Discussion: Are we a Lottery Team?

[TheCrazedMadman]

If we made it past the 1st round would we still be in rebuild mode now?

Just curious, I feel like we had a pretty great team last year, lots of great lines being put out there (an incredible 4th line to boot!). We were lacking in defense a little, but I was happiest I've been with the team for a very long time.

.....and then this off season happened, and it seems like we just got rid of a lot of key players for little in return. That and the talks about Benning letting Vrbata and Hamhuis walk next season, things are shifting into rebuild mode pretty quickly.

So my question is, if we did beat Calgary (which I still feel like we should have), and possibly even anahiem (or at least give them a run for their money). Would we still be shifting into a rebuild?

Yea, I know this is a "what if" topic....but this is the off season

 

[Domecile]

We're not in rebuild mode right now if we go according to what management has made public...

So my answer is no. We wouldn't be in rebuild now mode had we advanced farther into the playoffs.

 

[Nuckles]

I think regardless of how we did in the playoffs, Benning already knew what he wanted to do this off-season. We knew for a while that he didn't think highly of guys like Lack and Kassian, and we knew that there wasn't really room for Corrado and Clendening so we had to move some d-men out.

 

[Win One Before I Die]

I feel like Benning just wanted to give everyone a year to show him what they were. The changes were coming regardless.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I think regardless of how we did in the playoffs, Benning already knew what he wanted to do this off-season. We knew for a while that he didn't think highly of guys like Lack and Kassian, and we knew that there wasn't really room for Corrado and Clendening so we had to move some d-men out.

This.

Much as I have chastised Benning for his horrible trades. The deciding factor is going to be what we do this season. Hamhuis and Vrbata must return good value. There are no excuses as to why they wouldn't.

 

[racerjoe]

Are we? I don't think we are meaning to right now. I think we should have made the second round and actually blame coaching for that. I think we have to rebuild because of management decisions now. I don't see us having the same ability to retool. We lost that with the poor return on Kesler, many of the signings and now miss managed cap, and the Garisson trade.

We no longer have the assets that would let us retool.

 

[Ho Borvat]

The Canucks are re-tooling, but they still have lots of experienced players to show the young players how to win. There are lots of examples of young players contributing significantly to teams, so I don't see why one or two of the Canucks young ones couldn't.

Doomers and haters may want to write-off the Canucks, fire everyone and tank for a high draft pick, but I'd rather watch the Sedins unexpectantly lead the younger Canucks back to the playoffs, and see if the re-tool can lead to more success once there.

Well, objectively speaking we don't really have any blue chip prospects outside of Horvat. Most of our prospects project as secondary/support pieces, and we lack star power.

We would all rather see the Sedins lead a younger squad to the playoffs... but you said it yourself... don't expect it.

 

[Hardyvan123]

This.

Much as I have chastised Benning for his horrible trades. The deciding factor is going to be what we do this season. Hamhuis and Vrbata must return good value. There are no excuses as to why they wouldn't.

Well if they wait too long on a perishable asset, they might not get as much in return, it's a gamble.

What if wither guy gets injured or regresses?

Vrbata especially looked good early then faded and locked lost in the playoffs, will there be a big demand for him from a team wanting to go far into the playoffs?

Time will tell.

 

[Proto]

For the Doomers and Haters the only team that can under-achieve are the Canucks. For them, there is no way the Canucks can do better than expected.

The fact is each year the pundits and experts are wrong. A key injury or an unexpected poor start to the season can take any team out of the play-offs, not just the Canucks. It happens every year. A lot of teams people are certain will make the playoffs won't.

The Canucks are re-tooling, but they still have lots of experienced players to show the young players how to win. There are lots of examples of young players contributing significantly to teams, so I don't see why one or two of the Canucks young ones couldn't.

Doomers and haters may want to write-off the Canucks, fire everyone and tank for a high draft pick, but I'd rather watch the Sedins unexpectantly lead the younger Canucks back to the playoffs, and see if the re-tool can lead to more success once there.

Huh? They did it last year.

Right now, there's a management team in place that refuses to commit to a proper rebuild or execute a proper re-tool, over-achieving and reinforcing bad process is the last thing I want.

 

[ugghhh]

Well if they wait too long on a perishable asset, they might not get as much in return, it's a gamble.

What if wither guy gets injured or regresses?

Vrbata especially looked good early then faded and locked lost in the playoffs, will there be a big demand for him from a team wanting to go far into the playoffs?

Time will tell.

Scorers always bring high value at the deadline. If Vrbata is on a 30 goal pace, he should bring back a 1st+.

The deadline is the time that you trade Vrbata/Hamhuis. If they get injured, that sucks, but it's not something you can criticise Benning for IMO.


As for the OP, I think if we get past Anaheim, things might be different. Beating Calgary -- was sort of expected, and Calgary is a young team so I think the value of beating them would have been diminished.

It's not like we have a ton of flexibility to do much else anyway.

Maybe we would have kept Lack instead of Miller if he took us to the 3rd round.

 

[DL44]

On paper, I don't think so.

Landeskog-Duchene-Iginla
Tanguay-Soderberg-Mackinnon

is better than our top 6. If Grigorenko and Rantanen play well, Colorado is significantly better than us.

Beauchemin-Johnson
Stuart-Barrie
Zadorov-Redmond

is better than our defense.

Varlamov/Berra

is equal to Miller/Markstrom (if not better).

Don't see that at all..
Their top line doesn't compare to ours. Their PP is sad.
The depth of the bottom 6 doesn't compare - we were among the best in the conference with our bottom 6 personnel...

Our big weakness during the season was our 2nd line scoring consistency crap and we had a nonexistent 2nd unit PP.

On D.. they probably have the best Dman, and the best prospect.. but we have the better top pairing and top 3.

 

[kurt]

Everyone said the same thing last year. The Canucks were 2nd in the division last year. Lack basically carried the team into the playoffs and we had some decent scoring. Pretender all the way.

We have Markstrom now, he is either going to be really good or he is going to fail hard. If Markstrom is good we will be a playoff team.

Except the surrounding teams have mostly improved, and the Canucks have mostly regressed.

 

[mdobbs]

Except the surrounding teams have mostly improved, and the Canucks have mostly regressed.

If our young players can show up this year then I think we'll be comparably good to last season.

 

[mdobbs]

On paper, I don't think so.

Landeskog-Duchene-Iginla
Tanguay-Soderberg-Mackinnon

is better than our top 6. If Grigorenko and Rantanen play well, Colorado is significantly better than us.

Beauchemin-Johnson
Stuart-Barrie
Zadorov-Redmond

is better than our defense.

Varlamov/Berra

is equal to Miller/Markstrom (if not better).

Soderberg is an overrated 2nd liner. He feasted on 3rd line competition for the first half of the season last year. When he was moved up in the lineup his scoring completely evaporated. I don't think he's better than Bonino. I think Colorado's top 6 is closer than you think to ours.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Since when is trading young players in favour of 30+ players a re-build? Trading Bieksa was addition by subtraction. There's only room for one Sbisa.

 

[Reign Nateo]

I would say we miss the playoffs, and then they can start using the "re-build" word out loud.

 

[CP]

Well, objectively speaking we don't really have any blue chip prospects outside of Horvat. Most of our prospects project as secondary/support pieces, and we lack star power.

We would all rather see the Sedins lead a younger squad to the playoffs... but you said it yourself... don't expect it.

I think you mean subjectively. Just because it is your opinion, doesn't make it objective. Subjectively speaking, I think we have a number of blue-chippers.

The connotation of my earlier post is that I think we have as much chance as any other team to make the playoffs. While I did use the word "unexpected", I was trying to refer to the majority of opinions in this thread that seem representative of the doomer/hater mindset. Obviously my attempt failed, so I apologize for my lack of clarity.

 

[ugghhh]

Don't see that at all..
Their top line doesn't compare to ours. Their PP is sad.
The depth of the bottom 6 doesn't compare - we were among the best in the conference with our bottom 6 personnel...

Our big weakness during the season was our 2nd line scoring consistency crap and we had a nonexistent 2nd unit PP.

On D.. they probably have the best Dman, and the best prospect.. but we have the better top pairing and top 3.

You might be right.

I don't think there's much separating the two teams (on paper) and it probably boils down to me thinking Mackinnon, Landeskog and Duchene are ready to take that next step.

Their PP was 29th last year, but was 5th the previous year. On paper, I don't see it struggling again.

Mackinnon had a down year (sophomore slump?), but I think he'll be a top-20 scorer next season.

I'm also quite high on Soderberg, who I think should be in that 55-60pt range next year.

Tanguay and Iginla are question marks as they age, but they have done well so far.

They also added two top-4 defenseman in Zadorov and Beauchemin, imo, and replacing Hejda and Guenin is addition by subtraction at this point.

I think they've improved quite a bit, and were not too far off from the Canucks results-wise last year (11 points behind us, but 12 OT losses vs 5 for the Canucks).

 

[ugghhh]

Soderberg is an overrated 2nd liner. He feasted on 3rd line competition for the first half of the season last year. When he was moved up in the lineup his scoring completely evaporated. I don't think he's better than Bonino. I think Colorado's top 6 is closer than you think to ours.

No one in Boston did very well after the first half -- hard to pin that on a single player.

 

[Rey]

I also expect MacKinnon to have a bounce back here. This guy should be a legit thread to be a top 10 point producer. He was pretty bad last year, and still managed to put up points with skill and skill alone. I think he had some issues that bothered him Injury wise. Duchene was quite the opposite as he did everything right but things didn't go in for him. I expect both those guys go back to close to PPG guys next year.

 

[Reign Nateo]

http://onecanuck.com/youre-screaming-for-a-rebuild-yet-youre-watching-one/

Thought this was a really well done article on the state of the Canucks and the fans' myriad of perspectives.

The basic sentiment though is stop begging for a re-build. You're already watching one.

 

[Rey]

Soderberg is an overrated 2nd liner. He feasted on 3rd line competition for the first half of the season last year. When he was moved up in the lineup his scoring completely evaporated. I don't think he's better than Bonino. I think Colorado's top 6 is closer than you think to ours.

Soderberg might be slotted as the 3C, but even if he isn't. He'll have a hell lot better wingers than he had in Boston. Having Mackinnon and Landeskog on his wing changes things.

 

[D0ctorCool]

http://onecanuck.com/youre-screaming-for-a-rebuild-yet-youre-watching-one/

Thought this was a really well done article on the state of the Canucks and the fans' myriad of perspectives.

The basic sentiment though is stop begging for a re-build. You're already watching one.

I agree with a lot of the article, but I think it oversimplifies things. Most people would agree we're in a rebuild of sorts, but we may be entering a half-hearted rebuild that leaves us mired in mediocrity. I think that's the bigger issue at hand.

 

[Bo Ho*]

http://onecanuck.com/youre-screaming-for-a-rebuild-yet-youre-watching-one/

Thought this was a really well done article on the state of the Canucks and the fans' myriad of perspectives.

The basic sentiment though is stop begging for a re-build. You're already watching one.

Agreed, this forum is pretty unrealistic about rebuilding. They want a full on rebuild (nevermind the fact that historically, full on rebuilds don't always work) and neglect the fact that ownership won't allow it. It's also funny that ownership tried to sell the team in 2013 and no one wanted to buy it at that price, so we're stuck with Aquilini at the helm. Just accept the fact that a full rebuild won't happen, the Sedins are staying put, and hopefully we'll be competitive in 3-5 years. It's getting annoying with all the sour grapes on this board.

 

[CherryToke]

they will make the playoffs again.