Dishing the Dirt

[ImporterExporter]

He shouldn't have been considered a pylon since whatever draft it was that I found that info in the first place. I think I was also the one who found evidence that Gordie Drillon wasn't a slug either. For whatever reason, that is now accepted but Stewart is still a slow lazy slob.

Some people are very resistant to change some of the meme-like categorizations they make of players that stick. Just like "Lindros could never keep his head up".. it is a caricature of the player.

The characterizations of Stewart cruising slowly until getting into striking distance sounds a lot like what you'd hear of Mario Lemieux's skating back in the day.. cherry picking a bit, and appearing slower than he actually was because he was huge.. but his strides covered a lot of ground once he was pointed toward the opposition net.

Precisely. The Toe Blake quote to me is the final nail in the coffin. How do you get better than a 1st hand account of a HOF player/coach directly refuting the stereotype we've all had in our heads?

In my bio there is more than enough evidence to suggest he was anything but slow, at least in Montreal. And while he certainly seemed to slow down in Boston and beyond, he was 30ish by that point. Most players slow down considerably once they hit that age/period.

 

[overpass]

The only people who should be allowed to blame draft dodgers are those who went to war themselves.

I’m sure Conn Smythe was not impressed with any sort of draft dodging, and if he had the kind of influence on the HHOF committee that some say, he may have been against Morris getting in.

Smythe served in the First World War and won the Military Cross.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I’m sure Conn Smythe was not impressed with any sort of draft dodging, and if he had the kind of influence on the HHOF committee that some say, he may have been against Morris getting in.

Smythe served in the First World War and won the Military Cross.

Agreed.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

He shouldn't have been considered a pylon since whatever draft it was that I found that info in the first place. I think I was also the one who found evidence that Gordie Drillon wasn't a slug either. For whatever reason, that is now accepted but Stewart is still a slow lazy slob.
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Biggest difference - as far as I know, we never had any direct evidence that Drillon was slow. We just assumed he was based on description of him playing a Phil Esposito-esque style. Whereas there is a mountain of evidence that Stewart was widely considered slow and/or lazy.

The other difference is the quality of the quotes. There are quotes calling Drillon "fast," "fast-skating" "can whirl up and down the ice at high speed" "speedy" "only one-fifth of a second slower than Syl Apps" (Apps probably the fastest skater of his time).

The quotes about Stewart (including the Toe Blake one) seem more along the lines of "everyone thinks he was slow, but that wasn't really true." Note that Blake seems to be defending Stewart against what seems to have been "common knowledge" at the time. Which is useful information, but it isn't the same as affirmatively calling him a good skater.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Biggest difference - as far as I know, we never had any direct evidence that Drillon was slow. We just assumed he was based on description of him playing a Phil Esposito-esque style. Whereas there is a mountain of evidence that Stewart was widely considered slow and/or lazy.

The other difference is the quality of the quotes. There are quotes calling Drillon "fast," "fast-skating" "can whirl up and down the ice at high speed" "speedy" "only one-fifth of a second slower than Syl Apps" (Apps probably the fastest skater of his time).

The quotes about Stewart (including the Toe Blake one) seem more along the lines of "everyone thinks he was slow, but that wasn't really true." Note that Blake seems to be defending Stewart against what seems to have been "common knowledge" at the time. Which is useful information, but it isn't the same as affirmatively calling him a good skater.

I'd love to see a mountain of evidence. Unless our definitions are vastly different on what that means. Stewart could be a lazy player, and manifested itself as his career went beyond Montreal, because frankly I don't see much of anything in the hundreds of game reports I read that made him out to be a consistent loafer during his time in Montreal.

Toe Blake flat out said "you couldn't catch Stewart from behind." I don't know what else there is to debate over what he was saying there. Not being able to catch somebody skating down the ice = they are pretty bleeping fast at top speed. The first part of the quote ("I heard that and it wasn't true") is him defending against the stereotypes all of us get caught up in especially with players from 75-100+ years ago. If we can't give major points to Toe friggin' Blake directly giving us insight to a player he would have seen and played against, then why bother trying to change the narrative on anyone?

I've got quotes calling Stewart's skating/speed/him moving like "lightning", "speeding the length of the ice", etc, etc. All the stuff you have attached to Drillon above, I have for Stewart at multiple points of his career.

I think once he was bought by Boston he developed more of the reputation we're accustomed to. But that is a far cry from what we thought a few months ago, when you might have given him some credit for being more than a slot only player for 1925-26 and then beyond that he was a lazy POS.

I mean how in the hell did a lazy, no defense playing guy manage to win the Hart in 29-30? And also picked up 50 Hart votes the following year btw. He didn't lead the league in goals or points. Must have made an impression on the voters to get that prestigious award, no?

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Dished out some money for newspapers.com. Looking at Detroit Free Press archives to find stuff on Pavelich, but the 1995 paper had an issue commemorating the 1955 SC team, and there some brief blurbs about some players.

Marcel Bonin: He was a french speaking, muscle bound, checking line forward who lifted weights. He contributed, but developed into a much better hockey player after the Red Wings traded him to Boston.

Alex Delvecchio: One of the smoothest centermen who ever played. So graceful that his speed wasn't always apparent. Very head, he centered the great line with Howe and Lindsay.

Bob Goldham: Usually paired with Pronovost, Goldham was a hardscrabble penalty killer and shot blocker extraordinaire. He had such magnificent timing on blocked shots that a 90 mph drive usually ricocheted off him harmlessly.

Tony Leswick: A heart and soul two way embodiment of the '55 Wings. His teammates called him Mighty Mouse. Leswick was fearless, a guy who didn't back down from anyone. He played on a checking line with Skov and Pavelich.

Marty Pavelich: Perhaps the hardest worker of all the Wings, Pavelich had great speed and would have been a 30 goal scorer had he been blessed with a touch more raw talent. Teamed with Skov and Leswick to give other teams fits.

Marcel Pronovost: There wasn't a better rushing D during his time than Pronovost, who scored so many end to end goals. The Paul Coffey of the '55 Wings.

Dutch Reibel: Leading scorer on the '55 team, he often centered Lindsay and Howe and worked the PP, sometimes playing the right point when Delvecchio moved to center. Had talent and had the linemates.

Glen Skov: One of the definitive two way forwards who helped give Detroit a tangible and intangible edge over every team if played. Skov and his partners, Leswick and Pavelich made nights miserable for most clubs.

Vic Stasiuk: Lindsday remembers Stasiuk being Detroit's MVP during the '55 playoffs "by a country mile". A fine defensive hockey player who could still score.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

@overpass on Glen Harmon. Ottawa Journal Feb 20, 1943, page 22 via newspapers.com

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Earl Seibert, overrated and contract bickerer. Detroit Free Press Dec 1 1935

 

[overpass]

Earl Seibert, overrated and contract bickerer. Detroit Free Press Dec 1 1935

I wonder if there were any sources for that piece other than “Mr Calder.”

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Lester Patrick thinks Larry Aurie best player in the league. Detroit Free Press Mar 6 1936

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

@rmartin65 Babe Siebert profile Mar 8 1936, Detroit Free Press

 

[overpass]

@rmartin65 Babe Siebert profile Mar 8 1936, Detroit Free Press

"Siebert was a big gun in the defense of the Bruins last season when Boston won the championship of all hockey..."

Say what? They won their division and lost in the semifinals.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Lewis is C. Conacher's shadow in 1936 SC Finals

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

GREAT NEWS! I just found the third example of Cowley playing defensively! St. Louis Post-Dispatch Dec 28 1934, page 16

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Praise for Tiny Thompson and indirectly for Charlie Gardiner too. St. Louis Post-Dispatch, jan 11 1935, page 16

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Fourth instance of Cowley's defensive play! St. Louis Post-Dispatch, jan 21 1935 page 16

 

[jarek]

Fourth instance of Cowley's defensive play! St. Louis Post-Dispatch, jan 21 1935 page 16View attachment 100443

Looks like Cowley is well on his way to becoming Pavel Datsyuk or something.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Ranking players on speed, stick handling, best line etc

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Some tidbits on Millionaires players for the 1919-20 season.

 

[BenchBrawl]

BALDY NORTHCOTT

The Ottawa Journal January 4, 1936

Perpetual improvement might have been the motto which Lawrence Northcott, who goes under the cognomen Baldy, and wings for the ubiquitous Maroos, adopted when he started to become a NHL puck-chaser.He started off in 1930 by chalking only six points to the Northcott credit, jumped it to 15 the next year.His "goals for" count climbed from one to three in the transition.Then in 1932 Baldy made another climb, this time to a total of 33, which made him a very valuable left winger indeed, as left wingers go.In 1933 he had dropped back to 30 points, but that's still fair travelling in hockey circles.

Not alone for his point scoring propensities is Northcott beloved of the Maroon management, but for his back-checking ability as well.When they tell Baldy to go out and tie up the opposition, you can rest assured that there won't be many thrusts come down from the left boards without breaking on the Northcott rock.

He was born in Calgary, which has turned out plenty of fine hockey players.Standing nearly six feet tall and weighting around 175 or 180 pounds, there is a sturdy chunk of player wherever Northcott is found.Nor does he accept rough-house tactics with a lamb-like countenance.In fact, at times Northcott can become quite pepery.Which is all very popular in Montreal.

(word by word transcription from me, via newspapers.com)

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

1922-23 WCHL AST voted by fans at halfway mark

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

1922-23 PCHA AST voted by fans ~20/30 games in the season

 

[blood gin]

BALDY NORTHCOTT

The Ottawa Journal January 4, 1936

Perpetual improvement might have been the motto which Lawrence Northcott, who goes under the cognomen Baldy, and wings for the ubiquitous Maroos, adopted when he started to become a NHL puck-chaser.He started off in 1930 by chalking only six points to the Northcott credit, jumped it to 15 the next year.His "goals for" count climbed from one to three in the transition.Then in 1932 Baldy made another climb, this time to a total of 33, which made him a very valuable left winger indeed, as left wingers go.In 1933 he had dropped back to 30 points, but that's still fair travelling in hockey circles.

Not alone for his point scoring propensities is Northcott beloved of the Maroon management, but for his back-checking ability as well.When they tell Baldy to go out and tie up the opposition, you can rest assured that there won't be many thrusts come down from the left boards without breaking on the Northcott rock.

He was born in Calgary, which has turned out plenty of fine hockey players.Standing nearly six feet tall and weighting around 175 or 180 pounds, there is a sturdy chunk of player wherever Northcott is found.Nor does he accept rough-house tactics with a lamb-like countenance.In fact, at times Northcott can become quite pepery.Which is all very popular in Montreal.

(word by word transcription from me, via newspapers.com)

Very well written. Was hoping for a tidbit as to why his nickname was Baldy since this is what he looked like

 

[overpass]

Very well written. Was hoping for a tidbit as to why his nickname was Baldy since this is what he looked like

It seems Northcott was called "Baldy" as a joke because he was so proud of his hair.

Montreal Maroons Greatest Players: Baldy Northcott

The other day someone asked me what was Baldy Northcott's given name. I have to admit, I had no idea. I had always known him as Baldy! It turns out his real name is Lawrence by the way.

So Lawrence was nicknamed Baldy because of his lack of hair right? Wrong! Northcott was nicknamed Baldy out of sarcasm. Northcott had a beautiful mane of dark, thick hair which he adored.

 

[Theokritos]

Picks since the 18th round:

Vladimir Shadrin (#417):
"Has an accurate and timely pass and a strong shot. Capable of playing an active physical game throughout the match. Able to shoulder the burden of helping his partners when it comes to protecting the goal. A regular penalty killer for both the national team and his club team."

Yury Lyapkin (#444):
"Despite being somewhat soft and not very fast, he has become one of the best defencemen in our country by virtue of his fine puck handling skill and his tactical outlook. A master of improvisation in the game. Cleverly connects to the attack and completes it with his effective shots."

Nikolay Sologubov (#459):
"The strongest defenceman in the history of Soviet hockey. Could do almost everything. Had an advanced tactical outlook, was excellent on his skates, was quick and agile and possessed a variety of technical skills. One of the first players in our country who made skillful use of the bodycheck. Perfectly interacted with his defensive partner Ivan Tregubov. Able to take charge of the game in any situation. Successful in the attack, he even played center forward for one season. Enjoyed unquestioned authority with players and coaches. Captain of CSKA and the Soviet national team for many years."

Viktor Shalimov (#536):
"Light-footed and elegant, but at the same time a versatile player who plays with equal success on any forward position. Excellent stickhandler and a master at both passing and scoring himself."