Dishing the Dirt

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Part way through the Maroons 1925-26 season and found a couple of sterling remarks regarding Nelson Stewart's DEFENSE

I'll continue to comb through the game reports and see what pops up.

Dec 2 1925 Montreal Gazette: Stewart called tricky, deceptive in attack and a power in defensive play at center ice
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Dec 17 1925 Montreal Gazette: Stewart breaking up Pirates attacks
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Feb 3 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart breaks up attack after attack with his sweep check, body and skates. Noted strong point for Maroons
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Same game, Stewart on the PK AND scoring!

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Brilliant defensive work on PK by Nels Stewart

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Mar 31 1926: Montreal Gazette: SCF Game 1 Stewart was amazing. Defense, Scoring, Speed.

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Apr 2 1926: Montreal Gazette: SCF Game 2, Stewart again dominates up and down the ice. But in game 2 he is playing as a DEFENSEMEN.

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Nov 19 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart steal puck and creating scoring chance
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Dec 31 1926 Montreal Gazette
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Same game, sterling description of Stewart defensively

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Jan 26th 1927 Montreal Gazette
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Feb 11 1927 Montreal Gazette Stewart's hustle and smart defensive play saves likely goal

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Feb 18th, 1927 Montreal Gazette Nels Stewart playing great defense opposite of Frank Boucher

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Feb 25 1927 Montreal Gazette Great team defense, Maroons forwards specifically mentioned

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Mar 9 1927 Montreal Gazette Stewart praised for his demon like work ethic and toughness
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Same game. Stewart clearing puck away on the PK

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Mar 11 1927 Montreal Gazette. Great team defense, Stewart specifically mentioned

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Nov 16 1927 Montreal Gazette. Stewart played magnificent and was hard working at center ice
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Nov 23 1927 Montreal Gazette. Nels Stewart dropping back and blocking a Ching Johnson attack

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Nov 30 1927 Montreal Gazette. In a 4-0 loss Stewart was the only Maroon player who had any luck stopping Boston attacks.

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Same game. Stewart apparently played brilliantly on D individually, again stopping Eddie Shore.

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Dec 2 1927 Montreal Gazette: Nels Stewart drops back to D due to injury

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Same game. Maroons cited for strong back checking game as a team.

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Jan 23 1929 Montreal Gazette: Stewart singled out along with 2 others for back check and poke checking brilliance. Stewart was a wing in this game.

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Feb 20 1929 Montreal Gazette: Stewart and Hooley Smith singled out for brilliant poke checking efforts. Again, Nels is a winger here.

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Nov 27 1929 Montreal Gazette: Stewart back at C cited for back checking like a fiend.

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Feb 12 1930 Montreal Gazette: Stewart was a "colossus" with noted back checking efforts and premier passing to boot

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Feb 10 1932 Montreal Gazette: Stewart knocks player out of game with huge hit at center ice
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Pretty interesting and wild game recap you might enjoy!

The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Page 16

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Apr 7 1926: Montreal Gazette: Stewart has another monster game clinching the Cup for the Maroons. Again, Stewart is paired with Reg Noble on D.


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Odds and ends for Stewart:


Dec 4 1925 Montreal Gazette: Stewart has huge game vs Howie Morenz and the Canadians. Cited for matching Morenz's speed with cleverness and cunning. Goal scoring and passing brilliance.
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Maroon forwards noted for bottling up the speed of the Candians before it could get going.
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Nels Stewart was the spectacular player of the evening.
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Dec 24th 1925 Montreal Gazette: Stewart and Reg Noble figured in continually stopping Pirates attacks.
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Jan 13 1926: Stewart has huge game. Bags 4 goals. Highlights of his stickhandling ability.
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Jan 20 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart noted for great defense poke checking many attacks away at center ice.

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Jan 26 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart steals puck from Simpson and passes out to Broadbent
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Feb 10 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart outstanding, great combination work with wings
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Feb 19 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart with another brilliant game.
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Feb 24 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart called smartest player in pro hockey
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Same game: Stewart among multiple Maroon players who thwarted attacks
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Same game: Again, Stewart singled out for his back checking efforts
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Same game: Stewart called out for his tireless work and defensive contributions
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Feb 27, 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart, in a loss cited for playing great defense despite being bottled up offensively
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Jul 13 1932 Lewiston Daily Sun: Stewart called best inside player in game
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Apr 3 1954 The Manitoba Ensign: DAL MacDonald calls Stewart the best scoring center he ever saw

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Nov 12 1930 Montreal Gazette: Maroons shut out but Stewart still cited for hard working efforts

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Nov 26 1930 Montreal Gazette: Stewart shows great speed and then makes a great drop pass to Siebert who scores
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Dec 3 1930 Montreal Gazette: Nels Stewart cited for a nice pass to Hooley Smith who scores.
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Dec 26 1930 Montreal Gazette: Stewart and Hooley Smith brilliant combination work nets a goal

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Jan 26 1931 Montreal Gazette: Stewart scores game winner of full length of the ice rush. Speed shown and debunks the myth that Stewart couldn't skate or just stood in the slot

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Nov 19 1930 Montreal Gazette. Stewart mentioned as showing up well despite Maroons losing 3-0
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Feb 8 1928, Montrela Gazette, Stewart distinctly off, nothing would go right for him but nothing specific mentioned.

Feb 27 1928 Montreal Gazette, Stewart had poor game, Larry Aurie continually leaving him behind on rushes.

Steweart and Smith played well while they were on their poke checking breaking up many a dangerous Leaf attacks.

Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search




Possible that - in addition to picking his spots - Nels Stewart was like other big sized skaters who looked slower than they were?


Playing the Field said:
...

Beliveau has often been likened to the late Nels Stewart. Toe Blake was asked if Stewart was a slow skater, as has been alleged.

"I've heard that and it wasn't true," he said. "You couldn't catch him from behind. He didn't look to be going fast because he took those long strides. Beliveau is like that, too."


The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
 
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jarek

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IE, we already know Stewart was a decent all around guy in the first couple years of his career. A few game recaps won't change a whole lot.

Look at what I dug up for Harry Cameron - what can be found of his defensive record for his entire career, and even that didn't seem to do much for his reputation around here.

You'd have to pretty much do for Nels Stewart what I did for Marty Walsh, and with more than just a handful of game recaps per season. I am not trying to damper your enthusiasm, just trying to keep your expectations realistic.
 

ImporterExporter

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IE, we already know Stewart was a decent all around guy in the first couple years of his career. A few game recaps won't change a whole lot.

Look at what I dug up for Harry Cameron - what can be found of his defensive record for his entire career, and even that didn't seem to do much for his reputation around here.

You'd have to pretty much do for Nels Stewart what I did for Marty Walsh, and with more than just a handful of game recaps per season. I am not trying to damper your enthusiasm, just trying to keep your expectations realistic.

My goal is not to change Stewart into some defensive stalwart. My goal is to show that he shouldn't be considered a complete loss defensively. Complete losses would equal somebody who has no concrete data to counter that narrative. Quotes adding up like the ones above (which are far more than garden variety praise btw) will do noting but help this cause from a factual standpoint. I had no idea Nels Stewart killed penalties for example. He apparently did and was extremely effective, at least for the one game of the handful of game reports i've actually found on the newspapers archives. There are PLENTY of players who have their reputations from this era and earlier held up under scrutiny that don't have pages and pages worth of hard evidence. The standard remains strict but finding game reports from this era isn't exactly easy. And it's a big part of how we get to our conclusions.

I'm doing this to help my cause later, but also because I genuinely enjoy the research.

PS. If you ever want to witness a corny and annoying infomercial/by our shit and you'll get 3 free things crap....go to youtube and check out MyPillow.....:laugh:
 

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Nels Stewart played LW through part of the 1927-28 season with Hooley Smith playing center. Got at least a dozen game reports from that season all showing Nels to the left of Smith. He scored 27 goals that season which is the 3rd highest total of his career. We'll see if he has anymore showings on the wing as I go further into his career.

Edit: Halfway through the 28-29 season and Stewart is still on the wing with Smith at C. He's certainly seems to be racking up enough games and production to be considered C/LW in the ATD.

Stewart back to centre on Feb 1 1929.

Stewart back to wing on Feb 20 1929

Stewart on wing Nov 19 1930 Montreal Gazette



Dec 28th 1927 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 6th 1928 - Stewart at LW (1 goal) - Ottawa citzen cleary says Nels Stewart would be LW while box score Pitt Post Gazette listed him as a sub.
Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 15th 1928 - Stewart LW (2 goals)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Jan 18 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 20 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 27th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 1 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 8th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 11th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 12th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal, 1 assist) - noted as Maroons "huge wing"
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Feb 17th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 22nd 1928 - Stewart LW (2 goals)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 29th 1928 - Stewart noted as Montreal LW
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 2nd 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 7th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 9th 1928 - Steart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 14th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 23rd 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Nov 16th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 assist) - reconstructed assist, clearly described shows Siebert scoring off a pass by Nels
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Nov 18th 1928 - Stewart LW (2 goals)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Nov 21st 1928 - Stewart RW (1 goal) - interesting to see RW. Not sure, could be a typo. Ottawa Citizen just has him listed as wing
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search
Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search

Nov 23rd 1928 - Stewart LW/RW (no stats) - Ottawa paper lists him at LW, Pitt RW
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search
Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search

Nov 28th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal) - Hooley Smith called the Maroons "regular center" - Also, had 2 goals called back to offsides.

Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search

Nov 30th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 2nd 1928 - No editions available. Would be no reason to assume Stewart was anywhere other than wing given his position before and after this date.

Dec 7th 1928 - Stewart LW (2 goals)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 9th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Dec 12th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 14th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)

Dec 16th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Dec 19th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 21 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 26th 1928 - Stewart LW (?) paper is in bad shape. Can't see who scored but can tell Stewart was LW
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 30th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal) - Maroon forwads also noted for strong backchecking effort. Called "strong help to the defense"
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Jan 2 1929 - Stewart LW (3 goals)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 4 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats) - noted poor game/lacksadiscal after a "bad penalty"
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 6 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Jan 9 1929 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 11th 1929 - Stewart LW (1 assist)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 13th 1929 - Stewart RW (no stats)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Jan 18th 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 20th 1929 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Jan 23rd 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats) - noted strong offensively and defensively

The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 20th 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats) - noted that he played extremely effective defense
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 22nd 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 24th 1929 - Stewart LW (2 goals)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Feb 27th 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 6th 1929 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 10th 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Nov 19th 1930 - Stewart LW (no stats) - Stewart one of the few Maroon players who showed up well despite being shut out
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Nov 21st 1930 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 24th 1930 - Stewart C/LW? (2 goals) - Listed in lineup card as C but called big left wing in the game report.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
 
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Theokritos

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Recently drafted:

Aleksandr Yakushev
"One of the best left wings in international hockey. A fast and incredibly agile skater. Has a strong and precise shot from every distance. Exceptionally demanding on himself in the game and in training."

Vladimir Petrov
"Forward who is good at everything, both in attack and in defence. Brilliant in the slot, knows how to shoot from every distance, not inferior to the defencemen in physical play, generously supplies his linemates with assists."

Plus one player requested:

Vladimir Lutchenko
"One of the best defencemen in our hockey. The most reliable, composed and hard-to-play against guy on the defence of the Soviet national team. A model of consistency, he stays in top form throughout the entire season. In addition to his purely defensive qualities, he also has a well-placed long-range shot in his arsenal."
 
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Theokritos

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Next ones:

Jiří Holeček
"One of the best goaltenders in international hockey. Exceptional reliability and technical skill. Has excellent reflexes. Doesn't back down in the face of difficulties, particularly focused in crucial games."

Helmuts Balderis
"A venturesome player who dares to take charge of the game. A scorer. He acts with the same success in different forward positions."
 

BenchBrawl

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Next ones:

Jiří Holeček
"One of the best goaltenders in international hockey. Exceptional reliability and technical skill. Has excellent reflexes. Doesn't back down in the face of difficulties, particularly focused in crucial games."

Helmuts Balderis
"A venturesome player who dares to take charge of the game. A scorer. He acts with the same success in different forward positions."

Do you know how much Balderis played at LW or C? Especially LW.
 

Theokritos

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Do you know how much Balderis played at LW or C? Especially LW.

Looking at the seasons from 1973-74 to 1976-77 (the handbook I've quoted is from 1977), Balderis almost exclusively played RW. He switched to LW with the Soviet national team for a few stretches of the 1976-1977 season and for a few occasions with Dinamo Riga, but that's as far as it goes. I haven't seen him listed at center at all. So the statement in the handbook is a bit puzzling.
 

Sturminator

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The Soviet system favored left-handed right wings as puck carriers. They liked to cut towards center ice at the opposing blueline if they couldn't make an easy entry, and then wait for their linemates with the pass on the forehand set up for zone entry. With that in mind, it makes sense that Balderis would have been mostly employed as a right wing, as he was almost always the puck carrier on his lines.
 

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The Soviet system favored left-handed right wings as puck carriers. They liked to cut towards center ice at the opposing blueline if they couldn't make an easy entry, and then wait for their linemates with the pass on the forehand set up for zone entry. With that in mind, it makes sense that Balderis would have been mostly employed as a right wing, as he was almost always the puck carrier on his lines.

I've certainly noticed that in my studies of Soviet RW's. So many great ones were lefties. Certainly wasn't as prevalent in North American hockey it seems.
 

kruezer

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IE, i was thinking about your Nels Stewart defensive ability research and I think what would help me trust it more would be to get the context of his teammates.

is Nels getting one positive mention and Hooley is getting ten? And is Nels getting ten negative comments to his one positive?

A big undertaking but it would help to understand how valuable one/ten/fifty etc mentions really are. But that’s a shit tonne of work.
 
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ResilientBeast

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SeasonNew WestminsterVancouver VictoriaSeattlePortlandSpokaneEdmontonCalgaryReginaSaskatoon
1912-13XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXN/AN/AN/AN/A
1913-14XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXN/AN/AN/AN/A
1914-15XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXN/AN/AN/AN/A
1915-16XXXSi GriffisXXXFrank FoystonEddie OatmanXXXN/AN/AN/AN/A
1916-17XXXSi GriffisXXXFrank FoystonEddie OatmanXXXN/AN/AN/AN/A
1917-18XXXXXXXXXBobby RoweEddie OatmanXXXN/AN/AN/AN/A
1918-19XXXXXXEddie OatmanBobby RoweXXXXXXN/AN/AN/AN/A
1919-20XXXXXXEddie OatmanJack WalkerXXXXXXN/AN/AN/AN/A
1920-21XXXLloyd CookEddie OatmanXXXXXXXXXDuke KeatsXXXXXXXXX
1921-22XXXLloyd CookEddie OatmanFrank FoystonXXXXXXXXXHerb GardinerXXXXXX
1922-23XXXArt DuncanXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXEddie OatmanXXXXXX
1923-24XXXArt DuncanXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1924-25XXXArt DuncanClem LoughlinXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1925-26XXXXXXClem LoughlinXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
So in my research on Duncan, I've dug into captaincy for a variety of PCHA/WCHL/WHL teams, can anyone help me fill this in? Everything in here I have sources for.
 
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jarek

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IE, i was thinking about your Nels Stewart defensive ability research and I think what would help me trust it more would be to get the context of his teammates.

is Nels getting one positive mention and Hooley is getting ten? And is Nels getting ten negative comments to his one positive?

A big undertaking but it would help to understand how valuable one/ten/fifty etc mentions really are. But that’s a **** tonne of work.

That's what I did with Harry Cameron.
 

kruezer

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I would love to do a recreation of defensive plays from pre WWII game reports. Like the recreated assists. Obviously it would be fraught with difficulties in comparing the numbers, but at least to allow a comparison between teammates within individual seasons. Maybe this is happening somewhere already.
 

ResilientBeast

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I would love to do a recreation of defensive plays from pre WWII game reports. Like the recreated assists. Obviously it would be fraught with difficulties in comparing the numbers, but at least to allow a comparison between teammates within individual seasons. Maybe this is happening somewhere already.

In my experience newspaper accounts won't be thorough enough for that.

They "work" for assists because the narrative is fairly clear leading up to a goal.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
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IE, i was thinking about your Nels Stewart defensive ability research and I think what would help me trust it more would be to get the context of his teammates.

is Nels getting one positive mention and Hooley is getting ten? And is Nels getting ten negative comments to his one positive?

A big undertaking but it would help to understand how valuable one/ten/fifty etc mentions really are. But that’s a **** tonne of work.

I'm going to do the best I can to deliver that.

Honestly, before this draft Nels Stewart was considered slow as molasses. That is the first stereotype we associate with him. Toe Blake flat out refutes that, along with a number of game reports. I don't know what else I can do to convince people that, while he wasn't Howie Morenz, he certainly should no longer be considered the pylon he was a month or 2 ago.

The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
Beliveau has often been likened to the late Nels Stewart. Toe Blake was asked if Stewart was a slow skater, as has been alleged.

"I've heard that and it wasn't true," he said. "You couldn't catch him from behind. He didn't look to be going fast because he took those long strides. Beliveau is like that, too."

And let's not forget that Blake wouldn't have played against Stewart during his prime. His first NHL game was in 1934-35 when Stewart was already 32. Blake was only in Jr hockey at 17 when Stewart was 29 years old. Plus, i'd wonder how many games he would have seen as a youngster considering he wasn't from Montreal. He was an Ontario kid.

He directly compares his skating to Beliveau, while first saying that the typical stereotypes we've all (ATD geniuses that we are :D ) believed are flat out wrong. To me it doesn't get much clearer than that. There are also game reports that describe him like lighting among other phrases that make him seem anything but a turnstile. If those things don't change the perception by a decent amount, I'm guessing nothing ever will.

As far as his defense. Surprisingly there aren't many negative remarks on it. There are some, but honestly they have more to do with him becoming lackadaisical over the course of the game, then specifically referring to poor defense. And I'm talking about a handful of events. Again, this is through the vast majority of his Maroon days, which is just shy of his 30th birthday. So his peak and prime are chock full of praise for his defensive game, a far cry from the story we've all thought since the ATD became a thing. Remember Nels, a month ago had zero defensive value. He was on the same tier as Bill Cowley and Gordie Drillon, etc. This was never about making him out to be a defensive wiz or stalwart, rather getting him out of the basement and up to say an average value. He'll put in the work, be responsible but won't be a game breaker on defense, etc.

How much the needle moves is up to the individual. Honestly there are some I don't think will change their minds at all, regardless of how thorough I am and how much material I have dug up. That's just the nature of people being people (unique). And most of this was done because I like a challenge and really love the research aspect. Of course a portion of the pie is about making the player's value increase, helping my cause during voting, but it's a small portion in all honestly.

I'd say about 90% of my digging is done on Stewart. I've got to get everything into an actual bio form so that it's easier to digest and that will take some time but there should be no problem having it all done before the draft is over.
 

jarek

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Aug 15, 2009
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When was the blake quote from? Also the lightning quote might refer to his reflexes as opposed to his speed
 

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When was the blake quote from? Also the lightning quote might refer to his reflexes as opposed to his speed

Feb 12th, 1959. Not sure that matters much, but that's the date.

The lightning quote I'm referring to almost certainly is talking about his speed, because it's written about him getting to the net in a lightning manner off a rush. "traveling like lightning" is pretty clear to me....

2ro41us.jpg
 

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