Discouraged Pens Faithful

[tobz]

First time poster here.

I've been a Pens fan since 83' and have played and coached hockey for more than 28 years. I've been through the glory days of the 90's and the not-so-memorable times as well. I check this site regularly and truly appreciate the insight and commentary that many users provide on such a regular basis.

That being said, it absolutely drives me ****** nuts to see the negativity that spews from this board. Fire Shero, Fire Bylsma, Orpik sucks, Gladams yadayadayada. It is truly sickening to hear so many users yanging like they've been through the trenches with these guys or something. I wonder if many have ever even laced up the skates and gone to battle with a collection of teammates?

We've got an awesome team and are laying smack downs throughout the league despite being plagued with injuries for the better part of 3 years. We've been lucky to score Sid in the lottery. We've been lucky to have Mario save the team. We've been lucky to score Nisky and Nealer in a beauty trade. We've been lucky to score Dupuis as a throw-in on the Hossa deal. Ray crushed the Hurricanes in the Stall deal. Sid and Geno are top 5 players in the league and a threat to win the scoring race every season. We've got complimentary players out the ying yang. We've received production/stability out of AHL players all season long. We are always in the running for the Presidents Trophy and are about to succeed into the playoffs for the 8th consecutive season. We have a GM who makes more great deals than bad ones. We have a coach who is a former Jack Adams winner and the winningest coach in franchise history and the head coach of an Olympic team. We've got a state of the art arena. We have an awesome ****ing franchise.

Brooks Orpik may have slowed his pace a little but he's been wearing the "A" for a few years now, is likely a rock in the dressing room, and was a born and bred draft pick of the Pens. You don't just ship guys out as soon as they have a bad 1/2 season or show signs of transitioning into a 5/6 dman rather than a 3/4 dman.

Tanner Glass is a 9th round NHL pick who has never scored more than 5 goals in an NHL season and after last night's game looks to be on pace to top that. He hits hard. He'll drop the gloves if necessary and is not any different than most 4th line players in the league.

Craig Adams is a 2-time Stanley Cup winner, penalty kill specialist who can win some draws and drop the gloves if necessary on a team that lacks toughness. He's also on a very friendly contract.

Sure it would be nice to secure a few deals before heading into the playoffs but many on this board think that you just ship in whoever you need and ship out whoever you don't need. There is a great deal of parity in this cap-structured league. Sometimes you can't just "pick up the phone" and get a deal done. If anything, other GM's in the league are likely smart on what Shero's been able to maneuver in the past and sharp not to get screwed like others have. I question whether many on here that do all the greasing have ever actually managed people, worked with a budget, or been a tested teammate working toward a common goal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about team, game, and trade analysis, but it sure would be nice to fade out the nonsensical criticisms and small picture management around here.

Go Pens!

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[King of the Fall]

We are a bunch of micromanagers around here. It is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of place.

But, we are fans and we are passionate. This is what we do. I do agree with you in terms of the negativity around here at times. I think we as fans have become a bit spoiled with our team. We expect near perfection every night and that is an unlikely scenario.

I do believe that this team has some flaws that should be addressed and there is nothing wrong with analyzing this team. Like I said, we aren't perfect.

When it comes down to it, we are a message board, we have constant conversation and there is only so much to talk about. So yes, we will over-think things and beat a dead horse from time to time. I think most of us around here appreciate where we are now as to where we were in the mid-2000s

 

[Rectify]

Stall

I stopped reading right here, idk why, but I hate when that mistake is made.

We complain because we care, that's basically how I look at it.

 

[specialized]

First time poster here.

I've been a Pens fan since 83' and have played and coached hockey for more than 28 years. I've been through the glory days of the 90's and the not-so-memorable times as well. I check this site regularly and truly appreciate the insight and commentary that many users provide on such a regular basis.

That being said, it absolutely drives me ****** nuts to see the negativity that spews from this board. Fire Shero, Fire Bylsma, Orpik sucks, Gladams yadayadayada. It is truly sickening to hear so many users yanging like they've been through the trenches with these guys or something. I wonder if many have ever even laced up the skates and gone to battle with a collection of teammates?

We've got an awesome team and are laying smack downs throughout the league despite being plagued with injuries for the better part of 3 years. We've been lucky to score Sid in the lottery. We've been lucky to have Mario save the team. We've been lucky to score Nisky and Nealer in a beauty trade. We've been lucky to score Dupuis as a throw-in on the Hossa deal. Ray crushed the Hurricanes in the Stall deal. Sid and Geno are top 5 players in the league and a threat to win the scoring race every season. We've got complimentary players out the ying yang. We've received production/stability out of AHL players all season long. We are always in the running for the Presidents Trophy and are about to succeed into the playoffs for the 8th consecutive season. We have a GM who makes more great deals than bad ones. We have a coach who is a former Jack Adams winner and the winningest coach in franchise history and the head coach of an Olympic team. We've got a state of the art arena. We have an awesome ****ing franchise.

Brooks Orpik may have slowed his pace a little but he's been wearing the "A" for a few years now, is likely a rock in the dressing room, and was a born and bred draft pick of the Pens. You don't just ship guys out as soon as they have a bad 1/2 season or show signs of transitioning into a 5/6 dman rather than a 3/4 dman.

Tanner Glass is a 9th round NHL pick who has never scored more than 5 goals in an NHL season and after last night's game looks to be on pace to top that. He hits hard. He'll drop the gloves if necessary and is not any different than most 4th line players in the league.

Craig Adams is a 2-time Stanley Cup winner, penalty kill specialist who can win some draws and drop the gloves if necessary on a team that lacks toughness. He's also on a very friendly contract.

Sure it would be nice to secure a few deals before heading into the playoffs but many on this board think that you just ship in whoever you need and ship out whoever you don't need. There is a great deal of parity in this cap-structured league. Sometimes you can't just "pick up the phone" and get a deal done. If anything, other GM's in the league are likely smart on what Shero's been able to maneuver in the past and sharp not to get screwed like others have. I question whether many on here that do all the greasing have ever actually managed people, worked with a budget, or been a tested teammate working toward a common goal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about team, game, and trade analysis, but it sure would be nice to fade out the nonsensical criticisms and small picture management around here.

Go Pens!

My thoughts exactly.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I don't mind posters who dislike DB Shero or any player.


The annoying part to me is when posters post everyday there hate for DB Shero or any player, i don't think you need to post every single day how much you dislike a coach or player, we already know you hate DB Shero or a specific player, you don't need to post it every single day to remind us.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

Right on, OP! I couldn't agree more. I like to think (/hope?) that all of the negative sentiment spouted off on HF is representative of a vocal minority rather than the opinions of the majority of Pens fans. I wouldn't trade any other team's ownership group, management staff, coaching staff and personnel for our team's. But some people are just never content.

 

[Shady Machine]

Discussing this team's weaknesses does not equal spoiled and ungrateful.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I feel like the first post of this thread would be Ray Shero's response if he was to post on a message board.

Following sports and rooting for a team is a tricky balancing act between reveling in the past accomplishments and looking forward to the future. I don't think there's any regular poster on this board that is dumping on anyone for what they've brought up to this point to the franchise. But in looking to the future (these upcoming playoff and beyond), you have to have a "what have you done for me lately" mentality, if not a "what are you doing for my currently" one. If you end up clinging to the past and being overly sentimental, you end up in the position the Steelers are in.

Brooks has been a favorite of mine for years. I don't take pleasure in criticizing him, but it's not like it's not warranted. There comes a point in every player's career where he starts to slip and it's time for people to accept that. He's said it himself that he's having trouble being the best he can through the grid of a season and playoffs. I don't blame him; it's one of the most brutal journeys in sports. By me saying that he should be a 3rd pairing guy isn't throwing him to the curb, it's the natural progression of things.

There's nothing more I'd like to do than to come on this board after games and give everything the team did "pluses" and the only "minuses" being sarcastic quips and jokes, but being a coach and player for your 28 years you should know that even in the best of times there are things that need to be addressed, fixed, honed and sorted out. As fans we show that we care by wanting to express our own ideas and fixes for these problems in the team we love.

From my short time on this board I've come to realize that this group of people (and maybe a couple stat fueled robots) cares about the logo on the front of the sweater and want to see that succeed, whether it be with the fixes we've advocating or with the current group that we see as fatally flawed. As long as it's that skating Penguin, we'll be ecstatic. And if they do or don't hoist the Cup at year's end, we'll be back here the next day starting it all over again.

I might have gone overboard...

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Orpik's been **** for several seasons now, getting worse as time goes on.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

Discussing this team's weaknesses does not equal spoiled and ungrateful.

Absolutely not. But would you describe the day-to-day banter on this board as "discussing the team's weaknesses?" I would describe it more as incessant whining...tantamount to being spoiled and ungrateful.

 

[Karnage420*]

hes absolutely correct.

orpik wont be traded, im sick of hearing it.

glass is decent, much better than last year.
adams is what hes always been.

too much whining about nothing.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Discussing this team's weaknesses does not equal spoiled and ungrateful.

This point often seems to get lost in the "you're not real fans if you dare criticize the team" rah! rah! parade.

 

[eXile59]

Shero & Bylsma were given Malkin & Crosby. In turn they are to provide us with cups. Not regular season victories. Stanley Cups. It's been almost a decade and we have one.

If you think people are mad now wait and see if changes aren't made and we lose again this year.

 

[Shady Machine]

Absolutely not. But would you describe the day-to-day banter on this board as "discussing the team's weaknesses?" I would describe it more as incessant whining...tantamount to being spoiled and ungrateful.

It definitely can get that way at times on here. However, when the same players make the same mistakes and the same coach struggles with the same thing and the same team deficiencies exist over and over, what else do you expect people to discuss?

Overall, I think the OP is partially right. This board gets so caught up in discussing certain player's shortcomings or mistakes that they fail to see the bigger picture and actually enjoy watching the Pens. The flipside to that is the OP defends Orpik, Glass, and Adams as if all the complaining about them is unjustified. It's not.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Guys, I was born with a hockey stick in my hands and **** hockey pucks in my diapers. Clearly my opinion is better and more informed than yours, you ungrateful spoiled losers.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I complain on here a lot. If I ever stop enjoying the games, I will stop complaining on here because I will stop watching the games. If I want to talk about the team's good record and how good Crosby is, I'll call my mom. She can have that conversation. She can't talk about why Jussi Jokinen isn't an ideal linemate for Geno when going against a team who defends in layers, why Adams is too slow to effectively cycle the puck, or why I think it would be smart to trade Letang for help on Sid's wing. So that's the stuff I talk about here.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I don't mind posters who dislike DB Shero or any player.


The annoying part to me is when posters post everyday there hate for DB Shero or any player, i don't think you need to post every single day how much you dislike a coach or player, we already know you hate DB Shero or a specific player, you don't need to post it every single day to remind us.

The funny thing is that I actually like Bylsma and Shero, and they've earned my respect. I just think a change is needed to take this team to the next level.

What gets me is when people bring out their "entitled/spoiled" strawmen. We know exactly how fortunate we are, which is why there is some urgency in our opinions.

 

[Ozz]

I'm with you. As soon as I see those things I just scan right by the posts. I can't imagine why anyone would spend such time complaining about such things.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

Shero & Bylsma were given Malkin & Crosby. In turn they are to provide us with cups. Not regular season victories. Stanley Cups. It's been almost a decade and we have one.

If you think people are mad now wait and see if changes aren't made and we lose again this year.

Hockey isn't basketball; one or two star players - even ones as good as Crosby and Malkin - do not guarantee championships. Often times, they hardly guarantee **** (see: Capitals, Washington). This team has been among the league's best for 8 consecutive years and has won a championship. Anybody who *expects* multiple championships has unreasonable expectations. There's been one repeat SC winner since Crosby entered the league. I'll settle for contender status year-in year-out and let the chips fall as they may. That's not to say that I'm 100% content with all of the decisions made by our manager/coach, but it is to say that I think it's a fantastic time to be a Pens fan.

 

[sawtooth420]

Agreed OP. I do think that the team does have some very significant concerns to address too though. I'm happy with Gladams and Sutter in our bottom 6, but we definitely need to look at adding size that can also skate. I was sad to see Rupp go because he'd be perfect on the 4th. I like Vitale, Glass, and Adams but I do not think they make a formidable 4th line. Our third line is a mess but I do like Megna for the future. I think teams are just too capable of imposing their will on us when there are bottom 6 guys who can skate and forecheck hard against our defense. There's definitely some very tough decisions to make. I love Orpik and Niskanen too. However we still have a glaring hole on Crosby's line. Shero has some very difficult decisions to make, especially in regard to the off-season when Orpik, Niskanen, Vokoun, and Glass are all unrestricted and he still has to work out a deal with Sutter. I'd definitely be very unhappy if Sutter gets more than $3.5m per season. He seems like a 10-15 goal per year type player that is good defensively, but doesn't add much physicality at all and very little offense.

 

[DegenX]

Actually, I'm really tired of people trying to tell me I'm ungrateful or spoiled because I'm not spewing the mindless rhetoric of the Pens PR machine.

I'm also tired of people starting threads on topics that are already being discussed. Because, you know, their opinion is so important that it deserves it's own thread.

But, what I am really, really, really tired of is posters complaining about other poster's complaining. How about instead of complaining about the complaining, you join in the discussion and produce a counter argument. An actual counter argument, not 'look at our record'.

These type of threads make me respect posters like RRP more than ever. He may get painted as a Bylsma homer, and I may not often agree with what he's saying, but he's (almost) always respectful and actually argues his point and counter's other's arguments instead of complaining about people complaining.

 

[IcedCapp]

There is no such thing as deserving or undeserving when it comes to fans.

That you think Craig Adams, 2-time Cup Winner, is an NHL player does not make you a good fan. It just makes you a fan who wants to cheer blindly for your team.

That's fine, it's your right. But it doesn't make you unspoiled or deserving of seeing your team win.

The only people who are deserving or undeserving of a championship are the people who work day-in and day-out to win it.

Further, the condescending, self-righteous attitude surrounding, "Craig Adams, 2-Time Cup Champion!" people is as astounding as it is ironically hysterical.

I love the Penguins and hope they win the Stanley Cup this year. My criticism is not an indication to the contrary.

In fact, I would argue the opposite: the lack of a passionate response to things I disagree with would, in my life experiences, equate apathy.

 

[Shady Machine]

Guys, I was born with a hockey stick in my hands and **** hockey pucks in my diapers. Clearly my opinion is better and more informed than yours, you ungrateful spoiled losers.

 

[Human]

I complain on here a lot. If I ever stop enjoying the games, I will stop complaining on here because I will stop watching the games. If I want to talk about the team's good record and how good Crosby is, I'll call my mom. She can have that conversation. She can't talk about why Jussi Jokinen isn't an ideal linemate for Geno when going against a team who defends in layers, why Adams is too slow to effectively cycle the puck, or why I think it would be smart to trade Letang for help on Sid's wing. So that's the stuff I talk about here.

perfectly put.

casual fans, who are the most and pay the most money, are the kind that see only the positive aspects. in here, fans tend to overthink everything because it's a fan board. it would actually be ridiculous if it weren't like this.

 

[Ogrezilla]

There is no such thing as deserving or undeserving when it comes to fans.

That you think Craig Adams, 2-time Cup Winner, is an NHL player does not make you a good fan. It just makes you a fan who wants to cheer blindly for your team.

That's fine, it's your right. But it doesn't make you unspoiled or deserving of seeing your team win.

The only people who are deserving or undeserving of a championship are the people who work day-in and day-out to win it.

Further, the condescending, self-righteous attitude surrounding, "Craig Adams, 2-Time Cup Champion!" people is as astounding as it is ironically hysterical.

I love the Penguins and hope they win the Stanley Cup this year. My criticism is not an indication to the contrary.

In fact, I would argue the opposite: the lack of a passionate response to things I disagree with would, in my life experiences, equate apathy.

I made a bunch of people mad on facebook for saying Glass sucks the other day. Penguins Single Game Hits record!