Discouraged Pens Faithful
- Thread starter tobz
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First time poster here.
I've been a Pens fan since 83' and have played and coached hockey for more than 28 years. I've been through the glory days of the 90's and the not-so-memorable times as well. I check this site regularly and truly appreciate the insight and commentary that many users provide on such a regular basis.
That being said, it absolutely drives me ****** nuts to see the negativity that spews from this board. Fire Shero, Fire Bylsma, Orpik sucks, Gladams yadayadayada. It is truly sickening to hear so many users yanging like they've been through the trenches with these guys or something. I wonder if many have ever even laced up the skates and gone to battle with a collection of teammates?
We've got an awesome team and are laying smack downs throughout the league despite being plagued with injuries for the better part of 3 years. We've been lucky to score Sid in the lottery. We've been lucky to have Mario save the team. We've been lucky to score Nisky and Nealer in a beauty trade. We've been lucky to score Dupuis as a throw-in on the Hossa deal. Ray crushed the Hurricanes in the Stall deal. Sid and Geno are top 5 players in the league and a threat to win the scoring race every season. We've got complimentary players out the ying yang. We've received production/stability out of AHL players all season long. We are always in the running for the Presidents Trophy and are about to succeed into the playoffs for the 8th consecutive season. We have a GM who makes more great deals than bad ones. We have a coach who is a former Jack Adams winner and the winningest coach in franchise history and the head coach of an Olympic team. We've got a state of the art arena. We have an awesome ****ing franchise.
Brooks Orpik may have slowed his pace a little but he's been wearing the "A" for a few years now, is likely a rock in the dressing room, and was a born and bred draft pick of the Pens. You don't just ship guys out as soon as they have a bad 1/2 season or show signs of transitioning into a 5/6 dman rather than a 3/4 dman.
Tanner Glass is a 9th round NHL pick who has never scored more than 5 goals in an NHL season and after last night's game looks to be on pace to top that. He hits hard. He'll drop the gloves if necessary and is not any different than most 4th line players in the league.
Craig Adams is a 2-time Stanley Cup winner, penalty kill specialist who can win some draws and drop the gloves if necessary on a team that lacks toughness. He's also on a very friendly contract.
Sure it would be nice to secure a few deals before heading into the playoffs but many on this board think that you just ship in whoever you need and ship out whoever you don't need. There is a great deal of parity in this cap-structured league. Sometimes you can't just "pick up the phone" and get a deal done. If anything, other GM's in the league are likely smart on what Shero's been able to maneuver in the past and sharp not to get screwed like others have. I question whether many on here that do all the greasing have ever actually managed people, worked with a budget, or been a tested teammate working toward a common goal.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all about team, game, and trade analysis, but it sure would be nice to fade out the nonsensical criticisms and small picture management around here.
Go Pens!
OP, I could not agree more. I have been coming here to read the great topics, news and analysis for several years. There are lots of super posters here and I have learned a lot. But lately... ugh. The whining on this board has gotten out of hand. Don't worry so much, be happy about the Pens success and trust the management. Nothing is ever perfect. What we've got now is sweet. Hopefully another Cup this Spring will make it even better...
First time poster here.
I've been a Pens fan since 83' and have played and coached hockey for more than 28 years. I've been through the glory days of the 90's and the not-so-memorable times as well. I check this site regularly and truly appreciate the insight and commentary that many users provide on such a regular basis.
That being said, it absolutely drives me ****** nuts to see the negativity that spews from this board. Fire Shero, Fire Bylsma, Orpik sucks, Gladams yadayadayada. It is truly sickening to hear so many users yanging like they've been through the trenches with these guys or something. I wonder if many have ever even laced up the skates and gone to battle with a collection of teammates?
We've got an awesome team and are laying smack downs throughout the league despite being plagued with injuries for the better part of 3 years. We've been lucky to score Sid in the lottery. We've been lucky to have Mario save the team. We've been lucky to score Nisky and Nealer in a beauty trade. We've been lucky to score Dupuis as a throw-in on the Hossa deal. Ray crushed the Hurricanes in the Stall deal. Sid and Geno are top 5 players in the league and a threat to win the scoring race every season. We've got complimentary players out the ying yang. We've received production/stability out of AHL players all season long. We are always in the running for the Presidents Trophy and are about to succeed into the playoffs for the 8th consecutive season. We have a GM who makes more great deals than bad ones. We have a coach who is a former Jack Adams winner and the winningest coach in franchise history and the head coach of an Olympic team. We've got a state of the art arena. We have an awesome ****ing franchise.
Brooks Orpik may have slowed his pace a little but he's been wearing the "A" for a few years now, is likely a rock in the dressing room, and was a born and bred draft pick of the Pens. You don't just ship guys out as soon as they have a bad 1/2 season or show signs of transitioning into a 5/6 dman rather than a 3/4 dman.
Tanner Glass is a 9th round NHL pick who has never scored more than 5 goals in an NHL season and after last night's game looks to be on pace to top that. He hits hard. He'll drop the gloves if necessary and is not any different than most 4th line players in the league.
Craig Adams is a 2-time Stanley Cup winner, penalty kill specialist who can win some draws and drop the gloves if necessary on a team that lacks toughness. He's also on a very friendly contract.
Sure it would be nice to secure a few deals before heading into the playoffs but many on this board think that you just ship in whoever you need and ship out whoever you don't need. There is a great deal of parity in this cap-structured league. Sometimes you can't just "pick up the phone" and get a deal done. If anything, other GM's in the league are likely smart on what Shero's been able to maneuver in the past and sharp not to get screwed like others have. I question whether many on here that do all the greasing have ever actually managed people, worked with a budget, or been a tested teammate working toward a common goal.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all about team, game, and trade analysis, but it sure would be nice to fade out the nonsensical criticisms and small picture management around here.
Go Pens!
We complain about certain things because there are obvious flaws with the coaching staff and with management that never change because it seems like there is an arrogance of "we are gonna do things our way no matter what." The problem is that "there way" isn't working nor has it been working for the past 4 years. People complain about Adams because he is played about 12-15 minutes a night and because he is put out on the ice in key defensive situations when he really is not that great of a defensive player, in fact he is just plain bad at everything but blocking shots IMO. People complain about Tanner Glass because up until the last 2 games or so he has not been playing all that well, better then last year but still not all that well and we pay him $1.5 million. We complain about Orpik because he takes himself out of position a lot of the time to try and make a big hit and it usually ends up backfiring on him, he is also a turnover machine, but that could be used to describe a lot of players on this team. The main thing that most people hate about Bylsma is his blatant misuse of players and a total lack of accountability toward any veteran member of the team. Bennett or Megna could make the same mistakes as a guy like Adams, Glass, Orpik etc yet they would be benched and see less ice time, yet when the vets do it, they are not held to that same standard
I think everyone gets the fact the Pens have holes and some glaring deficiencies that likely will be exposed during the playoffs. We all know what and who they are. But, the OP is right on the money in that this place has become completely insufferable.
It has nothing to do with being force-fed nonsense that the buffoon Madden or the Pens media machine spew or mindlessly accepting whatever team is put on the ice or how its coached. This site is torture because a handful of posters have essentially hijacked the site with the same obvious observations and negative crap before, during and after every game. It is worse than just annoyingly negative; it is boring and tedious, and that's a shame.
It has nothing to do with being force-fed nonsense that the buffoon Madden or the Pens media machine spew or mindlessly accepting whatever team is put on the ice or how its coached. This site is torture because a handful of posters have essentially hijacked the site with the same obvious observations and negative crap before, during and after every game. It is worse than just annoyingly negative; it is boring and tedious, and that's a shame.
Til the End of Time
Registered User
there are two key points from those threads.
1. there is a certain large percentage of penguins fans that will support literally any coach thats behind the bench, as long as he's a part of the penguins organization. people are just homers-- what more proof do you need then seeing that the majority of posters refused to see edzo for what he was, which is one of the worst nhl coaches of all-time. he was a complete joke and most people were far too homerish to see it. if most people couldnt see edzo was a joke, how can we expect people to recognize that hcdb needs to be fired. some people just cannot be reached.
2. i used the word irregardless in a serious sentence. wtf was i thinking.
if people dont like these boards and find it too negative than just save everyone a lot of time and stop posting.
Coastal Kev
There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
The OP is just the arrogant, i know hockey cause i played, type of guy you can find at any local rink. ADAMS gives the Pens nothing, he was signed because he is Blysma's reminder of himself. He is old and way below average at skating, shooting, passing, fighting and checking. When an organization keeps a guy like Adams on the roster, they are not trying to win a championship. No serious organization would have signed Adams.
Last edited:
zero8771
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2012
- 2,339
- 712
Yes but do you honestly think anyone on this board who reads more than 1 post per season doesnt know who you dislike, and why?
Hophog
Registered User
I agree entirely. Tedious is the perfect word for what this site has become. It's been great up until this season but this year you have to sift through pages and pages of a topic where 70% of it is distilled down to Bylsma playing the wrong players and not being able to make adjustments. I'm sure there is some truth to this gripe but not every single topic or negative is a result of Bylsma's coaching style. It's gotten to the point that it's not worth reading all the garbage to find the 30% of good stuff.
I have been playing hockey since I was about 4 or 5 years old and ill be 23 in a month and a half so that's 18 or 19 years of hockey experience and I would never agree that Craig Adams needs to be a part of this or any championship winning team. The guy is just dead weight at this point. The only reason he is so good at blocking shots is because he is too slow to actually win a footrace for a loose puck, he really does nothing that a guy like Sill couldn't bring on that 4th line. I'm not saying you don't need grinders to win a cup because you do, but they should not be used as much as our coach uses them and they should especially not be used in key defensive situations, like protecting a 1 goal lead with 2 minutes left in the 3rd period
Don't tell me that having been around the game somehow disqualifies my ability to formulate an insightful, informed, and experience-based opinion on the game but rather suggesting that I'm some arrogant rink rat that you might have known growing up. Quite to the contrary, it's often precisely hockey-rooted people who have lived the game that can best offer the insights, experiences, and understanding of the game. There are many on this board that are valued and respected for exactly that. Settle down bud.
As for Adams, your points are all valid, and are acknowledged by most people on this board. Here's the point that you're failing to consider. Adams is likely to be squeezed out in the very near future. The fact of the matter is that while certainly possessing many of the traits that you have articulated and while Adams obviously IS on the proverbial bubble, he brings something to the "game" that validates his 4th line, meagre ES minutes each night. He has missed less that 5 games since coming to the Pens in 08-09 during a time where almost anyone with a blade on their skate has been out for extended periods; a 4th line ironman if you will. He's played an integral role on the PK which has been at or near 1st in the league since 2010-2011 with the exception of last season. Surely he's worthy of credit for this contribution alone; demonstrating a shot-blocking, defensively-aware skill set that not even "superstars" like Sid and Geno are being asked to provide. There is value there if you take him for what he is.
He's a ninth rounder who brings a veteran presence and despite lacking pugilistic skill is willing to stand in for a teammate on any give night. He has some defensive awareness, can win a draw, and is on a salary close to the league min. It's not far-fetched to suggest that he's a likeable player in the dressing room and provides some leadership in ways not observed on 200 ft. of ice each game night.
The point - we all know Adams and we all are pretty confident that his days are dwindling. In the meantime, regardless of opinions, a break from the incessant ridicule in every other thread is all that's been hoped for by more than a few on here.
I came in here to post something along these lines, but I don't need to - there's five posts on the last page that capture my thoughts almost exactly.
It's not that the criticism is off-base. It's that it's constant, cynical and condescending. It really seems like some posters here would prefer a bad game from Orpik, Adam and Glass just so they can carry on with their narrative. And if one of them does something positive, the commentary isn't positive, it's just sarcastic.
Even if I don't post often, I love reading this board because it's not a blind fan love-in session. There are smart, critical posters. But lately the pendulum has swung so far in the negative direction it is losing it's charm.
I really hope some of the regulars here will take this to heart. This place is made better by smart but varied opinions - don't scare off everybody who doesn't agree with you. And even when people do agree with you - I would love to see Orpik, Bylsma, Adams and Glass gone - that doesn't mean they want to repeat it or read it repeated on 80% of the posts in a thread.
Thanks to the mod who re-opened this debate as well.
domaug*
Registered User
nice strawman. that isn't what he said and you know it. calling someone arrogant isn't the same as invalidating their input. saying "i played hockey so i know..." is arrogant because you put yourself above other posters with a quality that is irrelevant to any discussion you were trying to start. plenty of posters you have criticized also play hockey or have played hockey, so the statement appears even more rotten than it would have otherwise.
thinking your opinion is somehow worth more recognition because you also played hockey is arrogance. calling someone arrogant over that is NOT an invalidation of their opinion.
Ragamuffin Gunner
Lost in the Flood
That's not even close to what he said. He was saying that your background doesn't automatically make your opinion better than others'. Many here have just as much experience as you, and some more.
JimmyTwoTimes
Registered User
- Apr 13, 2010
- 19,958
- 5,281
So much sensitivity in one thread. Reminds me of a nutritionist/trainer giving advice about what foods people should and shouldn't eat and the fat ***** respond with - how about enjoying life? Should I starve myself instead? Health freak!
Indirectly, the FAN was talking about this topic the other day, when discussing the Pen's and the playoffs. And I agree to a large part of what they were saying.
The point they were making was that the playoffs in the NHL, more so than any other sport, has playoffs that are a completely different animal than the regular season. Because of how the game is officiated, and played in the playoffs compared to the regular season. And that the Pen's in large part are not built for that playoff style. (as many here keep pointing out). But we can sure clean up in the regular season.
Which, and I think many in Pittsburgh have the feeling of, that the regular season is basically meaningless for how fans here judge the team. That the we have seen and expect (and sure you can lambast fans for feeling this way, that is fair) great regular seasons, but that the playoff failures, and yes, I do consider last seasons playoffs a failure with the way the Boston series went down. So yeah, I think we are spoiled to a point. I haven't had a great interest in the team this year, compared to the past. I have sold off most of my season ticket this season, and there really hasn't been a great interest in them either. I have been a die hard fan since '74, but I admit my interest in the regular season this year hasn't been strong. It will be in the playoffs. So for me that is litmus test/interest point.
The point they were making was that the playoffs in the NHL, more so than any other sport, has playoffs that are a completely different animal than the regular season. Because of how the game is officiated, and played in the playoffs compared to the regular season. And that the Pen's in large part are not built for that playoff style. (as many here keep pointing out). But we can sure clean up in the regular season.
Which, and I think many in Pittsburgh have the feeling of, that the regular season is basically meaningless for how fans here judge the team. That the we have seen and expect (and sure you can lambast fans for feeling this way, that is fair) great regular seasons, but that the playoff failures, and yes, I do consider last seasons playoffs a failure with the way the Boston series went down. So yeah, I think we are spoiled to a point. I haven't had a great interest in the team this year, compared to the past. I have sold off most of my season ticket this season, and there really hasn't been a great interest in them either. I have been a die hard fan since '74, but I admit my interest in the regular season this year hasn't been strong. It will be in the playoffs. So for me that is litmus test/interest point.
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
- Jan 29, 2004
- 34,315
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Shady Machine
Registered User
- Aug 6, 2010
- 36,704
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You have two options: 1.) Stop talking about how annoyingly negative it is around here and just leave altogether or 2.) Stop talking about how annoyingly negative it is and actually engage in analysis that provides positive insight or constructive criticism to those annoyingly negative people.
Shady Machine
Registered User
- Aug 6, 2010
- 36,704
- 8,141
The problem isn't that you played hockey, but rather that you assumed that people that disagree with you must have never "laced them up and been to battle in the trenches" or whatever weird thing you said. Look dude, a LOT of us played hockey growing up. Your opinion isn't any more valid than the rest of us because you did. Get over yourself.
Coastal Kev
There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Simply put, I hated every word out of Shero's mouth during the end of year PC last year. It was, hey, we are winning in the regular season. We have built a team that all gets along great. Mario and Ron are making a killing financially, so what's the problem??? And then he reinforced these statements by resigning the whole gang! Sorry Ray, but you didn't build squat. You added some very nice pieces that helped us win in 08, but since that time, you have dismantled a team of youth and on the rise, to team of age that looks to be one of comfort. It's not that the Pens have to win a cup for me to be happy, not at all. But I do get very angry when a team becomes complacent. 87 & 71 are in their prime. This is when you go for it. Nope, lets get more age, lets get more guys who fit into the locker room. The Pens will match up against another hot goalie in the Playoffs this year, is there anyone on this roster who can stick his nose in front of the goalie and make his life miserable?? Oh yea, I forgot, we have Adams. He'll save the day for us this year.
Florentino Ariza
Registered User
I have also literally stopped reading the forum because the negativity is out of hand and unjustified. I could name six posters whomake the same arguments every single day no matter what the team does.
Coastal Kev
There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Try to understand this, there is only one way to force a change in how a professional team operates and that is a disgruntled fanbase. Shero is relying on fans like you, he even said so in PC. Sorry that I'm not jumping on the "family" bandwagon. But I already went down the same road once with Craig Patrick. For years, all I heard around town was, how can anyone question Patrick?? He won two cups!! I would try to remind everyone I spoke to that it wasn't Patrick that won two cups, he had allot of help between Badger Bob and Scotty Bowman. And you can actually point a line to when Pens started to decline to the day Scotty left the organization. And yes, I know Ownership had a role, but that didn't come into play until the very end of the 90's.
If you don't want to hear negative input on your Pens, tough. This is a message board, this is a forum for all types of opinions. If you want, start a cheerleading board and ban anyone that is ever negative.
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
Being a regular-season stud, playoff dud has some precedence. In the 1980's, the Capitals were that type of team. In the 1990's, the St. Louis Blues were often that type of team, especially the year Chris Pronger was league MVP. In the 1970's, the Boston Bruins were that type of team, especially post-Bobby Orr. More recently, the San Jose Sharks have fallen into that pattern. So, this has happened before.
I suppose the surprising thing about this is we've actually WON as recently as 2009, and then became the all regular-season, all the time team. And I believe it is that phenomenon which is at the root of our frustrations. We all know this team can win it all, and they've done it already. So, why the regression?
I suppose the surprising thing about this is we've actually WON as recently as 2009, and then became the all regular-season, all the time team. And I believe it is that phenomenon which is at the root of our frustrations. We all know this team can win it all, and they've done it already. So, why the regression?
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