Do McDavid and Laine pose any threat to Sid/Ovi's legacies?

[Psych0dad]

exactly. age means nothing in sports when you are using it in an argument of experience. any objective and competent person will easily side with the experience.

You are wrong.

 

[1specter]

McDavid yes.

Laine? LOL

 

[illpucks]

Lol good one.

Do a poll
Crosby vs Sakic or Crosby vs Yzerman
right now in the poll section and we'll see the results

 

[Foppberg]

Do a poll
Crosby vs Sakic or Crosby vs Yzerman
right now in the poll section and we'll see the results

I don't care

 

[TheAngryHank]

Bret Hull
Sakic (This guy had so many variations of shots in his toolbox)
Bobby Hull
Kovy
Ovie (Can't argue with production and power of shot)
Stamkos pre injury was lethal
Tarasenko (best wrist/snap shot in the league)
Russian Rocket (Pavel)

I could go on and on.

Ever watch Mike Bossy play? or any of the great shooters of all time?

Don't even get me started on the full arsenals of guys like Mario lol He can embarrasses anybody with a snipe from any angle.

I have also seen you say Laine will be a "more skilled Yagr" or a "in better shape Mario", and compared Laine to him skill wise. You my friend are in for a world of disappointment if you believe he is better than those type of greats.

What about Charas howitzer ?

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Knew this would be an @illpucks thread

 

[Jordan Belfort]

I don't care

IMO id say sackic > Crosby by a very slim margin

 

[TheAngryHank]

Sakic was great

I do wonder how great Sid would have truly been, if his prime was not stolen by injuries.

Stolen? Lol did an ambulance mysteriously abduct him?

 

[jepjepjoo]

Take a wild guess if I care about what has value to you. I don't post comments and debate in the hopes you validate my replies. I do it because I think you're wrong.

Which stats? You're reply to me was, "I watched ovie quite a bit in team Russia back then" and that 13 goals didn't suggest he could score in the nhl. That's the definition of the eye test, you hypocrite. Unless you are trying to have the same argument as the other guy, where you superimpose RSL stats from a far inferior team to guestimate his nhl totals.

Here is a fact - Laine ain't never gonna win a hart trophy, because he will never be the guy. It's always going to be Scheifele's team. Ovechkin will always have the better trophy case and statistical career, this after joining a year later and enjoying 1.5 lockouts. Laine will also never be anywhere near Crosby or McDavid. I like the kid and I like the Jets, but people in this thread need to wake up and realize that's a pipe dream, his game just isn't developed that way. He might have a couple of 90ish seasons, but I cant see him peaking as high as these 3 players, can you??? Based on the hype in this thread, he needs to win the Rocket this year. If he loses again to Ovechkin, that's a massive blow to his legacy. He won't be winning rockets at 32/33, if he can't win them at 20/21 with only a few current young rivals.

OV didn't win any Rockets at 20/21.

18 year old Laine finishes 7th in goals, 4th in G/gp
20 year old Ovechkin finishes 3rd in goals behind Cheechoo and Jagr(33yo). 5th in G/gp

19 year old Laine finishes 2nd in goals behind Ovechkin(32yo), 3rd in G/gp
21 year old Ovechkin finishes 4th in goals behind Lecavalier, Heatley and Selanne(36yo), 5th in G/gp

 

[filinski77]

I'm an analyst, so to me time is just a data point. It's a measure of distance. Where was this player at this distance, where was the other one.

You can add some magical qualities to it like "how experience is more valuable" but nothing quantifies that and hockey analysts disagree with it.

Find me 5 credible hockey analysts (Not from Canada at all to stay clear of any Canadian Biases) that think Laine will be the best player in the NHL one day (considering that you're an analyst and all, and you certainly wouldn't say that unless your analyzing leads you to believe Laine > McDavid)

Also don't forget that the analytics community does NOT = Hockey analysts. People like Bob Mackenzie for example (albeit Canadian), understands and respects analytics, but knows that there's much more to hockey than advanced stats etc.

 

[Foppberg]

IMO id say sackic > Crosby by a very slim margin

I would too but I'm biased. Regardless they're all pretty close to each other so nobody would be 'dwarfing' anybody.

Not unless you include Chara or Buff.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

I would too but I'm biased. Regardless they're all pretty close to each other so nobody would be 'dwarfing' anybody.

Not unless you include Chara or Buff.

I think the 90s era was the best hockey I have ever seen. The stars of today wouldn’t touch those guys back in their primes. Sackic, Yzerman, Mario, Hull, would all over shadow the Crosby/Ovi/ mcdavids of today in my opinion.

 

[kuzy92]

20 year old Ovechkin couldn't beat 33 year old Jagr
21 year Ovechkin couldn't beat 36 year old Selanne

^Troll alert^

 

[TheAngryHank]

I think the 90s era was the best hockey I have ever seen. The stars of today wouldn’t touch those guys back in their primes. Sackic, Yzerman, Mario, Hull, would all over shadow the Crosby/Ovi/ mcdavids of today in my opinion.

Agreed.

 

[jepjepjoo]

^Troll alert^

Sorry, what?

This whole board went down the drain after Fitzpatrick

 

[Psych0dad]

Find me 5 credible hockey analysts (Not from Canada at all to stay clear of any Canadian Biases) that think Laine will be the best player in the NHL one day (considering that you're an analyst and all, and you certainly wouldn't say that unless your analyzing leads you to believe Laine > McDavid)

Also don't forget that the analytics community does NOT = Hockey analysts. People like Bob Mackenzie for example (albeit Canadian), understands and respects analytics, but knows that there's much more to hockey than advanced stats etc.

If I had claimed that many hockey analysts think Laine will be better than McDavid, then I would need to find you such examples.

I never made that claim, so I have no interest or need in defending it either. It's a straw man.

 

[kuzy92]

Yeah Laine will never have the overall game of any of the others. He's an awful skater, slow, soft and his passing ability is a complete joke. He'll never put up Points like McDavid or have a complete 2 way game with leadership and cup winning ability like Matthews. But with Ovechkin declining Laine will most likely be the best goal scorer with a huge margin going forward over the next 10-15 years.

Ovechkin is declining? Could have fooled me..

 

[third man in]

OV didn't win any Rockets at 20/21.

18 year old Laine finishes 7th in goals, 4th in G/gp
20 year old Ovechkin finishes 3rd in goals behind Cheechoo and Jagr(33yo). 5th in G/gp

19 year old Laine finishes 2nd in goals behind Ovechkin(32yo), 3rd in G/gp
21 year old Ovechkin finishes 4th in goals behind Lecavalier, Heatley and Selanne(36yo), 5th in G/gp

Laine was at best the 3rd forward on his team, Ovechkin was carrying a horrible team in their 1st season of a rebuild as a rookie. Ovechkin played with Chris Clark on his line for those two seasons. Laine probably had better linemates last year than Ovechkin had his first two years. With the added benefit of not being keyed in on by top pairings.

 

[jepjepjoo]

Laine was at best the 3rd forward on his team, Ovechkin was carrying a horrible team in their 1st season of a rebuild as a rookie. Ovechkin played with Chris Clark on his line for those two seasons. Laine probably had better linemates last year than Ovechkin had his first two years. With the added benefit of not being keyed in on by top pairings.

Your inability to read quotes astonishes me... Both times I even highlighted the parts I was replying to

 

[Psych0dad]

Laine was at best the 3rd forward on his team, Ovechkin was carrying a horrible team in their 1st season of a rebuild as a rookie. Ovechkin played with Chris Clark on his line for those two seasons. Laine probably had better linemates last year than Ovechkin had his first two years. With the added benefit of not being keyed in on by top pairings.

Ovechkin had a better center than current Brian Little. And he played first line minutes and almost unlimited PP time. Had Laine played similar PP minutes with his PP efficiency, he would have crushed OVs numbers as already shown in this discussion.

Scheifele is maybe better than Laine at the moment but when they played together Laine was slightly more productive. They are the best two players in the Jets. Scheifele of course in his prime and Laine far away from his. So he was at least in top 2.

 

[Plural]

Because you want to get the comparison right so you can assess what kind of player it is and what he is capable of in the future.

Development is not that simple. You can develop as a human into your body, and you can develop your skills as a player. Trust me, Ovechkin was not training in figure skating while he was a teenager. He was playing against men in the Russian league trying to become the best player he can be.

NHL experience does have it's advantages but it's not that big of a deal. These guys have been playing hockey for all their lives.

My proposal stands, if you want to dig deep into an advantage contest, I'm all for it.

I'm starting to understand where you're coming from. In the light of all context, I have no qualms if you think Laine's third is a good comparable to OV's rookie season.

I don't see a lot of value in that comparison since OV seemingly hit his prime straight from the gates and Laine might take three, four or even five seasons to hit his.

We'll see in few years how close he'll get. Even if he doesn't match OV's rookie performance next season it doesn't mean he cant get to his level at some point.

I still don't think he'll end up as good, let alone better. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

I think people need to remove Laine from the greatness category. He’s a good player, but he’s not an era-defining player.

 

[Psych0dad]

I think people need to remove Laine from the greatness category. He’s a good player, but he’s not an era-defining player.

I guess we will have to wait and see.

Fantastic start though, looks era defining.

 

[Hasa92]

People write off Laine way too easy, he is a flawed player and not even a top2 player in his team however he has been able to score around 40 goals twice already, Ovechkin at Laine's age didn't even play at the league yet.

I know it's stupid to bring up the age factor with young and unproven players but Laine isn't unproven, Laine already has shown that he is an elite goalscorer and he is only going to get better. Basically Laine already has the best overall shooting ability in the league, he only needs to improve his overall game, mainly his skating and strength, if he even becomes 3-5% better at those things he very well could challenge McDavid and that is not a stretch, if you disagree you are delusional or don't know what Laine already is, yes he is far from perfect but you can bet your ass that Winnipeg's couching staff is focusing mainly on developing Laine's game, he has the potential to become the greatest goal scorer ever and he is already on a good pace.

 

[Psych0dad]

I literally gave a list of the greatest shooters and scorers off all time, a list that includes Mario, Bobby and Brett, Bossy, and so on. The poster literally said they all pale in comparison

Because they do. None of them had his accuracy and velocity combination. Some of them more slap shot specialists etc.

I would say Mario, Kovy and Stamkos are the closest to Laine in the full array of shooting but he has advantages over them. Measurable ones.

I'm not fooled by nostalgia. The 80s superstars are in pretty much every way in a big disadvantage to today's players. Stick technology, sport evolution....level of competition is higher and continues to increase. They were great shooters for their era. Today a guy like Jeff Skinner has a better arsenal than many of the people mentioned.

Patrik Laine certainly does.