Do McDavid and Laine pose any threat to Sid/Ovi's legacies?

[SaltNPeca]

I'll get back to you in 10 years.

 

[Halla]

Laine doesnt even deserve to be in the convo

yeah yeah he is younger. but lets see him get 50+g and 100+ pts before talking about breaking records and such

40g/67pt average is pretty damn good, but OV averaged 54g/106pts his first 5 seasons

 

[Halla]

Wow. Pretty harsh for a guy who just turned 20. Come back in 10 years to give a fair analysis.

do you think in 10 years laine is gonna have seven 50g+ seasons, or 9 ppg+ seasons?

this thread rightfully deserves to be mocked. Laine is a lot more Kovalchuk than Ovechkin

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Laine doesnt even deserve to be in the convo

yeah yeah he is younger. but lets see him get 50+g and 100+ pts before talking about breaking records and such

40g/67pt average is pretty damn good, but OV averaged 54g/106pts his first 5 seasons

Exactly. Crosby at 20 was a better player than Laine will ever be in his career

 

[Jarey Curry]

Please enlighten me as to what strengths Laine and Ovi share. Only thing I see is shooting ability. Thats it. I would honestly love to know what else you think they share in common.

Shooting ability, big size and reach, physical play and good yet under appreciated playmaking... Have I satisfied you with enough similarities?

 

[Narow]

Remove laines 44 goals from jets and they have 229 goals...still way ahead of eichel led buffalos and equal with edmonton...not sure why that would be a bash towards laine tho.

Laines biggest value is obviously his goalscoring.... what has eichel done to outshine laine? If you are gonna say points then remember laine was ppg (rookie season) and close to it with equal games played to eichel.

He seems to be the superior skater/ playmaker tho from what i have seen.

You didn’t just say Laine was a better skater AND playmaker then Jack Eichel did you?


The Ennui in these boards sometimes, I swear......unless you're referring to Eichel in which case I apologize and there is no doubt he is. Not seems to be.


I mean, Jack Eichel IS KNOWN for his elite skating and playmakjng.Laine, not at all. It’s why Eichel was chosen as a skater at the all star game and finished only behind mcdavid and point. Within the same second as those two. His strides are incredible and was the top transition zone rush forward in the second half of 2017 season, even ahead of McSpeedster. It gets better, he had two high ankle sprains which directly effects the mobility and agility of such a well balanced athlete and it didn’t slow him down a bit. He actually performed better after them and recovered insanely quickly after both. Laine isn’t even particularly fast and has been called slow by some jets fans among others. Not sure what that was about.


And playmaker? Oh boy. Eichel has gotten over 30 assists in every season he’s ever played, (including 39’in just 67 games this year on BUFFALO) on a team that puts up so few goals as you pointed out. Thanks for that by the way as you helped my point about how little help Eichel has, especially in contrast to the Jets. You don't have to defend your guy here I'm not blindly hating on him, it's just ridiculous hearing some Jets fans dsecribe (not even remotely accurately) Eichel like they know what kind of player/ talent he is.

Then there’s the playmaking of Laine ...or the lack of it. He had only 26 assists in 82 games playing against weaker opposition (as eichel plays against teams top defenders where as the jets spread it around) playing with talent like Ehlers, little, stastny and that incredible pp unit. (Scheifele, Wheeler, Buff, I'm sure I don't have to remind you of the talent on your own team, do I? As much as you'd love me too?

You ask what he’s done to be considered ahead, well how about Eichel putting up 121 pts in his last 128 games ....with those linemates (Girgensens/Rodrigues and aging Pominville) and that teAm in contrast to why Laine has.The last two years battling these injuries has been tough but being on a worse team that doesent help him one bit is tougher. Laine has the opposite situation. Eichel in these seasons has put up 57 points in 61 games, then 64 in 67 playing in games where his team has given up, he’s got no help and they can’t stop a puck. Must be frustrating.

I can comprehend that it’s probably hard for the average hockey fan who doesen't see enough of Buffalo to realize what’s there with JE, but you’d think the stats would? Maybe you guys will see a better one in the next couple years and you won’t have to ask? The other guy stopped replying when I told him all this, I don’t mean to be pretentious but the two things you named you couldn’t of been further off on.

I’m not saying Laine is bad but he’s not even a top three player on his team.

I mean one player is a second line winger who’s mostly known for his shot on a great team wth great players and the other is a franchise center with no weaknesses in his overall game.

The team can’t score without eichel and winiipeg doesent even need Laine to win games.

Almost all of eichels points are both primary and even strength too.

So either way there's no seems to be about it.

He is conclusively better ast both.

Before you get all riled up i was actually meaning to say that eichel is superior in skating and playmaking.... sorry for not being clear enough. Now ill read the rest of your message.


Oh and if you want to evaluate playmaking on only points (sounds like what you are doing) it doesnt seem quite fair when comparing to laine as laines shooting ability is so overpowered that it doesnt make sense to have him as a playmaker. Anyways if you see laine enough youd know passing and setting up teammates is actually a strength of his aswell even tho i agree that he doesnt rack up assists. He is still a bit "shy" with his shots and picking his shots a but lore than needed but is improving. Low chance shots for other players is medium to high chance for laine which makes him so dangerous as he can also pass in such situation or catch your goalie sleeping.

Also almost half of eichels assists wete on the PP last season will you hold that as a negative like you do with laines goal distribution?

17 of 39 assists on the pp vs 20 of 44 goals on the pp.

43.58% vs 45.45% ^^

Stay consistent now.

 

[Bluto]

Threat? Did Crosby and Ovie hurt Gretzky and Lemieux's legacies?
McDavid and Laine are the next generation.... Malkin hurt Crosby's legacy more than McDavid ever will.

 

[kelsier]

I don't think past generational talents or players will lose any value by the coming of the next generation players. I'm sure a lot of hockey fans will love to toy with the thought of there being a new pair of Sid & Ovy in McDavid & Laine.

With that said, it's atrocious how people are jumping at Laine mainly (I suspect) due to their own young superstar being disregarded in the topic. How this everytime torches some of the people here is just beyond me. I always find it a bit childish, but then again that's just another day at the HFBoards. Personally I fully expect McDavid to continue his career in a similar fashion and domination that Crosby displayed and at the same time nothing so far indicates that Laine couldn't reach Ovy's level as a goal scorer. In fact comparing age to age accomplishments I would say the exact opposite. Guess the only difference is the era. Now there's greater amount of young elite goal scorers in the league than in the past, so winning Rockets won't be as easy.

 

[Narow]

Laine doesnt even deserve to be in the convo

yeah yeah he is younger. but lets see him get 50+g and 100+ pts before talking about breaking records and such

40g/67pt average is pretty damn good, but OV averaged 54g/106pts his first 5 seasons

Not that i think laine will beat that pr be very close but to be fair ovechkin had 0 goals at the same age and just starting his nhl career so theoretically laine can rival him if you go by age. Again i dont find it likely but if the refs call pp like they did in ovis first few seasons id think it would be tougher to predict. Ovi was pretty beast at both 5v5 and pp tho. I think laine would have to play with scheifele to realistically rival ovi but even then im not certain about it at all just giving him bigger odds.

We will just have to wait and see how laine developes and is utilized the coming years.

 

[Spirit of 67]

A player's legacy is based on what they did.

Not what anyone else did.

 

[Riddum]

Crosby and Ovi are in no way, shape or form, better than Jagr.

Look at the stats from Sid and Ovi's first 3 years (Which includes both their absolute Peak season) and a Washed up Jagr's last 3 NHL, years before his come back from Russia.

Jagr: GP 246 109G 181A 290PTS
Sid:GP 213 99G 195A 294PTS
Ovi: GP 245 163G 147A 310PTS

We are talking about a Jagr that was a complete shell of his former self. A Young Jagr would have score 400 pts in the same span. Young Jagr would have been a perennial Art Ross winner in this weak era.

And if McDavid wins the Art Ross again, next season, he will already be superior to both Sid and Ovi.

Sid and Ovi are the 2 most overrated superstars in the history of the league. A healthy Malkin is better than both. Malkin was better than both players this year but no one is talking about Malkin.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Sid and Ovi are the 2 most overrated superstars in the history of the league. A healthy Malkin is better than both. Malkin was better than both players this year but no one is talking about Malkin.

I'm not even a Penguins fan but Crosby is better and more consistent than Evgeni Malkin sorry.

 

[Voight]

McDavid has already equaled Sid in scoring titles, is 1 behind in Hart + Pearson trophy, and two behind in goal scoring titles.

I think he will surpass Crosby in individual awards, and could also win at least two Gold Medals on his own but legacy wise it will be hard.

 

[Bluto]

I'm not even a Penguins fan but Crosby is better and more consistent than Evgeni Malkin sorry.

I don't know man when Malkin is healthy he takes over games and almost single handedly keeps the puck in the offensive zone. Crosby is great, don't get me wrong, but the Penguins win when Malkin is healthy. He changes the entire dynamic of the team. Malkin draws more penalties, commits less turnovers and as a Ranger's fan, I get fearful when Malkin enters the offensive zone. Crosby I view as more of an opportunist viper. He scores and gets primary assists through tiny split second windows. Malkin is the kind of guy who creates those windows.

 

[ricky0034]

i'd be pretty surprised if McDavid doesn't have a clearly better career than Crosby at this point when it's all said and done

he's been in the league 3 seasons so far and they already have the same amount of Art Rosses

Laine? nah I just don't see it,I don't see him winning 7 Rockets and he can't even beat a 32 year old Ovechkin for it which is pretty old when it comes to scoring goals

 

[kihei]

Let's hope so. That's what sport is all about.

 

[Fear]

A player's legacy is based on what they did.

Not what anyone else did.

A players legacy can be hurt by what his contemporaries do, like Brad Park coming second to Bobby Orr for the Norris like 5 times.
In this way McDavid might hurt the legacy of Laine, Eichel, Matthews, etc.

But he can't hurt the legacy of guys 10 years his senior

 

[Riddum]

I'm not even a Penguins fan but Crosby is better and more consistent than Evgeni Malkin sorry.

2017-2018

Malkin:GP78 42G 56A 98PTS
Crosby:GP82 29G 60A 89PTS
Ovechkin:GP82 49G 38A 87PTS

Malkin was CLEARLY better than both but he gets no love because people only care about Sid, Ovi and McDavid.

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

Shooting ability, big size and reach, physical play and good yet under appreciated playmaking... Have I satisfied you with enough similarities?

no, i want an art ross in the next 3 years
Sid got a ross in his first couple years, so did mcdavid, so did ovi...we are waiting for one guy
BTW laine was 7th on his team in points per 60 minutes as ES (100 mins played). SEVENTH! Six guys were more efficient than laine at producing points when both teams have the same number of players. SEVEN, and people are going to sit here and compare him to ovi...lmao


These are the six guys ahead of him on his own team (p/60 at ES):
Roslovic
Connor
Scheifle
Lowry
Ehlers
Wheeler
Stastny

 

[SkinsFan09]

2017-2018

Malkin:GP78 42G 56A 98PTS
Crosby:GP82 29G 60A 89PTS
Ovechkin:GP82 49G 38A 87PTS

Malkin was CLEARLY better than both but he gets no love because people only care about Sid, Ovi and McDavid.

Okay that was one season - let's look at their entire careers.

 

[Riddum]

Okay that was one season - let's look at their entire careers.

Sadly, Geno is injury prone.
78
62
57
69
60
31 (still missed 17 games in the lockout year)

These are the amounts of games played in each of the last 6 seasons.

Look at Geno's stats when he plays over 70 games though.

 

[pi314]

I'm pretty sure that more than one hockey player can have a legacy.

 

[Chain Attack]

Look at the stats from Sid and Ovi's first 3 years (Which includes both their absolute Peak season) and a Washed up Jagr's last 3 NHL, years before his come back from Russia.
Jagr: GP 246 109G 181A 290PTS
Sid:GP 213 99G 195A 294PTS
Ovi: GP 245 163G 147A 310PTS
We are talking about a Jagr that was a complete shell of his former self. A Young Jagr would have score 400 pts in the same span. Young Jagr would have been a perennial Art Ross winner in this weak era.

2005-2006 was an outstanding season for Jagr by his own standards. He won the Ted Lindsey award and was a Jonathan Cheechoo fluke away from winning his first Maurice Richard trophy. You can’t fault Ovie and Sid for not being at that level in their rookie seasons. That is what you are ignoring in your 3 year sample size. It took Jagr 8 years to establish himself as the best player in the game.

 

[DanM]

Again, Ovechkin at the age Laine is now, had only played in RSL. I know, I followed his junior years.

I have also followed Laine and he has had OV beat 17,18,19 years old. Don't see any reason it's not going to continue at 20 as well.

Know your facts before you comment with such certainty and conviction.

Laine is the best european 18 year old ever to enter the league in points. He beat Jagrs record. Ovechkin started in the NHL as draft+3 because of the lockout. Next season is draft+3 for Laine

Ovie is a completely different player, he was and still is a force on the ice. For years he hit like a truck and was just a BEAST in ever facet of the game. Just the way he skates alone, enters the zone, and breaks down the D (especially when he was young) is something Laine doesn't have in his game.

Plus add in the sheer volume of shots Ovie took, and this is no contest.

I love Laine as a young player, he will score some goals, but he will not be the package of player that Ovie was and is, and no NHL teenage highlights, or LIGA legacy will change that.

However, if I am wrong, I am the type of person that will eat crow and accept it, but I feel pretty confident on this one.

Alex Ovechkin is a BEAST

 

[Kaako Kappo]

no, i want an art ross in the next 3 years
Sid got a ross in his first couple years, so did mcdavid, so did ovi...we are waiting for one guy
BTW laine was 7th on his team in points per 60 minutes as ES (100 mins played). SEVENTH! Six guys were more efficient than laine at producing points when both teams have the same number of players. SEVEN, and people are going to sit here and compare him to ovi...lmao


These are the six guys ahead of him on his own team (p/60 at ES):
Roslovic
Connor
Scheifle
Lowry
Ehlers
Wheeler
Stastny

Out of which you can remove Niku (1 gp) and Roslovic (31 gp).

People compare Laine to Ovi in goal scoring.