to think, unless there`s an injury, CJ will have him remain where he is and I`m ok with that. The team has struck a ton of good fortune with the Mini Pops on the back end, not sure that a guy who joined with only a few games left in the season, new team, new city, new system, and only started to look reasonably comfortable is ready for yet another change that the NHL playoffs presents.

No worries, I like he`s here for a few more years, and even though he`s not played, this is solid exposure to playoff hockey in the NHL. Unless things become dire (which I don`t anticipate), he`ll remain where he is

 

[Flannelman]

I liked the limited games I watched from Soderberg however, I have to think, unless there`s an injury, CJ will have him remain where he is and I`m ok with that. The team has struck a ton of good fortune with the Mini Pops on the back end, not sure that a guy who joined with only a few games left in the season, new team, new city, new system, and only started to look reasonably comfortable is ready for yet another change that the NHL playoffs presents.

No worries, I like he`s here for a few more years, and even though he`s not played, this is solid exposure to playoff hockey in the NHL. Unless things become dire (which I don`t anticipate), he`ll remain where he is

i agree, andrew - i don't see soderberg in unless there is an injury at this point.

 

[ODAAT]

i agree, andrew - i don't see soderberg in unless there is an injury at this point.

I liked him though, difference between inserting the trio of kids on the back end is experience playing NA style. But I could see a skill set that was encouraging with CS, it is pretty clear, matter of timing and chemistry coupled with the speed of the NHL game that he`ll adjust to next year.

Played more physical than I anticipated too, not a banger/crasher, but not hesitant at all to go right to the corner/front of net. Pretty refreshing stuff. I`m just not sure he`d get a bit overwhelmed with the playoffs at this stage. Round 1?? Might have been ok, round 3 against a ton of experienced Pens?? Yikes

 

[JoeIsAStud]

At this point I would largely use Jagr as a power play specialist, and only give him a couple even strength shifts a period. Double shifting Seguin and probably Pevs from time to time to play on Bergeron's wing.

I am dumfounded that Claude has Jagr out there late in games when the Bruins are ahead, as his lack of skating is so painful to watch

 

[ODAAT]

At this point I would largely use Jagr as a power play specialist, and only give him a couple even strength shifts a period. Double shifting Seguin and probably Pevs from time to time to play on Bergeron's wing.

I am dumfounded that Claude has Jagr out there late in games when the Bruins are ahead, as his lack of skating is so painful to watch

Not the perfect end of game player to have out there but I don`t see CJ putting him out there all the time, more often than not it`s our usual suspect ie: Bergy/Marchand/Soupy/Kelly/Pevs etc...

although I completely agree with your opinions about his D and skating, one thing I have noticed in our own end is that reach and big body have broken up alot of plays, still with you, rather have about a half dozen others ahead of him on the ice late but I really haven`t seen him used too often by CJ in that situation but there`s an excellent chance I`m wrong

 

[Yeti34]

At this point I would largely use Jagr as a power play specialist, and only give him a couple even strength shifts a period. Double shifting Seguin and probably Pevs from time to time to play on Bergeron's wing.

I am dumfounded that Claude has Jagr out there late in games when the Bruins are ahead, as his lack of skating is so painful to watch

Jagr has been playing fine. His lack of speed is a drawback, but he uses his size and puckhandeling abilities to make up for the lack of speed. He has been backchecking he has been making his linemates better, and he is generating chances for himself.

 

[stick9]

God help us if the Pens get the Crosby or Malkin line out against our 3rd line. Maybe Seguin needs to get bumped up to play with Krejci and Lucic. Ask Horton to play grinder for the series.

 

[stick9]

At this point I would largely use Jagr as a power play specialist, and only give him a couple even strength shifts a period. Double shifting Seguin and probably Pevs from time to time to play on Bergeron's wing.

I am dumfounded that Claude has Jagr out there late in games when the Bruins are ahead, as his lack of skating is so painful to watch

Great stick and puck awareness, but he's slow on the back-check.

 

[TMac21]

God help us if the Pens get the Crosby or Malkin line out against our 3rd line. Maybe Seguin needs to get bumped up to play with Krejci and Lucic. Ask Horton to play grinder for the series.

I agree with you, watching Peverley trying to clear a puck out of our end has been so painful these playoffs.

 

[DominicT]

At this point I would largely use Jagr as a power play specialist, and only give him a couple even strength shifts a period. Double shifting Seguin and probably Pevs from time to time to play on Bergeron's wing.

I am dumfounded that Claude has Jagr out there late in games when the Bruins are ahead, as his lack of skating is so painful to watch

Out of the blue.....

Dress 7 d-men (if Ference is a go) will also help if one of the young ones stumble

Drop Jagr to the 4th line and sit Thornton and then use Jagr on the PP and some even strength shifts. Can also double shift Horton and Seguin to fill in on the 3rd line. Use Krug primarily on the PP and on the 3rd line wing for some shifts too. With Horton/Seguin, Peverley plays center while Kelly goes to LW and with Krug, Kelly is back at center and Peverley at RW

Looch - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Kelly - Peverley- XXXX
Paille - Kelly - Jagr

Chara-Boychuck
Ference - Seids
Bartkowski - McQuaid
Krug

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

I expect to see the same lineup as game 5.

I do think Segs has looked better, and believe he's on the cusp of burying a few of his chances. If nothing else, he shoots a lot and Vokoun leaves way more rebounds than Lundqvist. He's Reimer-like in that regard.

I could see Clode swapping Segs and Jagr, and then trying to match Cara/Seids against one of the top 2 lines, and the Bergy line against the other.

As an aside, suppose at the cup parade 2 summers ago, I told you that in 2013 the B's would ice the same exact forward lines, with these exceptions: Jagr in for Recchi, Seguin in for Ryder. Would you have been happy with that?

I know it doesn't mean much, just an interesting topic of conversation is all.