Discussion: Are we a Lottery Team?

[Bo Ho*]

We are the Oiers now, sadly we still havent hit rock bottom yet, but we're on our way, if fans think this is bad I think the storm has yet to come in Vancouver. Benning would have to make some big steps to beinging a good GM to save this sinking ship, sadly with his past moves I think the ship will sink sooner.

We're more akin to the Flames, trying to compete with an aging core that just doesn't have enough left in the tank to compete for a cup. However, at least we've somewhat recognized this and have made a conscious effort to restock the prospect pool and keep our first round picks.

 

[kanucks25]

We're in that dreaded Flames region. Gonna miss the playoffs but get just a mid-pick.

Depressing season incoming.

 

[Bo Ho*]

We're in that dreaded Flames region. Gonna miss the playoffs but get just a mid-pick.

Depressing season incoming.

Flames put up with mid-picks but drafted well and now are on the rise. If there's one thing I have faith in Benning for, it's drafting. Also keep in mind that Calgary was in denial of rebuilding for at least 3-4 years, whereas Vancouver started the rebuild last season with two first rounds picks (or arguably 2013). We'll have to put up with 2-4 mediocre-to-bad seasons and then we'll be an exciting young team again. Not the worst scenario to be in.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

For some reason, I think Miller will have a bounce back year, one of his best year in is career. (Lots of old goalies do this at their nearly end career)
We'll make the playoffs.

 

[me2]

Agreed, except this team is worse than that team in every way. We are a worse team then even last year. Our goaltending is worse, our defense is worse, our forwards are worse.

I don't know about that. Most of the team is back. Bieksa was a liability last year and Kassian missed half a season.

Top 6
Same as last year it Higgins outduels Baertschi, it Baertschi wins the 2LW the second line could see a points increase. It will miss Higgins hard working game though.



Bottom six
is weaker for sure at first glance but it has a mystery box to it. If Virtanen is the real deal he should offset that to some degree. Higgins dropping to the 3rd line strengthens it. Horvat could show continued improvement. Vey
4C is questionable, centre depth is woeful it injuries hit.

Defense
Edler - Tanev : Tick

2nd pairing should be Hamhuis -Weber. They muddled through OK last year. If it is Hamhuis-Sbisa god help the team.

3rd pairing - it was ugly last year and will probably be ugly again this year. One train wreck for another, cancels out.

PP: More Weber - good. Baertschi on the second unit should help it a lot. Less Higgins, less Vey, hopefully more Horvat. Slight improvement.

PK: expecting a decrease in effectiveness with more Vey, more Dorsett.

Goaltending

Can Miller bounce back? Possible. Will it result in more wins? Probably not, I doubt he has as much team scoring luck as last year. Markstrom is a mystery, wrapped in WTFK. Will we see noted NHL choker or a born again .920 NHL starter in the making. This could go "can't look away" train wreck bad or they might escape their own foot shooting with minimal points table damage.

 

[Hammer79]

Agreed, except this team is worse than that team in every way. We are a worse team then even last year. Our goaltending is worse, our defense is worse, our forwards are worse.

Goaltending is a wash, same starter, younger backup with arguably higher upside than the last backup. There was a comment about goal support for Miller being higher, but I would argue that is because Miller was better than Lack at puckhandling and getting the puck up to his D quickly. We saw this in the Flames series too.

Defense; Bieksa and Stanton gone, Bartkowski in with two spots open for Corrado and Clendening. Bieksa has been on a long decline and Stanton had an off year. Not much really has changed because we still have Edler, Hamhuis and Tanev. The Blackhawks proved this year that you can win without a legit 3rd pairing. Overall the D got slightly worse with Bieksa's departure, but not dramatically so.

Forwards; we've only really seen tweaks to the 4th line unless you count Kassian, which I don't since he missed most of last year anyway and that roster is what we are comparing the 2015-2016 roster against. Again, there are a couple spots open for rookies like Baertschi and possibly Virtanen. I'd say they are very slightly improved from last year's roster just based on one more year for our current crop of rookies to crack the roster.

 

[thefeebster]

We're in that dreaded Flames region. Gonna miss the playoffs but get just a mid-pick.

Depressing season incoming.

Agree. We are the Flames on the ice (past-expiry and stale), but with the Oilers' front office. So really the best of both worlds.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Think we finish just like the 2014 season. 6th last is my prediction. Hopefully we can snag one of the top 3 picks.

 

[me2]

Goaltending is a wash, same starter, younger backup with arguably higher upside than the last backup. There was a comment about goal support for Miller being higher, but I would argue that is because Miller was better than Lack at puckhandling and getting the puck up to his D quickly. We saw this in the Flames series too.

That seemed to be pretty iffy, based on one optimistic observation that Miller fans clung to. The passing hypothesis is really questionable when it turns out they got hit at least as much with Miller as with Lack. If anything forwards providing more options help out the D helped, not that it showed.

 

[Fat Tony]

The Blackhawks proved this year that you can win without a legit 3rd pairing.

I wonder how they pulled that off.

 

[a Fool]

I wonder how they pulled that off.

Amazing what competent coaching can do.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?fetchKey=20153CHIDADALL&ord=desc&sort=avgTOIPerGame&viewName=summary

vs.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?sea...&viewName=summary&sort=avgTOIPerGame&ord=desc

 

[MikeK]

Definitely bottom 10. The next few seasons are going to be terrible.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

We're not going to be good this year, and our competition is going to be better. I say we miss the playoffs.

I also say we miss the Top 5 picks because Canucks.

 

[Bobs your uncle]

We are the Oiers now, sadly we still havent hit rock bottom yet, but we're on our way, if fans think this is bad I think the storm has yet to come in Vancouver. Benning would have to make some big steps to beinging a good GM to save this sinking ship, sadly with his past moves I think the ship will sink sooner.

We are in agreement. The Canucks are circling the bowl and won't begin to reverse those fortunes until the twins contract expire. Horvat is a nice player but I don't see him as a first line player but rather a solid 2nd line center. If I were Benning, I'd attempt to use any/all assets as a means to acquire as many picks as possible similarly to what the Leafs did last season. Hopefully the GM becomes a little more savvy in his negotiating skills.

 

[iFan]

We're more akin to the Flames, trying to compete with an aging core that just doesn't have enough left in the tank to compete for a cup. However, at least we've somewhat recognized this and have made a conscious effort to restock the prospect pool and keep our first round picks.

There's differences with the Flames, their owner ok a rebuild ours won't. Flames knew they had to get high draft picks and they got them in solid draft years with solid picks, they cut ties with their older vets and core and built a new era, we've been holding on to ours for way too long and our owner will not ok a rebuild, this is why we'll be more like the Oilers.

 

[iFan]

We are in agreement. The Canucks are circling the bowl and won't begin to reverse those fortunes until the twins contract expire. Horvat is a nice player but I don't see him as a first line player but rather a solid 2nd line center. If I were Benning, I'd attempt to use any/all assets as a means to acquire as many picks as possible similarly to what the Leafs did last season. Hopefully the GM becomes a little more savvy in his negotiating skills.

I do think Horvat is more of a 2nd line center but with his big improvements to skating speed, he very well could turn into a 70pt strong two way guy, I personally would love Horvat to become that player and wear the C and be our future leader, loved him when he was with the Knights and the improvements with his game is pretty big IMHO, I wouldn't be surprised if he did developed into Bergeron.

 

[iFan]

I don't know about that. Most of the team is back. Bieksa was a liability last year and Kassian missed half a season.

Top 6
Same as last year it Higgins outduels Baertschi, it Baertschi wins the 2LW the second line could see a points increase. It will miss Higgins hard working game though.



Bottom six
is weaker for sure at first glance but it has a mystery box to it. If Virtanen is the real deal he should offset that to some degree. Higgins dropping to the 3rd line strengthens it. Horvat could show continued improvement. Vey
4C is questionable, centre depth is woeful it injuries hit.

Defense
Edler - Tanev : Tick

2nd pairing should be Hamhuis -Weber. They muddled through OK last year. If it is Hamhuis-Sbisa god help the team.

3rd pairing - it was ugly last year and will probably be ugly again this year. One train wreck for another, cancels out.

PP: More Weber - good. Baertschi on the second unit should help it a lot. Less Higgins, less Vey, hopefully more Horvat. Slight improvement.

PK: expecting a decrease in effectiveness with more Vey, more Dorsett.

Goaltending

Can Miller bounce back? Possible. Will it result in more wins? Probably not, I doubt he has as much team scoring luck as last year. Markstrom is a mystery, wrapped in WTFK. Will we see noted NHL choker or a born again .920 NHL starter in the making. This could go "can't look away" train wreck bad or they might escape their own foot shooting with minimal points table damage.

Problem is other teams got much better to better, many surpassing the Canucks. The mild possible improvements to the Canucks isn't enough to compare to what other teams did, I personally feel we got weaker this offseason but I understand your points.

 

[WinterEmpire]

There's differences with the Flames, their owner ok a rebuild ours won't. Flames knew they had to get high draft picks and they got them in solid draft years with solid picks, they cut ties with their older vets and core and built a new era, we've been holding on to ours for way too long and our owner will not ok a rebuild, this is why we'll be more like the Oilers.

Actually that's exactly what the Flames did. Held on to Iggy and Phanuef for way too long

 

[CP]

They'll miss the playoffs just like they did last year, or were predicted to do last year by all the pundits, anyway they'll be just as terrible as last year, and probably get the first over all pick, just like they should have last year, but didn't, because they were really terrible to make the playoffs with only 101 points, right down there with the oilers and sabres, kind of, but not exactly, but they'll be bad, mark my words, unless of course they aren't, which would mean something, but nothing really because yah Benning, yah that's it, just Benning. I hope I'm clear. Remember last year when Dallas and LA were so much better than the Canucks. It'll be just like that again, maybe. So there is really no hope.



Unless of course... Aw forget it.

 

[Slapshot_11]

There's differences with the Flames, their owner ok a rebuild ours won't. Flames knew they had to get high draft picks and they got them in solid draft years with solid picks, they cut ties with their older vets and core and built a new era, we've been holding on to ours for way too long and our owner will not ok a rebuild, this is why we'll be more like the Oilers.

hopefully the owners sell the team once they realize they aren't getting that playoff money anymore with this group and a rebuild is required

 

[LeftCoast]

If we are below the playoff line at the deadline and not trending strongly upward, we damn well better sell the expiring veteran contracts and call up the young players. If we sell Vrbata and Hamhuis, maybe Higgins, we should easily hit bottom 5.

 

[iFan]

Actually that's exactly what the Flames did. Held on to Iggy and Phanuef for way too long

But they moved them, Canucks have been average since the SCF, we've already hold on to our core players for too long. Flames owner knew they had to rebuild and allowed, our owners won't accept the rebuild.

 

[me2]

Problem is other teams got much better to better, many surpassing the Canucks. The mild possible improvements to the Canucks isn't enough to compare to what other teams did, I personally feel we got weaker this offseason but I understand your points.

101 points, 5th in division. Has Benning let 3 teams get past him?

 

[Hammer79]

Problem is other teams got much better to better, many surpassing the Canucks. The mild possible improvements to the Canucks isn't enough to compare to what other teams did, I personally feel we got weaker this offseason but I understand your points.

When you break down the moves in our division though, I think the Canucks are still good enough for 3rd in the division.

Edmonton got better in the moves they made, but they are coming off a 29th place finish so they needed to improve significantly just to become a bubble team let alone a contender.

Calgary got better on D but they were a playoff team already so they may leapfrog us for 2nd but not cost us a spot.

LA added Lucic, but he's a 60 pt player at his peak and he had an off season last year. They also missed last year.

SJ is still the same aside from adding Ward and putting Jones in net.

The Ducks picked up Bieksa from us but are basically the same team that contended for the president's trophy.

The Coyotes have tonnes of off ice issues in that market and look to be a cap floor team treading water.

 

[iFan]

101 points, 5th in division. Has Benning let 3 teams get past him?

Calgary beat us in the playoffs and are the better team, yet we did better than them in the season, don't put too much into years points with a older core that has many holes and questions around it. If Calgary had Gio I'd think they finish ahead of us.