Do the Wings finally have the pieces needed for a rebuild on the fly?

[Winger98]

Who cares about loser points? ROW leaders in the East:

Washington: 37
NYR, Tampa Bay: 28
Detroit, Florida: 27

They are within 4 points of being out of the playoffs but also 5 points out of first in their division. Parity is pretty high right now.


They aren't a wildcard team right now nor have they been for the vast majority of the season. Being competitive is not the same as contending. Detroit is the very definition of competitive but not contending right now. Only one team (Washington) has separated themselves from the pack, so by your definition you must think that there is literally only one competitive team in the East right now?

Yeah, looking at the East standings as a whole and a bunch of teams fit that description of being X points from missing the playoffs. If we're looking at a four point swing either way then TB, BOston, Pittsburgh, and NYI are also in danger of falling out, while NJ could slip in. Montreal and Carolina aren't far from that four point threshold on the bottom end, either.

I don't really disagree with Shaman's point about stacked defenses being preferred over a great goalie, but I think the definition of what makes a stacked D is going to slide a bit as parity becomes an increasing rule. I think a more important aspect will be having a D that fits a team philosophy. That's not to say they can suck, but that you will have to do a better job of picking your poison. Right now, we sort of default to guys who at best don't kill us on the ice. But they're not necessarily good at a whole lot, either. The Wings as a whole really seem to default to "play not to lose," which can work for you, but it's not exactly entertaining most nights.

 

[Bench]

I don't see it and I trust my eyes to Dr.Ramani.

I like Ericsson more than most here and even I think it's silly he's basically a Red Wings lifer no matter what happens. That's just not how you run a sports franchise. Add Abdelkader to that list now, as you implied. Oh well.

The Wings are actually in a great position for their "rebuild on the fly" but they could be in for an awkward transition period moving forward without Datsyuk and Zetterberg carrying the load. I mean, they are still the backbone of the offense this season. Larkin, I know, but I don't think he does nearly as well without those two holding down the center duties with him.

For every incremental upgrade they've made at other positions, the elite centers will step back. You still keep both of them as long as they can possibly play, no question there, but either the likes of Mantha need to get in the NHL and be impact players soon or this roster could see some bumpier years than we're used to. Alternatively, Holland need some hits in free agency and/or a trade. The Wings are undoubtedly a playoff team and they deserve a lot of credit for maintaining that level of the roster, but the rebuild isn't complete until you're moving to the next step of being a true contender.

 

[Winger98]

I like Ericsson more than most here and even I think it's silly he's basically a Red Wings lifer no matter what happens. That's just not how you run a sports franchise. Add Abdelkader to that list now, as you implied. Oh well.

The Wings are actually in a great position for their "rebuild on the fly" but they could be in for an awkward transition period moving forward without Datsyuk and Zetterberg carrying the load. I mean, they are still the backbone of the offense this season. Larkin, I know, but I don't think he does nearly as well without those two holding down the center duties with him.

For every incremental upgrade they've made at other positions, the elite centers will step back. You still keep both of them as long as they can possibly play, no question there, but either the likes of Mantha need to get in the NHL and be impact players soon or this roster could see some bumpier years than we're used to. Alternatively, Holland need some hits in free agency and/or a trade. The Wings are undoubtedly a playoff team and they deserve a lot of credit for maintaining that level of the roster, but the rebuild isn't complete until you're moving to the next step of being a true contender.

I don't watch many (any) Carolina games, but how has Eric Staal looked this year? There's talk the Canes don't know what to do with him yet, and he could step in and be that top2 center for us for a few years. His production this year isn't that great, but I'm not sure we're in a position to be choosers. As with anything else the cap dictates quite a bit.

 

[Bench]

I don't watch many (any) Carolina games, but how has Eric Staal looked this year? There's talk the Canes don't know what to do with him yet, and he could step in and be that top2 center for us for a few years. His production this year isn't that great, but I'm not sure we're in a position to be choosers. As with anything else the cap dictates quite a bit.

You'll get a lot of "oh hell no" with this idea, the same we heard with Phaneuf and Stamkos. Overpaid or not, these type of guys improve the roster in areas of need. You don't get any awards for making the best value roster. Ask Dave Tippett and Phoenix.

All of that said, yeah, absolutely. Staal would be a fantastic fit for the Wings to help bridge the gap of these transition years and help make the team a threat. Adding him to the top 6 would be a massive boost. His best years are behind him but that doesn't mean there isn't value there.

A top 6 next year with Larkin, Z, D, Staal in any combination looks pretty damn good to me. Then you have Abby, Tatar, Nyquist into your last 2 spots. That's a complete lineup and softens the blow moving forward when Datsyuk retires.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Eric staal is a David backes. Very very overrated

 

[Bench]

Eric staal is a David backes. Very very overrated

Big, fast top line centers don't just fall out of the sky.

If the likes of a Staal or Stamkos are on the table for the Wings, they need to jump on that like a lion that hasn't had a meal in weeks. Adding a player like that with Larkin would help so much during his prime years.

 

[TheMule93]

Big, fast top line centers don't just fall out of the sky.

If the likes of a Staal or Stamkos are on the table for the Wings, they need to jump on that like a lion that hasn't had a meal in weeks. Adding a player like that with Larkin would help so much during his prime years.

It's too bad we missed out on Ryan oriely

 

[Winger98]

Big, fast top line centers don't just fall out of the sky.

If the likes of a Staal or Stamkos are on the table for the Wings, they need to jump on that like a lion that hasn't had a meal in weeks. Adding a player like that with Larkin would help so much during his prime years.

yeah, and I'm also not sure how Backes is a bad thing as a comparison. I mean, I wouldn't exactly mind having Backes, either, on the Wings right now. we buy out Howard and Kindl, and put Franzen on LTIR, and we can probably pull off a $6-6.5m deal.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

yeah, and I'm also not sure how Backes is a bad thing as a comparison. I mean, I wouldn't exactly mind having Backes, either, on the Wings right now. we buy out Howard and Kindl, and put Franzen on LTIR, and we can probably pull off a $6-6.5m deal.

Backes is certainly intriguing if he hits the open market. Really physical and engaging player that would ease the burden on young Larkin and specifically give you a more skilled version of Abdelkader in the top 6 meaning you would have one of each on both your lines.

On a stab in the dark with strange thinking he would be a good mentor to Riley Sheahan as well they share the whole pet rescue thing.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

You need elite D to win. Wings don't have elite D. Elite D rarely hits UFA unless old and over the hill. Only way to acquire elite D is realistically the draft or a major trade (for which you'd need other high quality pieces you need to acquire through the draft)

 

[Bench]

It's too bad we missed out on Ryan oriely

Not really much of a miss. The Avalanche traded him for good pieces from Buffalo. The Wings were never going to put together an offer that good. Zadorov (16th overall), Grigorenko, (12th), J.T. Compher (35th overall) and the 31st pick. All of those guys are young and drafted in the 1st round or early 2nd, plus that pick.

A comparable from Detroit looks like Sheahan, Mantha, Sproul, and a 1st round pick. Even then I like the pieces the Avalanche got better. McGinn was in there too if you want to split hairs.

I'm pointing this out, because as I said, really good top 6 centers don't fall from the sky. We'd be lucky to be in the hunt for Backes, Staal, or Stakmos. Overpaid, overrated, declining, whatever you want to call them, those guys help this roster.

 

[Bench]

You need elite D to win. Wings don't have elite D. Elite D rarely hits UFA unless old and over the hill. Only way to acquire elite D is realistically the draft or a major trade (for which you'd need other high quality pieces you need to acquire through the draft)

Absolutely, but don't ignore other areas you can upgrade until you get to that point. Otherwise you're sitting around with your elite D going, "Gee, if only we could score more goals." Ask the Nashville Predators about that whole thing.

 

[19 for president]

Missing Ericsson and Gator.

E I think is gone but Abby I forgot. Svech I also missed.

 

[14ari13]

If this team looks like below in 3 or 4 years that is a very solid lineup.

Nyquist-Larkin-Mantha
Tatar-Sheahan-Zetterberg
Bert-AA-Jurco
Turgeon-Nasty-Glenny

Ufa/trade-Dekeyser
Green-Marchy
XO-VS

Mrazek
Ufa

Now I don't think it will look this way but the fact that I only see one huge hole is big. We really need that top pairing dman.

DeKeyser is elite.
I think you all guys are missing his talent.
He is on the level of Mrazek and Larkin.
He has 7 goals while Kronwall and Green have 7 combined, even though those 2 play PP while he does not. He is about to hit his prime. I think we have 7-8 years of his services in his prime and he is going to be very good/grea.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I also don't buy yet that Mrazek is a legit building block. A couple of years ago people would have said the same for Jimmy Howard and now he's out the picture. Let's face it with goalies, it's like you got 2-3 great ones in the league at a given time and then there's like 15 other guys who are good enough and may have the odd really good year but aren't really franchise goalies.

For a goalie to be a building block, it needs to be a Roy, a Brodeur, a Hasek or at least a Lundqvist or Luongo. Maybe Mrazek can be that but I wouldn't say I'm entirely sold on that.

DeKeyser as elite seems a stretch, too. Elite means Norris votes. I don't think anyone is even talking about him with regard to the Norris.

I think Larkin may well be a building block but that's about it as far as I can see. And he's young enough that you could do a complete rebuild and he'd still be like only 23 when you get out of it.

 

[Winger98]

Backes is certainly intriguing if he hits the open market. Really physical and engaging player that would ease the burden on young Larkin and specifically give you a more skilled version of Abdelkader in the top 6 meaning you would have one of each on both your lines.

On a stab in the dark with strange thinking he would be a good mentor to Riley Sheahan as well they share the whole pet rescue thing.

If Backes could come in and convince Sheahan to adopt that rough and tumble style, that'd be worth a lot to me. Maybe it'd rub off on Jurco, too.

I think St. Louis is a club that has to be on the verge of either going big or breaking it up a bit. They've had roughly that same group together for a few years now, they aren't getting any younger, and they haven't been able to put it all together. If they don't at the very least go on a deep run this year (at least conference finals), I think they need to not only let guys like Backes walk, but look at making a trade or two to shake things up and try a different makeup. Making the playoffs are well and good, but they're looking at SJ territory where they will be perennially a bridesmaid and never a bride, until they are looking in the mirror and seeing a fairly old and past its prime visage in the mirror.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I also don't buy yet that Mrazek is a legit building block. A couple of years ago people would have said the same for Jimmy Howard and now he's out the picture. Let's face it with goalies, it's like you got 2-3 great ones in the league at a given time and then there's like 15 other guys who are good enough and may have the odd really good year but aren't really franchise goalies.

For a goalie to be a building block, it needs to be a Roy, a Brodeur, a Hasek or at least a Lundqvist or Luongo. Maybe Mrazek can be that but I wouldn't say I'm entirely sold on that.

DeKeyser as elite seems a stretch, too. Elite means Norris votes. I don't think anyone is even talking about him with regard to the Norris.

I think Larkin may well be a building block but that's about it as far as I can see. And he's young enough that you could do a complete rebuild and he'd still be like only 23 when you get out of it.

It's cool if you don't. But everybody else including management sees him as a building block. You don't have to be on the level of Roy to carry a team to the cup finals. You just have to be good enough

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I also don't buy yet that Mrazek is a legit building block. A couple of years ago people would have said the same for Jimmy Howard and now he's out the picture. Let's face it with goalies, it's like you got 2-3 great ones in the league at a given time and then there's like 15 other guys who are good enough and may have the odd really good year but aren't really franchise goalies.

For a goalie to be a building block, it needs to be a Roy, a Brodeur, a Hasek or at least a Lundqvist or Luongo. Maybe Mrazek can be that but I wouldn't say I'm entirely sold on that.

DeKeyser as elite seems a stretch, too. Elite means Norris votes. I don't think anyone is even talking about him with regard to the Norris.

I think Larkin may well be a building block but that's about it as far as I can see. And he's young enough that you could do a complete rebuild and he'd still be like only 23 when you get out of it.

Mrazek has had an elite makeup really since he was 19. He was the key player Tatar's trophy or not on a championship team at the pro level before this. He has been exceptional internationally in this time period. For me this is much more Mrazek's arrival. He is in that next waive of goalies that do establish themselves as top 10 anchors with several top 5 seasons. I realize everyone else you named there is a HHOF, but Mrazek has had a special feel to him for quite a while. He has that it factor and has had it pretty clearly back to when he was a 19 year old.

There is a moment where guys get accepted as stars and Mrazek looks the part and really has for a while. Certainly we cannot call him a HHOF, but this just in the way he is playing is actually putting Sawchuk and Hasek as the comparable guys for numbers. It speaks to his talent at the very least. When you have to look around and the guys stacking up are the best of the best it does speak to the talent. Could he fall off a little like a Rask and just be very good or be a flash moment like Ward? Yes that is the nature of the position. Worth noting he isn't doing it behind the greatest D in the league though. All of the guys you mentioned came in the league won jobs and never looked back though like all goalies they had some rough moments to be sure. When I look at Mrazek I see an incredible talent and one with the desire to be great. He has the makeup of a special talent.

Absolutely no problem hitching our future to Larkin and Mrazek. They both appear special right down to their work ethic and pursuit of greatness. I mean we hope for the best, but we are going to need more guys pulling on the rope than just those two to achieve what we all hope. Still those are solid foundation pieces, the kinds that you should be excited about and have near limitless potential for all the right reasons.

It is a lot to put on him, but the guy he reminds me of the most is Marty Brodeur.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Optimistically maybe they are the trade bate for a top d-man?

Yeah seriously that's not happening.

 

[19 for president]

I fully believe Mrazek will be one of the top 3 goalie of his generation barring serious injury. His ego is the first goalie ego from the 90s that screams elite and unbeatable. I think he will be in the club above the Luongos, Lundys, Quicks.

Dekeyser and Larkin are the type of players you win championships with, but I don't believe either could do it without support at their position. I don't believe either are per say elite players. Stars but not superstars. Dekeyser will make the right offensive dman a Norris candidate, and Larkin will make his wingers a lot of money. I think we have those star wings but not the star dman.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I also don't buy yet that Mrazek is a legit building block. A couple of years ago people would have said the same for Jimmy Howard and now he's out the picture.

Compare Howard's pre-NHL career to Mrazek's, and show me your conclusions.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Compare Howard's pre-NHL career to Mrazek's, and show me your conclusions.

Jimmy Howard was great at Maine, Mrazek was merely good in the OHL. That's what led to Howard being drafted early whereas Mrazek was a late round pick.

Mrazek was of course considerably better in Grand Rapids in a much smaller sample.

I think Mrazek is better than Howard and I applauded Howard's demotion but I also have seen some shakiness from Mrazek that makes me wonder if he's really going to be the kind of steady high-end performer you need for a goalie to be a true building block.

 

[ricky0034]

DeKeyser is elite.
I think you all guys are missing his talent.
He is on the level of Mrazek and Larkin.
He has 7 goals while Kronwall and Green have 7 combined, even though those 2 play PP while he does not. He is about to hit his prime. I think we have 7-8 years of his services in his prime and he is going to be very good/grea.

7 goals makes him elite? come on

assists are a WAY more important stat for Defensemen and he only has 8 of them

but I guess being tied for 22nd among Defensemen in goals makes up for being tied for 102nd in assists

and i'm sure his 13.7% shooting percentage as a Defenseman is going to continue indefinitely without massive drops right? I mean that's not a ridiculous number at all and is well in line with his career average of 5.4% that includes this year

 

[lilidk]

it just Yserman had Fedorov , And Datsyuk have Zetterberg, Larkin needs 1-2 punch at the center . We have dissent wingers in the pipe , probably difference , but not at Center .

 

[TheMule93]

it just Yserman had Fedorov , And Datsyuk have Zetterberg, Larkin needs 1-2 punch at the center . We have dissent wingers in the pipe , probably difference , but not at Center .

More importantly is that Yzerman/Feds and Datsyuk/Z had Lidstrom