Post-Game Talk: DJ Smith leads Leafs to another defensive blunder leafs lose 4-3

[Throw More Waffles]

No. I have no clue what yout talking about

What the hell do you mean?

I'm just saying things can't go both ways.

A lot of people are saying Matthews has put up "elite" numbers this year. But that only includes his inflated numbers from his first 11 games that you call "shinny". So what is it? Are his numbers elite this season, or not?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Switch goalies and the Leafs win 8-2.
Andersen better be back soon.

They score more with Andersen?

 

[ACC1224]

They score more with Andersen?

Not sure, seems like a random question.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

4. A Wild run
Minnesota arrives in Toronto trying to put a difficult month of December firmly in the past. Staring with a loss on Dec. 1 at home against the Leafs, the Wild went 4-8-1 and has scored just 10 goals in its past seven games.

And they get 4 vs the Leafs.

Ouch.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Not sure, seems like a random question.

Seems like a random answer

 

[Nineteen67]

What the hell do you mean?

I'm just saying things can't go both ways.

A lot of people are saying Matthews has put up "elite" numbers this year. But that only includes his inflated numbers from his first 11 games that you call "shinny". So what is it? Are his numbers elite this season, or not?

I don’t care what people say. You’d have to ask them if they think his numbers are elite.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Ok.
So let's take your world.

We pay all leaf players based on how many goals/points they'd put up playing 1st line minutes with Bergeron and Marchand. Under that line of reasoning, how much would you give Kapanen? Johnsson? Remember. YOUR argument is we pay on potential. maybe they'll be as good as Pastrnak in the future. So give them Pastrnak money, right?

Let me make this clear, since it isn't clear yet (Read it to the end). In today's NHL, the most effective strategy is as follows:
- You pay your superstar young players based on potential (reasonably) and keep them no matter what.
- You pay your good players on cheap long-term deals OR bridge 'prove-me' deals. Basically, if you can't get them to a bargain contract you trade them.
- You pay your complementary players on cheap short-term deals. Basically, these players are replaceable and should not be locked-down.

On our team?
Matthews/Marner/Nylander are the superstar young players. You pay your young superstars based on potential.
Kapanen/Johnsson are good young players. You pay your good young players on long-term cheap contract OR bridges and keep them as long as they don't get conflict with keeping your superstar players.
Brown/Hyman/ are complementary players. You pay them short-term cheap contracts or get rid of them for cheaper options. No matter how much you 'think' they have heart and soul for the team, they are replaceable and should not be getting paid anything other than cheap.

So to answer your question. Kapanen and Johnsson should be paid for cheap for long-term OR on 'prove-me' deals for short-term. Basically, you try to get them for cheap for as long as possible. Once you can't keep them, they get traded. Majority of the team, you get equivalent or fair value back. You also have replacements on the team since these players aren't superstars. Team doesn't suffer. Key difference to be noted, that's not the same with superstar players. Team suffers greatly because 99% of the time you don't get fair value back for superstars. They also can't be replaced, because they are superstars.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I don’t care what people say. You’d have to ask them if they think his numbers are elite.

I guess I'm just saying this...

The Matthews of the first 11 games this year is a 13 million per player.

But if that was just "shinny" and can't really be used as a benchmark, then by god... he by no means should make anywhere near that. McDavid was well over 100 points 2 years in a row before getting that contract. Matthews still hasn't reached 70.

 

[Pookie]

Kadri needs reduced PP time. He's not playing well.

Swap Nylander for Kadri on the PPs.

Nylander (on PP1) gets some time to catch fire. Kadri (PP2) gets a chance to play a role.

 

[Pookie]

Bruins will mop the floor with this team if they meet in round one.

But. But. But. The nhl is fast and skilled now.

 

[tokyoite]

new year same mistake same outcome

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Let me make this clear, since it isn't clear yet (Read it to the end). In today's NHL, the most effective strategy is as follows:
- You pay your superstar young players based on potential (reasonably) and keep them no matter what.
- You pay your good players on cheap long-term deals OR bridge 'prove-me' deals. Basically, if you can't get them to a bargain contract you trade them.
- You pay your complementary players on cheap short-term deals. Basically, these players are replaceable and should not be locked-down.

On our team?
Matthews/Marner/Nylander are the superstar young players. You pay your young superstars based on potential.
Kapanen/Johnsson are good young players. You pay your good young players on long-term cheap contract OR bridges and keep them as long as they don't get conflict with keeping your superstar players.
Brown/Hyman/ are complementary players. You pay them short-term cheap contracts or get rid of them for cheaper options. No matter how much you 'think' they have heart and soul for the team, they are replaceable and should not be getting paid anything other than cheap.

So to answer your question. Kapanen and Johnsson should be paid for cheap for long-term OR on 'prove-me' deals for short-term. Basically, you try to get them for cheap for as long as possible. Once you can't keep them, they get traded. Majority of the team, you get equivalent or fair value back. You also have replacements on the team since these players aren't superstars. Team doesn't suffer. Key difference to be noted, that's not the same with superstar players. Team suffers greatly because 99% of the time you don't get fair value back for superstars. They also can't be replaced, because they are superstars.

Here's the difference... and I don't see a way past this point...

I see Nylander as a "good" player, based on your above standards. You see him as a "superstar". That's it. The end.

We'll disagree on that. There's no possible way to prove each other right or wrong at the moment. We just have to wait and see. Was Nylander overpaid as a "good" player? Or was he adequately paid as a "superstar" player? Time will only tell. I think I'm right. You think you're right.

 

[CarterD]

Swap Nylander for Kadri on the PPs.

Nylander (on PP1) gets some time to catch fire. Kadri (PP2) gets a chance to play a role.

After these last few games with Nylander, and him finally breaking out I think now is the time to do that

 

[AreBe]

Let me make this clear, since it isn't clear yet (Read it to the end). In today's NHL, the most effective strategy is as follows:
- You pay your superstar young players based on potential (reasonably) and keep them no matter what.
- You pay your good players on cheap long-term deals OR bridge 'prove-me' deals. Basically, if you can't get them to a bargain contract you trade them.
- You pay your complementary players on cheap short-term deals. Basically, these players are replaceable and should not be locked-down.

On our team?
Matthews/Marner/Nylander are the superstar young players. You pay your young superstars based on potential.
Kapanen/Johnsson are good young players. You pay your good young players on long-term cheap contract OR bridges and keep them as long as they don't get conflict with keeping your superstar players.
Brown/Hyman/ are complementary players. You pay them short-term cheap contracts or get rid of them for cheaper options. No matter how much you 'think' they have heart and soul for the team, they are replaceable and should not be getting paid anything other than cheap.

So to answer your question. Kapanen and Johnsson should be paid for cheap for long-term OR on 'prove-me' deals for short-term. Basically, you try to get them for cheap for as long as possible. Once you can't keep them, they get traded. Majority of the team, you get equivalent or fair value back. You also have replacements on the team since these players aren't superstars. Team doesn't suffer. Key difference to be noted, that's not the same with superstar players. Team suffers greatly because 99% of the time you don't get fair value back for superstars. They also can't be replaced, because they are superstars.

There are other ways to make it work,
You can keep Kapanen and Jonsson too, have our cake and the caviar,
But then you are all fat-cats and nobodies, you need to pay everyone else league minimum - that's the framework,
To the middle -class $5 million a year player you must say au revoir!

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Here's the difference... and I don't see a way past this point...

I see Nylander as a "good" player, based on your above standards. You see him as a "superstar". That's it. The end.

We'll disagree on that. There's no possible way to prove each other right or wrong at the moment. We just have to wait and see. Was Nylander overpaid as a "good" player? Or was he adequately paid as a "superstar" player? Time will only tell. I think I'm right. You think you're right.

I literally can't help you if you see Nylander and Johnsson on the same 'good player' level. Puts up 61 points consecutively in his first 2 seasons and not a projected star?

Hysterical.

 

[yubbers]

We'll be bounced in the first round again if changes are not made. And if Andy goes down...well we're right F&#%ed. How we went from our backup goalie being a strength of this team to a complete liability is just insane. Dubas is really testing my patience this season.

 

[CelticDruid]

Kadri has been in coast mode for much of this season and should be dropped from the first PP.
He looks like he is wearing snowshoes instead of skates.
Time to trade him and get a quality defenseman in return before he gets any slower.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I literally can't help you if you see Nylander and Johnsson on the same 'good player' level.

Hysterical.

Under your scale, I see Johnsson as a complimentary player. Nylander/Kadri/Kapanen/Marleau/Gardiner etc are "good" players. And the superstars are Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Reilly, and Andersen.

I mean.. Nyalnder was a career high 20 goal/60 point player by the end of his elc. Compare that to the "superstars" on my above list (other than Reilly who's a defenseman). It's embarrassing.

 

[Nineteen67]

I guess I'm just saying this...

The Matthews of the first 11 games this year is a 13 million per player.

But if that was just "shinny" and can't really be used as a benchmark, then by god... he by no means should make anywhere near that. McDavid was well over 100 points 2 years in a row before getting that contract. Matthews still hasn't reached 70.

He will though. What difference does it make how much money he earns?

Furthermore, I still don’t think he’ll be in Toronto next year anyway.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

He will though. What difference does it make how much money he earns?

Furthermore, I still don’t think he’ll be in Toronto next year anyway.

You don't think Mattews will be in Toronto next year?

 

[Nineteen67]

Looking like the Leafs will only have a four point lead over Boston after tonight.

 

[Nineteen67]

You don't think Mattews will be in Toronto next year?

No. Rangers or preferably Las Vegas.

 

[paulhiggins]

Don't worry. All this "new nhl" stuff that is driving up costs and causing speculation and too much money given to the few elite players will be fixed in the new CBA. This will be the longest lockout ever. Hope some good comes from it. The game sucks as it is.

 

[Pookie]

Babcock seems slow to adapt sometimes

He shouldn’t be giving minutes and top PP minutes to slow players that have been struggling.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Watching this team try to defend depresses my soul. They neglect the basics of the basics. I've seen better coverage in beer leagues.