Do McDavid and Laine pose any threat to Sid/Ovi's legacies?

[Plub]

No. It's pretty simple. Neither one of them is as good as OV or Sid.

 

[John Matthews]

Now that Ovi has his cup and Smythe both Sid and Ovi have their legacies locked down. But the worrying thing is a player like Jagr who won 5 art Rosses in a row loses to Sid now very clearly on the polls. Jagr despite everything he did has almost been replaced by Sid in the eyes of the new generation. But the players are different enough that Sid can not damage Jagr's legacy even if some seem him as better.

McDavid and Laine's favorite players are Sid and Ovi. They play a similar style to them. Is there a chance that Ovi and Sid will be looked at as unremarkable in the future because they are dwarfed by Laine and McDavid? Is there a chance that their legacies will crumble? Or are they safe? Or just Ovi? Or just Sid?

literally zero. Ovi is miles ahead of Laine, the people trying to compare them are just silly.

 

[bionic]

If Laine rounds out his game a bit more (which is likely considering his attitude) and Maurice plays him higher than the third line he might reach similar success as Ovi.

Him getting second line ice time is unlikely though due to PM's love for Bryan Little with whom Patrik does not click with at all.

If you move Laine up in the lineup he's also going to be facing tougher competition and top pairings on Defense. He fell into a great situation in Winnipeg with all the talent around him on that team he gets a lot of support, support others his age don't get and to his credit he is taking advantage of the situation.

 

[goblin3]

literally zero. Ovi is miles ahead of Laine, the people trying to compare them are just silly.

Well Laine is ahead by 80 goals when we compare him to same age Ovi.

 

[DRW204]

If Laine rounds out his game a bit more (which is likely considering his attitude) and Maurice plays him higher than the third line he might reach similar success as Ovi.

Him getting second line ice time is unlikely though due to PM's love for Bryan Little with whom Patrik does not click with at all.

Laine plays 3rd line? since when

he's 5th in Avg toi for Fwds on the Jets and #2 for his position.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Laine plays 3rd line? since when

he's 5th in Avg toi for Fwds on the Jets and #2 for his position.

I had to chuckle a little. Everyone knows teams game plan for Laine and Ehlers and whomever the Center is for them, as the #2nd line. Not sure where this nonsense of Laine being on the 3rd line is coming from?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Is there a more defensive bunch than Laine fans?

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Eichell could be pretty good stick holder for Laine, not more. Laine is faster, stronger, more intelligent and far more beautiful than Jack Eichell. Did I mention younger as well?

Laine couldn’t lace jacks skates.

He would be a complete flop in buffalo, where as eichel has gone point per game on his last 130, if jack was on the jets top
Six....Winnipeg would probably win the cup.

 

[DRW204]

People write off Laine way too easy, he is a flawed player and not even a top2 player in his team however he has been able to score around 40 goals twice already, Ovechkin at Laine's age didn't even play at the league yet.

I know it's stupid to bring up the age factor with young and unproven players but Laine isn't unproven, Laine already has shown that he is an elite goalscorer and he is only going to get better. Basically Laine already has the best overall shooting ability in the league, he only needs to improve his overall game, mainly his skating and strength, if he even becomes 3-5% better at those things he very well could challenge McDavid and that is not a stretch, if you disagree you are delusional or don't know what Laine already is, yes he is far from perfect but you can bet your ass that Winnipeg's couching staff is focusing mainly on developing Laine's game, he has the potential to become the greatest goal scorer ever and he is already on a good pace.

I love Laine and am a Jets fan, but him challenging McDavid will require more than 3%-5% betterment. He'll challenge Matthews with that. But McDavid is on a whole other level.

 

[DRW204]

Laine couldn’t lace jacks skates.

He would be a complete flop in buffalo, where as eichel has gone point per game on his last 130, if jack was on the jets top
Six....Winnipeg would probably win the cup.

Do you have bat signal for when Eichel gets mentioned on HFBoards?

 

[third man in]

Well Laine is ahead by 80 goals when we compare him to same age Ovi.

Oh yeah. Let's punish Ovechkin for the lockout when he was clearly NHL ready when he was drafted.

 

[goblin3]

Oh yeah. Let's punish Ovechkin for the lockout when he was clearly NHL ready when he was drafted.

No one is punishing Ovi for anything. The lockout happened, that's a fact. Laine has a 80 goal head start on Ovi, that's a fact.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

If the category is skating.

He will not be as good of a skater as McDavid is. But I am betting on the overall impact on winning.

Laine has a lethal shot.

Your betting on him being better then mcdavid because of overall impact? What does that even mean. If you mean overall talent mcdavid the is Laine in every category except his shot.

If you mean by winning, Laine is on a much better team and has won one more series then mcdavid.

I honesty find it comical jets fans are backing Laine so much when they have three better players. A simple minded fan looks at a goal total and goes wowwww. Don’t get me wrong it’s damn impresssove but he has the most my lucrative spot then any other young player he’s compared to from who he faces on the ice to linemates to power play times and the elite talent to a dominant team.

If you were to switch Laine with Barlow on Florida or Matthews pre Tavares on the leafs or win eichel in buffalo, or mcdavid in Edmonton I doubt his numbers are even close to as good as they are, he has been shielded by the team he’s on and by the whole teenager crap when he’s been an adult for three years. And by his success I mean goals....(and only goals because 26 assists in a full 82 game .schedule is kind of brutal especially on that line and that team)

Not hating He is pretty damn impressive at scoring goals. And what else? I have yet to see very much else pointed out

At Xmas during his first 8 game goalless steak I saw s couple jets fans agree he wasn’t a top six forward on there team. I think they meannt playing like though because it’s hard to argue anyone else over him for that spot. Oh but now he’s better then the best player in the game and going to have a greater impact then one of

The best two players of the past fifteen years..


Mcdavid is a one of a kind talent.

Laine is just another kovakchuck type which isn’t a bad thing.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Do you have bat signal for when Eichel gets mentioned on HFBoards?

Yup it lights up.

I haven’t been on these forums in almost two days and my notification brought me here and I saw this so I replied. Calm yourself lol.

 

[DRW204]

Oh yeah. Let's punish Ovechkin for the lockout when he was clearly NHL ready when he was drafted.

No doubt...Ovie has +18 in goals and +64 in pts in his first 2 seasons vs Laine. Ovie's rookie year (if people want to compare his rookie to Laine's upcoming 3rd year) he had 50+Gs and 100+pts, +29G's and +49Pts on the next player on his team (his C's were Halpern and Zubrus, just lol).

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Also while Laine is a very accurate passer I highly doubt he is more accurate than McDavid is in any aspect.

Yeah didn’t you know that a guy with over 150 assists in two seasons on a bleh team is a worse passer then a guy who gets 26 assists In 82 games playing with ehlers stastny little and on PP scheifele Wheeler buff Connor.

There’s hardly even a case that Laine is a better passer then McD ...it’s absolutely ridiculous to even suggest.

It’s not all about assists though anyone that sees just a few games of the oilers knows mcDs passing is elite. Back handed spin o Rama’s flying up the wing, it’s magical.



I believe People want Laine to be great that’s the thing here. They wish his overall game was great because then he would be among the best of the best but I think he’s actually a tier below the schefiele, barkov, Matthews eich, one ...not by a lot just a mini tier below, sort of like mcdavid is a mini tier above that one.

He’s not in the horvat tier which would be below the Laine one imo.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

These have nothing to do with what year is fairer when comparing the starts to their respective careers.

It's not Ovechkins fault that around the same age Laine has not physicall matured into his 'big frame', Mcdavid has an injury and bounced back perfectly fine, and era of scoring has nothing to do when comparing simply what year to start these comparisons.

The natural comparison is the season they could have earliest possibly played in the NHL, but since Ovechkin could not in 2004, then obviously it's fair to compare Laine's second season to Ovi's first. Saying it should now be Laine's 3rd season only gives Laine age (which is what you were complaining about with regards to the normal comparison) and even more NHL experience, which is the most useful thing.

Wheeler was around 28/29 and Scheifele was around 23 years old when they started becoming elite NHL players, you can't say that they weren't 'physically mature', so what's the difference? NHL experience.

Hell Mackinnon even took 5 seasons of NHL experience to break out and utilize his skills, a few months of AGE difference has nothing to do with it.

I see your point but IMO Mackinnon, the jury is still out on him. One great season in a ton of tries doesent make you elite it as amazing though should he say crack 85 and then at least 75-80 the next year then sure. I’d orobably consider him elite even if e just hits the 85 this upcoming year but some like waiting longer.

I think hall also had a career yeAr I expect t both guys to be less as well as there
Teams this season.

 

[third man in]

No doubt...Ovie has +18 in goals and +64 in pts in his first 2 seasons vs Laine. Ovie's rookie year (if people want to compare his rookie to Laine's upcoming 3rd year) he had 50+Gs and 100+pts, +29G's and +49Pts on the next player on his team (his C's were Halpern and Zubrus, just lol).

Yes I strongly doubt that Laine's 3rd season will out produce Ovechkins rookie year. 52G 106pts

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Is there a more defensive bunch than Laine fans?

Laine's the greatest 60 goal scorer in NHL history who has never scored 60 goals.

 

[Psych0dad]

Yes I strongly doubt that Laine's 3rd season will out produce Ovechkins rookie year. 52G 106pts

That's why analytical people understand the need for era adjustment. The amount of PP time was completely disproportionate comparing to todays hockey. Icetime matters a lot too.

It's about their pace, how much positive impact they make with the minutes they get.

 

[DanM]

That's why analytical people understand the need for era adjustment. The amount of PP time was completely disproportionate comparing to todays hockey. Icetime matters a lot too.

It's about their pace, how much positive impact they make with the minutes they get.

This actually makes some sense. I will give you that.

Last year discounting the 20 games missed because of injury, Matthews was like 130th or something silly in ice time for top line players, and got second unit PP time.

If he didn't get injured, and played 1st unit PP and 20-21 mins per night, I can't even imagine the points. 63 points in 61 games even with crap ice time and PP time.

So yes it does matter, and I believe Laine has also been moved around with ice time and linemates. I still don't believe he is Ovie, but you have a few points there with ice time.

 

[Psych0dad]

He isn't Ovie. He is Laine. Different style of play.

 

[DanM]

Yeah didn’t you know that a guy with over 150 assists in two seasons on a bleh team is a worse passer then a guy who gets 26 assists In 82 games playing with ehlers stastny little and on PP scheifele Wheeler buff Connor.

There’s hardly even a case that Laine is a better passer then McD ...it’s absolutely ridiculous to even suggest.

It’s not all about assists though anyone that sees just a few games of the oilers knows mcDs passing is elite. Back handed spin o Rama’s flying up the wing, it’s magical.



I believe People want Laine to be great that’s the thing here. They wish his overall game was great because then he would be among the best of the best but I think he’s actually a tier below the schefiele, barkov, Matthews eich, one ...not by a lot just a mini tier below, sort of like mcdavid is a mini tier above that one.

He’s not in the horvat tier which would be below the Laine one imo.

I like seeing Eichel and Matty play the game. It's too bad both had some injury time, if they stay healthy, and have free reign, top line PP time and mins in general, these are my two picks (along with McDavid) as the top players going forward, for now.

 

[jepjepjoo]

That's why analytical people understand the need for era adjustment. The amount of PP time was completely disproportionate comparing to todays hockey. Icetime matters a lot too.

It's about their pace, how much positive impact they make with the minutes they get.

"Laine is a PP specialist"

Comparing rookie seasons:

Age on the first game day
Crosby 18yo 59d
Laine 18yo 177d
Ovechkin 20yo 18d

PP opportunities
WSH 05-06 495
PIT 05-06 490
WPG 16-17 264

PP TOI
Ovechkin 544:33
Crosby 459:15
Laine 199:18

PP production
Crosby 81GP 16G 31A 47PTS
Ovechkin 81GP 21G 31A 52PTS
Laine 73GP 9G 5A 14PTS

PP TOI needed for a goal
Laine 22:09
Ovechkin 25:56
Crosby 28:42

PP TOI needed for a point
Crosby 9:46
Ovechkin 10:28
Laine 14:16

EV TOI
Ovechkin 1,140:57
Crosby 1,119:25
Laine 1,106:54

EV production
Crosby 81GP 23G 30A 53PTS
Ovechkin 81GP 28G 23A 51PTS
Laine 73GP 27G 23A 50PTS

EV TOI needed for a goal
Ovechkin 40:45
Laine 40:59
Crosby 48:40

EV TOI needed for a point
Crosby 21:07
Laine 22:08
Ovechkin 22:22

Seems like the only difference in production is PP time.

 

[Psych0dad]

"Laine is a PP specialist"

Comparing rookie seasons:

Age on the first game day
Crosby 18yo 59d
Laine 18yo 177d
Ovechkin 20yo 18d

PP opportunities
WSH 05-06 495
PIT 05-06 490
WPG 16-17 264

PP TOI
Ovechkin 544:33
Crosby 459:15
Laine 199:18

PP production
Crosby 81GP 16G 31A 47PTS
Ovechkin 81GP 21G 31A 52PTS
Laine 73GP 9G 5A 14PTS

PP TOI needed for a goal
Laine 22:09
Ovechkin 25:56
Crosby 28:42

PP TOI needed for a point
Crosby 9:46
Ovechkin 10:28
Laine 14:16

EV TOI
Ovechkin 1,140:57
Crosby 1,119:25
Laine 1,106:54

EV production
Crosby 81GP 23G 30A 53PTS
Ovechkin 81GP 28G 23A 51PTS
Laine 73GP 27G 23A 50PTS

EV TOI needed for a goal
Ovechkin 40:45
Laine 40:59
Crosby 48:40

EV TOI needed for a point
Crosby 21:07
Laine 22:08
Ovechkin 22:22

Seems like the only difference in production is PP time.