Discussion: Are we a Lottery Team?

[racerjoe]

I have said it before and I will say it again, with the schedule we have to start the season, I don't think things look good. I can see us loosing the first five, and you have to know if that happens it will be scramble time for this management, and I can't see much good happening.

 

[Ho Borvat]

I have said it before and I will say it again, with the schedule we have to start the season, I don't think things look good. I can see us loosing the first five, and you have to know if that happens it will be scramble time for this management, and I can't see much good happening.

Also doesn't help we finished ahead of Calgary, Edmonton, San Jose, and LA last year and I don't see us as a better team than any of them...

 

[mdobbs]

I think we took major steps back this offseason. The organizational asset depth has declined significantly.

Except our prospect pool is arguably the strongest it's been in years. We legitimately have at least 9 or 10 guys whose floor is NHL.

 

[fancouver]

I have said it before and I will say it again, with the schedule we have to start the season, I don't think things look good. I can see us loosing the first five, and you have to know if that happens it will be scramble time for this management, and I can't see much good happening.

If I recall correctly, most had us losing the majority of games and missing the playoffs last year too. I'm not saying I disagree with you claim, but I wouldn't write the team off just yet.

We were 1 point away from the eventual cup winners, so when it comes to the regular season, Canucks are usually pretty good. It's just the playoffs

 

[DL44]

I voted Make the playoffs...

Mostly based on what other teams did around us... Still early tho, so there should be significant player movement yet to occur...

But so far, we're stable playoff shape still...

Anaheim - 109 pts
IN: Horcoff, Hagelin, Bieksa, Holzer
OUT: Belesky, Etem, Wisniewski, Palmieri, Beauchemin

LA – 95 pts
IN: Lucic, Enroth…. ((Voynov X-factor to their season))
OUT: Sekera, Regher, Richards, Williams, (Stoll), Jones
(Suspect this could be Darryl Sutter's last yr... brash prediction IF Voynov is a no go - Sutter out by the All-Star break.)

SJ – 89 pts
IN: Ward, Martin, Jones, NEW COACH
OUT: Niemi, (Hannan, Irvin, Scott)
Most significant change was behind the bench. Goaltending wasn't their problem last yr, and now their locked into an inexperienced Jones.

Cgy – 97 pts
IN: Hamilton, Frolik, Grant
OUT: M.Reinhart, Cundari, Diaz, (Schlemko, Potter)
Go go either way... must be a better possession team.

Edm – 62 pts
IN: McDavid, Korpikoski, Letestu, Talbot, Sekera, G.Reinhart
OUT: Gordon, Fasth, (Roy)
Big improvement.. still a raw D.

Chi – 102 pts
IN: Anisimov, Tikinov, Dano, Panarin, Morin
OUT: Richards, Saad, Vermette, Timonen, Raanta (Carcillo, Cumisky, Oduya, Rosival)
Will be in the mix for the next half decade+.

StL – 109 pts
IN: Brodziak, Brower
OUT: Michalek, Jackman, Oshie
Sure...

Nas – 104 pts
IN: Hodgson, Jackman, M.Reinhart
OUT: Stalberg, Hellberg (Fanson, Santorelli)

Min – 100 pts
IN: Dalpe
OUT: Broziak (Ballard, Bergenhiem, Stewart, Leopold, Curry)
Hanging tight.

Wpg – 99pts
IN: Burmistrov
OUT: Frolik, O’Dell, (Tlusty, Slater, Stempniak, )
Hanging tight.

Dal – 92 pts
IN: Niemi
OUT: Enroth, Horcoff
Haven't donae anything to address their D. Do not see em progressing till they do.

Col- 90pts
IN: Grigorenko, Zadorov, Compher, Soderberg, Beauchemin
OUT: O’Reilly, McGinn, Briere, Hedja, Wilson
Same as Dal. But much weaker down the middle after losing Stastny the yr before and now ROR.

 

[Fork]

mos def

 

[WinterEmpire]

We're one Sedin injury from a bottom five finish. Good chance to happen

 

[mdobbs]

We're one Sedin injury from a bottom five finish. Good chance to happen

I mean a major injury could hurt any team. Toews gets a season ending injury in the first week of the season and the Hawks are potentially missing the playoffs. Just saying.

 

[WinterEmpire]

I mean a major injury could hurt any team. Toews gets a season ending injury in the first week of the season and the Hawks are potentially missing the playoffs. Just saying.

I never said major injury. 20 game injury like Kane had this year and the Canucks are done. We have zero depth if one of them goes down, other teams would be able to at least partially replace an injury to a star player temporarily.

Now that I think about it lets throw in two of Tanev, Edler, or Hamhuis together at any point this season. Our defense would be bottom of the league if that happens.

We have a handful of players keeping this team's head above water, there is no support outside of that. An injury for the Canucks is more devastating than most other teams this season.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Except our prospect pool is arguably the strongest it's been in years. We legitimately have at least 9 or 10 guys whose floor is NHL.

Still lacks any sort of top-end talent you can build a franchise around... lots of decent pieces... but really doesn't look like theres objectively any star power in the pipeline.

 

[WinterEmpire]

Still lacks any sort of top-end talent you can build a franchise around... lots of decent pieces... but really doesn't look like theres objectively any star power in the pipeline.

And nobody who can really step in this season to make a noticeable impact outside of SvenBae

 

[Icebreakers]

Still lacks any sort of top-end talent you can build a franchise around... lots of decent pieces... but really doesn't look like theres objectively any star power in the pipeline.

Calgary had literally 0 star pieces in 2012-2013. The only player that they drafted high to make an impact in this past season was Monahan. Everyone else were 2nd round pick or later. (Bennett had 0 impact on Calgary's reg season). Calgary were literally in the worst shape moving forward in the entire NHL. Traded Iginla and J Bouw for basically nothing relevant.

Basically , drafting and developing after the first round is the most important, much more important than tanking.

 

[CCF]

Except our prospect pool is arguably the strongest it's been in years. We legitimately have at least 9 or 10 guys whose floor is NHL.

Agreed - but I was mores referencing current NHL depth. I think we have taken major steps backwards over the past year through signings and trades.

 

[ugghhh]

I voted Make the playoffs...

Mostly based on what other teams did around us... Still early tho, so there should be significant player movement yet to occur...

But so far, we're stable playoff shape still...

Anaheim - 109 pts
IN: Horcoff, Hagelin, Bieksa, Holzer
OUT: Belesky, Etem, Wisniewski, Palmieri, Beauchemin

LA – 95 pts
IN: Lucic, Enroth…. ((Voynov X-factor to their season))
OUT: Sekera, Regher, Richards, Williams, (Stoll), Jones
(Suspect this could be Darryl Sutter's last yr... brash prediction IF Voynov is a no go - Sutter out by the All-Star break.)

SJ – 89 pts
IN: Ward, Martin, Jones, NEW COACH
OUT: Niemi, (Hannan, Irvin, Scott)
Most significant change was behind the bench. Goaltending wasn't their problem last yr, and now their locked into an inexperienced Jones.

Cgy – 97 pts
IN: Hamilton, Frolik, Grant
OUT: M.Reinhart, Cundari, Diaz, (Schlemko, Potter)
Go go either way... must be a better possession team.

Edm – 62 pts
IN: McDavid, Korpikoski, Letestu, Talbot, Sekera, G.Reinhart
OUT: Gordon, Fasth, (Roy)
Big improvement.. still a raw D.

Chi – 102 pts
IN: Anisimov, Tikinov, Dano, Panarin, Morin
OUT: Richards, Saad, Vermette, Timonen, Raanta (Carcillo, Cumisky, Oduya, Rosival)
Will be in the mix for the next half decade+.

StL – 109 pts
IN: Brodziak, Brower
OUT: Michalek, Jackman, Oshie
Sure...

Nas – 104 pts
IN: Hodgson, Jackman, M.Reinhart
OUT: Stalberg, Hellberg (Fanson, Santorelli)

Min – 100 pts
IN: Dalpe
OUT: Broziak (Ballard, Bergenhiem, Stewart, Leopold, Curry)
Hanging tight.

Wpg – 99pts
IN:
OUT: Frolik, O’Dell, (Tlusty, Slater, Stempniak, )
Hanging tight.

Dal – 92 pts
IN: Niemi
OUT: Enroth, Horcoff
Haven't donae anything to address their D. Do not see em progressing till they do.

Col- 90pts
IN: Grigorenko, Zadorov, Compher
OUT: O’Reilly, McGinn, Briere, Hedja, Wilson
Same as Dal. But much weaker down the middle after losing Stastny the yr before and now ROR.

LA still has cap space to work with and players left to add. They will probably look much better once the season rolls around.

San Jose looks great on paper w/ Martin and Dillon added on defense. Goaltending is a question mark.

Minnesota -- goaltending is the big question mark again. But, last half of the season they were a top team in the league.

Winnipeg also added Burmistrov, and have a full season of Myers and Stafford. Key players Scheifele and Trouba also a year older.

Dallas was good last year with Lehtonen in net (98 pt pace), and Lehtonen had an awful year. Should be a playoff team. D is questionable, but not that bad.

Colorado also added Soderberg and Beauchemin. Soderberg should fill in ROR's spot, Beauchemin is a huge upgrade on what they were putting out on defense last year. I think Zadorov and Grigorenko (Roy connection) are big pickups too. Mackinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, Barrie all a year older.


I think we'll be in the playoff picture, but I'd say there are 6 teams well ahead of us, and we'll be in a race with 7 other teams for the last two playoff spots. I don't think we'll get in.

I think the team will play hard though, and get decent results compared to the talent on our current roster.

 

[alternate]

Voted just missed, but there are a lot of variables revolving around the youth being inserted into the line up that could go either way.

Can Baertschi or Virtanen come in and have a Horvat like rookie season?

Just how good is Horvat going to be? Can he have a Toews or Getzlaf type development curve?

Can Markstrom give us a solid 30 games?

Can a couple blueliners other than the big 3 emerge as legit top 4 options?

Can our call up depth contribute when called upon?

I'm never pro-tank, but th9s is the year to be out of the playoffs by the TDL. A sell off and an early pick in a season that sees positive contributions from a bunch of <25 year old players is what's best for business at this stage of the retool.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Calgary had literally 0 star pieces in 2012-2013. The only player that they drafted high to make an impact in this past season was Monahan. Everyone else were 2nd round pick or later. (Bennett had 0 impact on Calgary's reg season). Calgary were literally in the worst shape moving forward in the entire NHL. Traded Iginla and J Bouw for basically nothing relevant.

Basically , drafting and developing after the first round is the most important, much more important than tanking.

I don't know if Calgary is a good example considering last year was the first time in forever they made the playoffs (after finishing below the Canucks 7 seasons in a row).

Look at their best young players, Bennett (4), Monahan (6), Hamilton (8)... 3 recent top-10 picks, plus they had a winning lottery ticket in Gaudreau.

Drafting outside of the 1st round is important, but pretty much every top team has 2-3 guys who are very high draft picks that they build around.

 

[ugghhh]

I don't know if Calgary is a good example considering last year was the first time in forever they made the playoffs (after finishing below the Canucks 7 seasons in a row).

Look at their best young players, Bennett (4), Monahan (6), Hamilton (8)... 3 recent top-10 picks, plus they had a winning lottery ticket in Gaudreau.

Drafting outside of the 1st round is important, but pretty much every top team has 2-3 guys who are very high draft picks that they build around.

Yup, and two more winning lottery tickets in Giordano and Russell (to a lesser extent).

 

[y2kcanucks]

Except our prospect pool is arguably the strongest it's been in years. We legitimately have at least 9 or 10 guys whose floor is NHL.

We always tend to overrate our prospects and think they will be NHLers, and that's never the case. This team doesn't know how to develop its prospects. Until I see it, I won't believe it.

 

[Pip]

We are worse offensively and defensively from last year and we were pretty fortunate to be a playoff team last year, but I think it'll come down to goaltending. If miller sucks like he has since coming West then we are definitely a bottom feeder. If we somehow manage to get something resembling average goaltending from the Miller/Markstrom tandem then I think the twins plus Edler-Tanev will keep us out of the bottom 5.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Yup, and two more winning lottery tickets in Giordano and Russell (to a lesser extent).

I would feel a lot better about our future if we'd had the 6th overall pick in the Monahan draft and not the Virtanen draft

*Obviously this is a hypothetical situation

 

[VanillaCoke]

I'll be shocked if we finish within 10 points of the final playoff spot.
Write out this roster on paper, it's ugly.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I think we'll be somewhere between 18th and 25th overall when all is said and done next season. I don't see us as a bottom 5 team unless injuries really hit us. Pretty confident we'll be in the 5-13 slot before the lottery takes place.

 

[Ho Borvat]

We always tend to overrate our prospects and think they will be NHLers, and that's never the case. This team doesn't know how to develop its prospects. Until I see it, I won't believe it.

We have plenty of NHL prospects... its just a lot of guys with low-mid upside.

McCann, Shinkaruk, Baertschi and Virtanen mayyy become 2nd liners... Cassels looks like he can become a Brad Richardson clone and be a decent 3C. Corrado may be a top-4 guy down the line.

Horvats the only guy who really projects as a building block player though (and even hes probably your 3rd-4th best player on a legit contender)

 

[Hammer79]

They are definitely not a bottom 5 team. It's pretty clear that 2013-2014 was a blip caused by the team quitting on the coach. They aren't an elite contender, but when you look at the roster objectively they also aren't a bottom feeder. I think this backlash against certain moves is getting out of hand on this board.

I think they make the playoffs, but won't have home ice advantage in the first round.

 

[racerjoe]

If I recall correctly, most had us losing the majority of games and missing the playoffs last year too. I'm not saying I disagree with you claim, but I wouldn't write the team off just yet.

We were 1 point away from the eventual cup winners, so when it comes to the regular season, Canucks are usually pretty good. It's just the playoffs

I had them making it last year, but there is too much evidence, we are not as good as last year. Plus I look at who improved and what we lost, and I just don't see it in the cards.