Discussion: Are we a Lottery Team?

valkynax

The LEEDAR
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May 19, 2011
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Right now, in the "way too early" stages of the summer, i'd break the West down something like:

Playoff Locks:
-Chicago.
-Anaheim.
-Minnesota.
-St.Louis.

After that, it's basically a huge Royal Rumble that could shake out in pretty much any order:

Los Angeles - hard to imagine they finish as poorly as last year, but they're also still down a crucial top-4D and losing a bunch of significant players, others aging like ours, Center depth sort of whittled away...adding Lucic is going to be interesting to see which version they get - rarely have we seen scoring for a player "improve" under Sutter.

Winnipeg - seem to be a team on the rise, really strong defence and a lot of good young players, but unreliable goaltending and i think it remains to be seen how much of an impact Ehlers can have as a rookie (if he sticks). Haven't done a ton else to make themselves significantly better or worse really. Not a true juggernaut.

Dallas - still have the offensive dynamo thing going for them, even more so now, bolstered goaltending in a big way and the young defence will all be a year older and wiser, still a potential achilles heel though for sure.

Calgary - in tough to replicate last season's surprise results, adding Hamilton is obviously big, a potential full year of Bennett helps as well, not losing Giordano would be big...but then, i think these big adds probably help to compensate for some luck last year to pretty much a net-neutral.

Nashville - had a great bounce-back season last year, but the way they tailed off hard late in the year has to be concerning. One of the deepest defences in the league, but counting on replicating a lot of "break out years" offensively and a linchpin as unreliable as Ribeiro. Bit of a paper tiger.

Colorado - much improved defence which has always held them back...but expect a downgrade offensively. Iggy is a year older and he was already ancient, O'Reilly is gone, Tanguay is also ancient. Soderberg is...okay, but still a clear downgrade from O'Reilly. A lot of "potential", but still not a juggernaut looking team.

San Jose - doubt they implode like last year...but who knows, lateral looking moves in net unless Jones really breaks out, pretty much lateral moves across the board and clearly something is foul in their "locker room culture" the way things ended last year, kind of an unpredictable team as there's a ton of talent there to be much better.

And i'd put the Canucks anywhere right in and around that mix.

And then there are the "Bad Teams":

Arizona - obvious, they're the frontrunners in the Matthews sweepstakes, just a very terrible roster that showed how terrible it was down the stretch last year winning...basically never.

Edmonton - McDavid and all, their defense is still very poor. They're counting on huge years from Sekera as a #1D, and someone line Reinhart stepping straight in as an impact top-4D to really turn things around on the blueline. They still have no "top pairing". And that's not to even touch their overall team defence and the strides needed there. Don't expect that to be an overnight turnaround.


I think the West is a stacked conference in that there are really only those two "weak looking teams" this season. Every night is going to be a dogfight for position among the rest. But at the same time, among that big lump of "playoff contender" teams, there isn't a one among them that i don't think the Canucks can hang with on any given night.

It's not so much that the West is full of unbeatable Juggernaut teams, so much as the parity is just incredibly strong and set very high at essentially a "playoff team" level. Meaning...whichever way it shakes out, 5th in the West may not be that far removed from 3rd last in the West...and playoff-worthy teams are probably going to miss the playoffs again.

Key to a playoff berth is probably going to be making sure you run the table on the bottom-feeder East teams, and schedule-wise, just operating like last year...throw your best game at the most "winnable" outings, and shaking off any blowouts that happen in the "throwaway" games. And most importantly...the luck of staying healthy.

Most injured teams among those contenders are probably going to miss out in the end.

The sad thing is being a "playoff team" means precisely f*** all before the team gets the cup.

Teams that try and fail are mercilessly punished, teams that throw their arms and legs in the air expecting (and actually getting) free s**t.
 

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
21,254
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Are we a lottery team?...who knows?.....but reality is the best longer-term solution for this team would be to tank next year and then trade veterans on expiring contracts to play-off hungry teams, and reap more draft picks, hopefully some first-rounders.... but barely squeaking in and then losing in the first round to a team like Calgary just doesn't cut it.:(
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,614
84,155
Vancouver, BC
I can't envision a realistic scenario where this team makes the playoffs.

Poor starting goalie and only 3 quality defenders. Forward depth downgraded last year.

Unlikely to maintain last year's luck in terms of ridiculous record in one-goal games.

Unlikely to be as healthy as last year.

Moreover, morale in the room is bound to be very poor, which is huge. Last year's success was built off a fresh start with substantial new incoming players, and management showing confidence in the existing core. Now the core knows that management has given up on their chances of winning, and there was already unrest in the playoffs last year re: Willie's weird coaching.

Would not be surprised if things get ugly quickly.
 

Nuckles

_________
Apr 27, 2010
28,323
3,382
heck
I can't envision a realistic scenario where this team makes the playoffs.

Poor starting goalie and only 3 quality defenders. Forward depth downgraded last year.

Unlikely to maintain last year's luck in terms of ridiculous record in one-goal games.

Unlikely to be as healthy as last year.

Moreover, morale in the room is bound to be very poor, which is huge. Last year's success was built off a fresh start with substantial new incoming players, and management showing confidence in the existing core. Now the core knows that management has given up on their chances of winning, and there was already unrest in the playoffs last year re: Willie's weird coaching.

Would not be surprised if things get ugly quickly.

Also, our two best players will be another year older (35) and most likely on the decline.
 

VanillaCoke

Registered User
Oct 30, 2013
25,281
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I can't envision a realistic scenario where this team makes the playoffs.

Poor starting goalie and only 3 quality defenders. Forward depth downgraded last year.

Unlikely to maintain last year's luck in terms of ridiculous record in one-goal games.

Unlikely to be as healthy as last year.

Moreover, morale in the room is bound to be very poor, which is huge. Last year's success was built off a fresh start with substantial new incoming players, and management showing confidence in the existing core. Now the core knows that management has given up on their chances of winning, and there was already unrest in the playoffs last year re: Willie's weird coaching.

Would not be surprised if things get ugly quickly.

I fully expect things to be ugly by Christmas.
This roster on paper is laughable , the center depth is bottom 5, the defense is bottom 10, the goaltending could be a disaster if marky struggles when miller hits a rut.

The sedins, vrbata, burrows, horvat should win a few games but an injured hamhuis/edler/sedin and its lottery pick territory.
 

arsmaster*

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Also, our two best players will be another year older (35) and most likely on the decline.

I don't expect the Twins to be markedly worse than they were this past season. I do think that their health could start to become a factor, although they're still the gold standard for fitness on this team.

----

The depth has certainly gone down hill. Especially if they're looking to move Higgins out for a pick.

Horvat can eat up Richardson's minutes and hopefully Baertschi can take up Matthias' goal scoring slack.

The 20+ EN goals is unlikely to be repeated.

As are their Goals Against. Even if you expect Markstrom to come in and do what Lack did (I can't see it being as smooth as many want to believe) and that Miller will bounce back, I fully expect the team to give up more goals and score less.

I'm hopeful we're in the lottery, but I fully expect the Twins to keep us in the hunt until the deadline.
 

arsmaster*

Guest
I fully expect things to be ugly by Christmas.
This roster on paper is laughable , the center depth is bottom 5, the defense is bottom 10, the goaltending could be a disaster if marky struggles when miller hits a rut.

The sedins, vrbata, burrows, horvat should win a few games but an injured hamhuis/edler/sedin and its lottery pick territory.

The center depth is better than bottom 5, it's just not better than the middle of the pack.

They're still going to be propped up by the Twins.
 

ItsAllPartOfThePlan

Registered User
Feb 5, 2006
16,105
6
Calgary
I'd put our forward depth just above Phoenix in our division. I'd put our defense just above Edmonton in our division. So yes, looking like a lottery pick. Just hope we get lucky and win the damn lottery
 

VanillaCoke

Registered User
Oct 30, 2013
25,281
11,668
The center depth is better than bottom 5, it's just not better than the middle of the pack.

They're still going to be propped up by the Twins.

Sedin
Bonino
Horvat
Vey

You don't think that looks terribad...
Edmonton and Toronto are worse but even Carolina and Arizona have atleast equally bad C as we do.
 

arsmaster*

Guest
Sedin
Bonino
Horvat
Vey

You don't think that looks terribad...
Edmonton and Toronto are worse but even Carolina and Arizona have atleast equally bad C as we do.

When the guy on top is a top 15 scorer in the league, no I don't.

Bonino does a job and I expect Horvat to build on his rookie season.

Vey looks out of place for sure, but I think the first 3 is quality that can beat a lot of other teams.

Where we lack on line 2, we more than make up for it on line one, and line 3 has a kid who seems to be on a steep upward track.

I hope we're a lottery team, but for me that group is around middle of the pack around the league.
 

VanillaCoke

Registered User
Oct 30, 2013
25,281
11,668
When the guy on top is a top 15 scorer in the league, no I don't.

Bonino does a job and I expect Horvat to build on his rookie season.

Vey looks out of place for sure, but I think the first 3 is quality that can beat a lot of other teams.

Where we lack on line 2, we more than make up for it on line one, and line 3 has a kid who seems to be on a steep upward track.

I hope we're a lottery team, but for me that group is around middle of the pack around the league.
That's fair.
For me I see a big drop off from 1c to 2c, and then a lot of potential at 3c, then another major drop off to 4c.
 

D0ctorCool

Registered User
Dec 3, 2008
4,634
530
Vancouver
I'd put our forward depth just above Phoenix in our division. I'd put our defense just above Edmonton in our division. So yes, looking like a lottery pick. Just hope we get lucky and win the damn lottery

Pretty much. It's looking like we'll pick anywhere between 6th and 11th overall. I feel we wind up with the 8th overall pick which would be great in my books. 7th or better could happen with some luck. We'd need to fall out of the playoff race early and sell off guys like Hamhuis for that extra push. I'm pretty excited to see how it all plays out. We know Benning's a big fan of the 2016 crop, so I think it should make for a very exciting draft.

I mean... People do understand we're pretty much intentionally tanking, right? Half the UFA's are better than our existing roster. Benning knows that a tandem of Lack and Miller would fetch more wins in the short term.

We're just trying to pull of the classiest tank possible. Problem is that there are 5 other teams trying to do the same thing and they're not exactly being subtle about it.
 

ginner classic

Dammit Jim!
Mar 4, 2002
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I'd put our forward depth just above Phoenix in our division. I'd put our defense just above Edmonton in our division. So yes, looking like a lottery pick. Just hope we get lucky and win the damn lottery

Not that far off. I think our D is better than Colorado, Edmonton, and Dallas.

I still have us at 12th or 13th in the conference and we have no room for additions this summer. Other teams still have some roster spots they can fill and a few half decent UFA's available.
 

ginner classic

Dammit Jim!
Mar 4, 2002
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Pretty much. It's looking like we'll pick anywhere between 6th and 11th overall. I feel we wind up with the 8th overall pick which would be great in my books. 7th or better could happen with some luck. We'd need to fall out of the playoff race early and sell off guys like Hamhuis for that extra push. I'm pretty excited to see how it all plays out. We know Benning's a big fan of the 2016 crop, so I think it should make for a very exciting draft.

I mean... People do understand we're pretty much intentionally tanking, right? Half the UFA's are better than our existing roster. Benning knows that a tandem of Lack and Miller would fetch more wins in the short term.

We're just trying to pull of the classiest tank possible. Problem is that there are 5 other teams trying to do the same thing and they're not exactly being subtle about it.

The only active tanking teams I see this year are Arizona and Toronto. Arizona has at least made a show of it by signing some vets.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
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Make my day.
Key to a playoff berth is probably going to be making sure you run the table on the bottom-feeder East teams, and schedule-wise, just operating like last year...throw your best game at the most "winnable" outings, and shaking off any blowouts that happen in the "throwaway" games.

The downside of that strategy is the fact you focus on winning easy two point games against the East that you probably win anyway and treat a lot of key Western 4 point games as throwaways. Risky strategy.

Miller needs to step up and win big games and tough schedule games, winning those key western games, let Markstrom play the cake games. It is better to build Markstrom up mentally given his past.


And most importantly...the luck of staying healthy.

Most injured teams among those contenders are probably going to miss out in the end.

Starting healthy. That is key for most marginal teams.
 
Last edited:

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
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Make my day.
Pretty much. It's looking like we'll pick anywhere between 6th and 11th overall. I feel we wind up with the 8th overall pick which would be great in my books. 7th or better could happen with some luck. We'd need to fall out of the playoff race early and sell off guys like Hamhuis for that extra push. I'm pretty excited to see how it all plays out. We know Benning's a big fan of the 2016 crop, so I think it should make for a very exciting draft.

I mean... People do understand we're pretty much intentionally tanking, right? Half the UFA's are better than our existing roster. Benning knows that a tandem of Lack and Miller would fetch more wins in the short term.

We're just trying to pull of the classiest tank possible. Problem is that there are 5 other teams trying to do the same thing and they're not exactly being subtle about it.

Benning was genuinely shocked people didn't like his moves. He thinks the team is better. He isn't not accidentally on purpose tanking.

Benning went with Miller because he is a proven commodity, as someone size said, you get a baseline even if the ceiling is iffy. A hard core rebuild you keep the two younger guys, if goes well you get a 1st round value goaltender, it it goes horribly wrong a top 5 pick.
 

Jyrki21

2021-12-05
Sponsor
I can't envision a realistic scenario where this team makes the playoffs.
The only way I could see it happening is if there's an unusually high number of major injuries to Western Conference rivals. But, obviously, traditionally the Canucks get hit harder than anyone, and that's unlikely to change with a veteran team.

Would not be surprised if things get ugly quickly.
This... might not be a bad thing. Even if the team were better than it were, another one-season disaster would be worthwhile if it made Aquilini sour on Benning. A players' mutiny could be quite helpful here, although I suspect guys like Dorsett and Prust and their ilk to be shills/attack dogs for management and the coaching staff, and it would be the dissenters getting shipped out, like in 1997-98.
 

Just A Bit Outside

Playoffs??!
Mar 6, 2010
16,524
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The other issue with this team is injuries.

When Miller went down, Lack filled in. No one knows exactly what to expect from Markstrom if Miller goes down again.

With less depth on defense, if Edler, Tanev or Hamhuis goes down, ring the alarm.

That's not even touching the forwards where if one or both of the Sedins go down, this team will have even more trouble scoring.

It's possible this team makes the playoffs just because of the division they play in but it's essentially a battle for the 3rd spot in the division or the outside looking in IMO due to the strength of the other division in the conference.
 

PM

Glass not 1/2 full
Apr 8, 2014
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Given that Markstrom isn't as proven as Lack and Lack could barely get into games last year before Miller got injured, I see Miller starting an ungodly amount of games this year, something like 65+ and inevitably getting worn down or injured. Which probably equals out to a lottery pick and a lot of grumpy Ryan Miller interviews.
 

ItsAllPartOfThePlan

Registered User
Feb 5, 2006
16,105
6
Calgary
Not that far off. I think our D is better than Colorado, Edmonton, and Dallas.

I still have us at 12th or 13th in the conference and we have no room for additions this summer. Other teams still have some roster spots they can fill and a few half decent UFA's available.

I was ranking division only. But i think you are right. The teams you listed all have better offense that we have though, which helps balance it out.
 

ginner classic

Dammit Jim!
Mar 4, 2002
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Douglas Park
The other issue with this team is injuries.

When Miller went down, Lack filled in. No one knows exactly what to expect from Markstrom if Miller goes down again.

With less depth on defense, if Edler, Tanev or Hamhuis goes down, ring the alarm.

That's not even touching the forwards where if one or both of the Sedins go down, this team will have even more trouble scoring.

It's possible this team makes the playoffs just because of the division they play in but it's essentially a battle for the 3rd spot in the division or the outside looking in IMO due to the strength of the other division in the conference.


Significant injuries to these guys put us bottom 3 in the league - H. Sedin, Tanev, Miller
Significant injuries to these guys put us out of the playoff picture - D. Sedin Hamhuis, Edler, Bonino
Significant injuries to these guys put us in the playoffs - Sbisa, Vey
 

PM

Glass not 1/2 full
Apr 8, 2014
9,869
1,664
Man if Tanev goes down our right side would potentially be Weber, Clendening, Corrado. The horror... although at least Corrado would finally get some playing time after riding the pine for over half of last season.
 

MikeK

Registered User
Nov 10, 2008
10,694
4,194
Earth
I think a lot of people in our fan base are going to be surprised at just how much better the Oilers are going to be. No longer are they a guaranteed win opponent. SJ is about the only team in our Div who did worse than us this offseason.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
37,903
5,595
Make my day.
When the guy on top is a top 15 scorer in the league, no I don't.

Bonino does a job and I expect Horvat to build on his rookie season.

Vey looks out of place for sure, but I think the first 3 is quality that can beat a lot of other teams.

Where we lack on line 2, we more than make up for it on line one, and line 3 has a kid who seems to be on a steep upward track.

I hope we're a lottery team, but for me that group is around middle of the pack around the league.
I would rate them
=/+ sedin (+ if last year's Henrik shows up)
- Bonino
?= Horvat
- Vey


1 above average, 1 equal, 2 below average for their roles.

Horvat is a real wildcard. If he becomes a 2C next year then Bonino drops to 3C where he is equal or above average.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
37,903
5,595
Make my day.
Man if Tanev goes down our right side would potentially be Weber, Clendening, Corrado. The horror... although at least Corrado would finally get some playing time after riding the pine for over half of last season.

It would be Sbisa Weber Clendening, Bart will be the 3LD in these circumstances. I am not sure this is better.
 

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