Discouraged Pens Faithful

[Houston Penguin]

My favorite is when the Pens win it is because the players played well despite Bylsma's incompetence and DB had nothing to do with it. If they lose it is 100% Bylsma's fault and he made the team play bad.

Seen that one plenty of times. For me, it's this notion that guys, including me, know this team and how it should work MORE than the men who do this everyday. No one is saying people here know nothing. Hell, that's the reason I still come here: guys like Cole who know the game. But the constant whining about the same thing makes this spot unbearable sometimes.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

The problem is one of expectations. Someone said it earlier "we expect a lot so we're justified". You're not justified (none of us are because I get pulled into the negativity vortex just like everyone else -- the negativity is infectious and we tend to feed off one another), if the expectation is not reasonable based on the reality of the roster, system, and competition.

I could be wrong but I think sometimes your Pittsburgh Pride gets the better of some folks, and you project a level of excellence onto this team or what you expect from it, that is not realistic right now. Who knows, maybe Shero works some magic and it becomes a more realistic thing in a month but right now it's not.

When there's a case of a team that spends to the cap and has the two best players in the world taking really decent discounts comparatively speaking (taking into consideration talent per $) I think the expectation for excellence is justified. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on the level of patience, the Penguins are at the very beginning stages of these long-term extensions for their star players. In one, two, three years out with the cap increasing and talent locked in I think the building process of a dynasty will take place. Understandably, many here (myself included), see the potential even now to build a highly competitive team using younger, faster players on just as cheap contracts as some of these veteran intangible kings. With the studs in their mid-to-late twenties...I get it. Why settle?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[nhindian]

Claude Lemieux is a 4 time Stanley Cup winner, with 1 more Conn Smythe than Craig Adams, can kill penalties, fights about as well as Adams (being generous to Adams) and has scored roughly 320 more goals than Adams over the span of their respective careers.

Don't want him for the fourth line either. Too old. Too slow. He's a liability that would cost you games, much like Adams single-handedly turned a 3-1 win into a 3-4 loss in Edmonton.

.

See, it's posts like these that just don't make sense. I assume you are talking about the game on January 10th that we lost in OT.

We weren't up 3-1. We were up 2-0, then EDM got a PP goal (with 5 seconds left; Adams was on the ice but had his man covered). EDM then tied it when Engo lost the puck in his skates and turned it over. We go up 3-2, then EDM ties it again from a Belov shot from the point when Adams wasn't on the ice.

Adams did make the gaffe in OT to not clear it, true. Does that count as him single-handedly turning the game from 2-0 or 2-1 or 2-2 or 3-2 or 3-3 into a 3-4 loss?

Adams' best days are easily behind him. He plays a niche role on the team and is an offensive black hole. An AHL call-up could probably step in and replace him pretty easily. There isn't a need to make hyperboles like him turning a game from 3-1 to 3-4 loss to strike home the point that he plays a very minor role on the team.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

There isn't a need to make hyperboles like him turning a game from 3-1 to 3-4 loss to strike home the point that he plays a very minor role on the team.

You would have a point if Adams weren't routinely placed on the 1st line for the 3rd period of games the Pens lead, or if he wasn't routinely on the ice in the last minute of close games, or put out for an offensive zone faceoff with 10 seconds left in a tied game 7 stanley cup final. Oh, right, the hyperbole thing. Adams role is infinitely more extensive than it should be.

 

[nhindian]

You would have a point if Adams weren't routinely placed on the 1st line for the 3rd period of games the Pens lead, or if he wasn't routinely on the ice in the last minute of close games, or put out for an offensive zone faceoff with 10 seconds left in a tied game 7 stanley cup final. Oh, right, the hyperbole thing. Adams role is infinitely more extensive than it should be.

Ok? Then he could say those things and they are valid criticisms.

Saying he single-handedly turned a 3-1 lead that we never had into a 3-4 is absurd.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Obviously any team's record would get worse if they played against the best teams every game. However, if you're saying the Pens would be a mediocre team if they played in the western conference then I disagree completely.

Pens are 10-3-1 against the west this season, and 13-2-3 two seasons ago (there were no inter conference games last season). Pens consistently beat the top teams, including a win over Aneheim this season.

The Pens are an elite team during the regular season any way you cut it. This is why the expectations are so high.

This is kind of what I'm talking about. You seem to think because we handle a couple road trips well every year and get some wins that we'd still be at the top of the conference if we had to play all those top teams several more times and all the eastern doormat teams fewer times. Sorry but it would be a grind on us / wear us down, just like it wears teams out west down.

Also, "elite regular season" doesn't mean ****. Playoff hockey is a different kind of game and we've shown over and over again that this core of skilled guys, is anything but dominant or elite the last month of the season and into the post-season, when teams ramp up their intensity. We're up and down, inconsistent... every year, every series almost. That means we're not elite in any meaningful sense of the word... it means we have deficiencies that we have failed to address from year to year.

When there's a case of a team that spends to the cap and has the two best players in the world taking really decent discounts comparatively speaking (taking into consideration talent per $) I think the expectation for excellence is justified.

Again this doesn't have much to do with anything. Spend $X does not guarantee you anything in this league, players taking discounts doesn't guarantee you anything. It's totally irrelevant to how good the team actually is as a whole. You can infer how good it "should be" because you assume any team that spends to the cap must be good... but that's not how it works.

Both of these posts kind of bear out what I'm talking about. You take these random factors that sometimes correlate with very good teams or great teams, and then you project the conclusion onto the Penguins... "we should be elite!" Doesn't work that way.

You either have the roster to be "elite" and dominate most teams most of the time, or you don't, and we don't. We're dominant in stretches but almost always when there's a mix of subpar competition involved in the various win streaks, etc. And when we don't click on the PP, we're not dominant at all... against anyone except the most doormat teams out there.

I think TR is pretty much right on: we're built for regular season success, and we even saw hints of that last summer when Shero talked about it. So if we have that as our expectation and realize we are going to need some luck to have a long playoff run, maybe we don't get so pissed off when we lose / bash on everything so much.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

edit: scratch what I wrote, will do later with right chart.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

This is kind of what I'm talking about. You seem to think because we handle a couple road trips well every year and get some wins that we'd still be at the top of the conference if we had to play all those top teams several more times and all the eastern doormat teams fewer times. Sorry but it would be a grind on us / wear us down, just like it wears teams out west down.

Also, "elite regular season" doesn't mean ****. Playoff hockey is a different kind of game and we've shown over and over again that this core of skilled guys, is anything but dominant or elite the last month of the season and into the post-season, when teams ramp up their intensity. We're up and down, inconsistent... every year, every series almost. That means we're not elite in any meaningful sense of the word... it means we have deficiencies that we have failed to address from year to year.




Again this doesn't have much to do with anything. Spend $X does not guarantee you anything in this league, players taking discounts doesn't guarantee you anything. It's totally irrelevant to how good the team actually is as a whole. You can infer how good it "should be" because you assume any team that spends to the cap must be good... but that's not how it works.

Both of these posts kind of bear out what I'm talking about. You take these random factors that sometimes correlate with very good teams or great teams, and then you project the conclusion onto the Penguins... "we should be elite!" Doesn't work that way.

You either have the roster to be "elite" and dominate most teams most of the time, or you don't, and we don't. We're dominant in stretches but almost always when there's a mix of subpar competition involved in the various win streaks, etc. And when we don't click on the PP, we're not dominant at all... against anyone except the most doormat teams out there.

I think TR is pretty much right on: we're built for regular season success, and we even saw hints of that last summer when Shero talked about it. So if we have that as our expectation and realize we are going to need some luck to have a long playoff run, maybe we don't get so pissed off when we lose / bash on everything so much.

You make it sound like it's impossible to be a good team in the western conference. Every team plays 82 games, the grind of the season takes it toll on everyone.

 

[tobz]

I have to totally agree with the OP on this one.

I guess I'm a bit of a freshman when it comes to message boards, but I'm happy to take a few slashes, spears, and hip checks throughout this thread.

That being said, I think some have missed my point. The original post was not intended to dismiss some of the shortcomings within the team, discourage critical analysis of team personnel, suggest that aforementioned players/personnel should be excused based on past laurels, or reinforce some kind of Pens PR stance as many have accused. It was intended to highlight some of the positive aspects of our franchise as well as some of the harsh realities of operating a professional sports team in a cap-restricted era.

I'm well versed in the needs of this team and as I've previously noted, would love to see some changes before the deadline to allow us to ice the best possible product for a playoff run. I'm not expecting our fan base to turn complacent/satisfied and I'm certainly not suggesting open dialogue about personnel changes be silenced.

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of intangible things that different guys bring to a cap-restricted, injury-plagued team. Despite how many have interpreted my position, I was not suggesting that Orpik, Glass, and Adams are integral/necessary components of this team, I was merely trying to identify the traits that likely keep these players in the lineup each night. I don't think it's any secret that we have capable, quality options rolling as healthy scratches or yo-yo'ing up and down from the AHL that possess more pure talent than the aforementioned. However, I merely was invoking possible insights or reasoning into why such decisions are made on a regular basis. Highlighting the intangibles that Brooksy, Glass, or Adams bring was an attempt to somehow qualify their purpose in the lineup each night. No offence intended to anyone, but there's a seed of hockey experience in me that understands what takes place behind the scenes of composing a hockey team that grants Ray and DB some warranted faith over some keyboard yielding critic who religiously raises more obvious doubts than tangible, practical solutions. The need to highlight the inefficiencies of a handful of personnel in every second thread is overkill and is a counterintuitive understanding of a cap-era team.

I guess there will always be an overly eager HF board, fantasy hockey coach to ensure that we don't forget to acknowledge the whipping boy of the week, month, or season.

 

[Al Smith]

It bears repeating IMO, that there are many people in here who think this team is better than it is, because we have Sid, Geno, Neal, and Letang. We're a GOOD team (not great or anything approximate), with a system that's designed to quickly integrate AHL call-ups during injury situations, that often looks really good against certain teams. Our special teams are really good much of the time but 5 on 5 we're far from an excellent team (if you average the effectiveness of all 4 lines), and our forward depth is actually pretty bad (even when we're healthy).

The problem is one of expectations. Someone said it earlier "we expect a lot so we're justified". You're not justified (none of us are because I get pulled into the negativity vortex just like everyone else -- the negativity is infectious and we tend to feed off one another), if the expectation is not reasonable based on the reality of the roster, system, and competition.

Also our division is putrid this year so you can throw our record out the window when gauging quality by number of wins. That's one area I disagree with the OP. We'd be an average team if we have to play Chicago, STL, Dallas etc 5x a year and LA, SJ, ANA 3-4x a year etc, and we'd be stuck right in the middle of the standings most likely. 5-6-7-ish.

I could be wrong but I think sometimes your Pittsburgh Pride gets the better of some folks, and you project a level of excellence onto this team or what you expect from it, that is not realistic right now. Who knows, maybe Shero works some magic and it becomes a more realistic thing in a month but right now it's not.

Good point about expectations. I think many here expect way too much. There are obvious problems with the team come playoff time, which is frustrating, but having sat through many horrible Pens seasons and watching some of the mediocre-bad teams that are out there now, overall Pens fans are pretty fortunate.

From the owners' perspective, the team is good enough and has the star power to sell out however many times in a row, plus generate whatever ancillary income they rake in from other sources. That's the bottom line, and playoff success is just gravy. Mario played 14 or 15 years and knows that, even with ridiculously star-studded teams (some with way more talent than today's team), playoff success is far from guaranteed.

And I'd guess the vast majority of fans out there are satisfied that the team is successful in the regular season and will go watch them play during the regular season because of that fact. Most people are disappointed when the Pens are knocked out of the playoffs, but they (like many of the players) forget about it soon enough and are right back in the stands when the team is in first place the following season. I don't think the owners care about the relatively small number of fans who carry all of the gory details of each season's playoff loss with them for the next decade.

 

[UnrealMachine]

See, it's posts like these that just don't make sense. I assume you are talking about the game on January 10th that we lost in OT.

We weren't up 3-1. We were up 2-0, then EDM got a PP goal (with 5 seconds left; Adams was on the ice but had his man covered). EDM then tied it when Engo lost the puck in his skates and turned it over. We go up 3-2, then EDM ties it again from a Belov shot from the point when Adams wasn't on the ice.

Adams did make the gaffe in OT to not clear it, true. Does that count as him single-handedly turning the game from 2-0 or 2-1 or 2-2 or 3-2 or 3-3 into a 3-4 loss?

Adams' best days are easily behind him. He plays a niche role on the team and is an offensive black hole. An AHL call-up could probably step in and replace him pretty easily. There isn't a need to make hyperboles like him turning a game from 3-1 to 3-4 loss to strike home the point that he plays a very minor role on the team.

Engelland fumbling a pass has very little to do with the team giving up that goal. It was a 3 on 3 going into the zone when Adams made a tremendous error in coverage to leave a fwd wide-open up high. If you cannot see the mistake that he made there, then I would suggest reading an elementary level book on hockey systems.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=2013020673-586-h

 

[chethejet]

Having watched the Pens from the get go and in fact go back to the Hornet days. It is terrific to have a player of Crosby's talent and how he comports himself is really something and in fact refreshing. Malkin as well. Where I see things falling off for me is Bylsma. I like him and feel he has some very good attributes. Unfortunately he is a average coach who is in over his head. That to me and the complete unawareness of Shero recognizing he is just not good enough leads me to believe failure will be the end product.

I will allow the season to play out and the expected playoffs, but at some point Mario and company have to come to grips with reality. Bylsma is not the answer to win a cup or multiple cups. Shero made a significant mis-judgement in backing him and he has to be held to account for extending him. While stability is key to winning franchises, I sense this current management team should be at risk if the franchise under performs in the playoffs. Whether they are is a matter of conjecture but they should have been told this is a make or break year for both of you. Crosby is a treat to watch but this team is very pedestrian despite winning in a division that is lacking and a conference that is a cake walk to the playoffs for a team with generational talents. The Penguins will have no shortage of GM's or coaches who would love to be here. It is time Bylsma and Shero got that message.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Again this doesn't have much to do with anything. Spend $X does not guarantee you anything in this league, players taking discounts doesn't guarantee you anything. It's totally irrelevant to how good the team actually is as a whole. You can infer how good it "should be" because you assume any team that spends to the cap must be good... but that's not how it works.

Both of these posts kind of bear out what I'm talking about. You take these random factors that sometimes correlate with very good teams or great teams, and then you project the conclusion onto the Penguins... "we should be elite!" Doesn't work that way.

You either have the roster to be "elite" and dominate most teams most of the time, or you don't, and we don't. We're dominant in stretches but almost always when there's a mix of subpar competition involved in the various win streaks, etc. And when we don't click on the PP, we're not dominant at all... against anyone except the most doormat teams out there.

I think TR is pretty much right on: we're built for regular season success, and we even saw hints of that last summer when Shero talked about it. So if we have that as our expectation and realize we are going to need some luck to have a long playoff run, maybe we don't get so pissed off when we lose / bash on everything so much.

Of course it does - it's got everything to do with it. The Pens have the two most dominant players at arguably the most important position in the game, both signed to long-term, reasonable contracts. They have a top 10 offensive defenseman coming off a season in contention for the Norris, and a 40 goal sniper at wing. They have the core in place to be elite.

The question of whether they "have an elite roster or not" isn't as simple as turning over the cards and hoping for a straight flush, only to accept the fate of a measly pair. They have the aces in the hole - trade in the scraps! The Hawks blew up their elite "roster" on more than one occasion, kept their core intact, and iced two separate elite rosters. There's no reason the Pens can't do the same.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

The issue for me continues to be how the fail and how they react to it, not the failure itself. No one should expect them to win every year, but you sure as hell don't expect them to get swept while scoring 2 goals or to throw a tantrum and run around uselessly. You then don't expect nothing to change, yet here we are.

MAF has melted down multiple times. Bylsma has proven that he can't coach this team in the playoffs multiple times. It has been shown that Crosby needs an elite winger in the playoffs and should have one in general. None of these things have been addressed. MAF is still here and once again a giant question mark. Bylsma got extended. Crosby's winger situation is still embarrassing. Shero continues to draft his defensemen and stockpiles them. We have 9 NHL level defensemen right now, you might be able to argue 10 or 11, and more in the pipeline; one plays forward, FFS.

If it wasn't the same **** I would be much easier on them.

You know what they've done? Rentals for Crosby's wing, Bylsma messed it up once, and Bennett who Bylsma won't use there and who isn't completely ready; Dupuis got extended, after KCD failed against Boston and he's 34 and speed reliant (now that speeds probably completely gone). J. Martin got hired after 4 years of failure after Bylsma and his guys got extended. They finally made Fleury see a sports psychologist and got a new goalie coach; that took two colossal implosions and 4 (kind of 5) years of decline. Oh, and they spent 2M a year on Vokoun to act as the starting goalie when Fleury broke down, there's a very good chance that it's another meltdown this year. The bottom 6 is worse than it has to be because of favouritism, we're still hanging on to a player who got scratched in the playoffs because he was so bad and the one who was done years ago got 2 more years.

That's the problem. This team has regressed and stagnated.

 

[SEALBound]

For me, the most discouraging thing is seeing Mario and Burkle sit back and watch this all happen. Wasting Sid and Geno's prime years, wasting their best chances of multiple cups, and all because they want a family, country club atmosphere.

Mario was too good of a player to only have had 2 Cups...but he wanted a country club and he got it. Was it worth pissing away more cups? Maybe for him it was...

Now he's advocating the same thing for Sid and Geno. I'm sorry, but they deserve better than that.

 

[billybudd]

Engelland fumbling a pass has very little to do with the team giving up that goal. It was a 3 on 3 going into the zone when Adams made a tremendous error in coverage to leave a fwd wide-open up high. If you cannot see the mistake that he made there, then I would suggest reading an elementary level book on hockey systems.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=2013020673-586-h

I started typing something of the sort, but came to the same conclusion when the description of a pp goal started with Adams "had his man."

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

The issue for me continues to be how the fail and how they react to it, not the failure itself. No one should expect them to win every year, but you sure as hell don't expect them to get swept while scoring 2 goals or to throw a tantrum and run around uselessly. You then don't expect nothing to change, yet here we are.

MAF has melted down multiple times. Bylsma has proven that he can't coach this team in the playoffs multiple times. It has been shown that Crosby needs an elite winger in the playoffs and should have one in general. None of these things have been addressed. MAF is still here and once again a giant question mark. Bylsma got extended. Crosby's winger situation is still embarrassing. Shero continues to draft his defensemen and stockpiles them. We have 9 NHL level defensemen right now, you might be able to argue 10 or 11, and more in the pipeline; one plays forward, FFS.

If it wasn't the same **** I would be much easier on them.

You know what they've done? Rentals for Crosby's wing, Bylsma messed it up once, and Bennett who Bylsma won't use there and who isn't completely ready; Dupuis got extended, after KCD failed against Boston and he's 34 and speed reliant (now that speeds probably completely gone). J. Martin got hired after 4 years of failure after Bylsma and his guys got extended. They finally made Fleury see a sports psychologist and got a new goalie coach; that took two colossal implosions and 4 (kind of 5) years of decline. Oh, and they spent 2M a year on Vokoun to act as the starting goalie when Fleury broke down, there's a very good chance that it's another meltdown this year. The bottom 6 is worse than it has to be because of favouritism, we're still hanging on to a player who got scratched in the playoffs because he was so bad and the one who was done years ago got 2 more years.

That's the problem. This team has regressed and stagnated.

This is pretty much perfect.

It's not THAT they lose, it's HOW they lose and WHY they lose.

 

[Coach Travis]

This guy gets it.

I used to love this board. It was an awesome community. But now it's become nothing but *****ing and moaning. Annoying as hell.

 

[cygnus47]

We don't have enough proper issues. The reality is we're spoiled, but its a reflection of the team not performing as well as we know they could be.

 

[sf expat71]

I don't understand. Are we just supposed to ignore the fact that Adams can't skate because he has two rings? Do we just excuse Orpik's chip off the wall turnovers at our own blue line because he's a Penguin through and through? It's not like we are making things up here most of the time. Why wouldn't we talk about it at a message board for the Penguins. I will argue against the general sentiment if I feel it is warranted, or I will ignore it if it's one of those cases where neither side is willing to be convinced. But I won't ever say that another isn't entitled to his/her own opinion. Rossi says everything is hunky dory, and the team will be perfect as long as we trade Malkin. You are welcome to post in the comments section of his articles if you want.

 

[nhindian]

For me, the most discouraging thing is seeing Mario and Burkle sit back and watch this all happen. Wasting Sid and Geno's prime years, wasting their best chances of multiple cups, and all because they want a family, country club atmosphere.

Mario was too good of a player to only have had 2 Cups...but he wanted a country club and he got it. Was it worth pissing away more cups? Maybe for him it was...

Now he's advocating the same thing for Sid and Geno. I'm sorry, but they deserve better than that.

Deserve? How can you sit there and say what Sid and Geno deserve?

Let's not forget that they both just resigned here long-term. Both after disappointing playoff runs, and both with hometown discounts. If they weren't happy with the situation, you'd think something would've changed, no?

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Yup. The negativity on here is annoying and keeps me away from the Pens board for the most part.

We have an amazing team with the two best players in the world, including a generational talent. We won a Cup not all that long ago.

 

[Shady Machine]

I have to totally agree with the OP on this one.

I guess I'm a bit of a freshman when it comes to message boards, but I'm happy to take a few slashes, spears, and hip checks throughout this thread.

That being said, I think some have missed my point. The original post was not intended to dismiss some of the shortcomings within the team, discourage critical analysis of team personnel, suggest that aforementioned players/personnel should be excused based on past laurels, or reinforce some kind of Pens PR stance as many have accused. It was intended to highlight some of the positive aspects of our franchise as well as some of the harsh realities of operating a professional sports team in a cap-restricted era.

If that was your point, which wasn't quite the tone I got from it, then your point is well taken. However, you are acting as though those of us that make criticisms don't understand the positive attributes of this team or organization. Some of us likely complain or harp on the same things too much, but if we spent all day saying how lucky we are, we'd have nothing to talk about. Most people here criticize the team because they care and want to see the team reach their potential.

I'm well versed in the needs of this team and as I've previously noted, would love to see some changes before the deadline to allow us to ice the best possible product for a playoff run. I'm not expecting our fan base to turn complacent/satisfied and I'm certainly not suggesting open dialogue about personnel changes be silenced.

You may not have suggested for us to become complacent but you openly questioned how many of us have ever played hockey and "gone to battle" with teammates. Yeah dude, you are the only one here that's played competitive hockey.

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of intangible things that different guys bring to a cap-restricted, injury-plagued team. Despite how many have interpreted my position, I was not suggesting that Orpik, Glass, and Adams are integral/necessary components of this team, I was merely trying to identify the traits that likely keep these players in the lineup each night. I don't think it's any secret that we have capable, quality options rolling as healthy scratches or yo-yo'ing up and down from the AHL that possess more pure talent than the aforementioned. However, I merely was invoking possible insights or reasoning into why such decisions are made on a regular basis. Highlighting the intangibles that Brooksy, Glass, or Adams bring was an attempt to somehow qualify their purpose in the lineup each night. No offence intended to anyone, but there's a seed of hockey experience in me that understands what takes place behind the scenes of composing a hockey team that grants Ray and DB some warranted faith over some keyboard yielding critic who religiously raises more obvious doubts than tangible, practical solutions. The need to highlight the inefficiencies of a handful of personnel in every second thread is overkill and is a counterintuitive understanding of a cap-era team.

Intagibles are important, but we have guys with intangibles out the ass and it's time we moved some of the older, worn down guys with intangibles to play the younger, faster, hungrier guys. The problem with your post wasn't that you highlighted their strengths, it was that you cited team achievements from long ago as proof for Adams (if I hear 2 time Cup winner Craig Adams one more time I might lose it). A lot of players on this team, and the core leadership group, have won a Cup and know what it takes to get there. We don't need old man Adams to educate them on what it takes. We need a younger, or better player, to actually go out and do what it takes.

Also, no one really cares about the "seed of hockey experience in me that understands what takes place behind the scenes of composing a hockey team". As I said before, many of us have played competitive hockey growing up and into adult hood. We understand team dynamics. So you don't need to pump your tires by speaking about your great hockey seed that gives you zero credibility here.

While I agree it is important to consider team dynamics, sometimes you need to move on from a popular locker room guy to wake up the team, shake things up, get better players, etc. Example, Colby Armstrong was Sid's best friend and a great locker room and team guy plus a fan favorite. Yet Shero moved him, Sid was just fine, and they went to the Cup finals and won a Cup the next year without him. The point is that these guys are professionals and if we benched Adams, waived Glass, and traded Orpik, the guys wouldn't stop playing well. They understand this is a business and you need to constantly get better.

 

[RH710]

For me, my attitude is with the Gods blessing us with 2 generational talents we have to win as many cups as possible. I understand it is easier said then done. But, as a fan, it is infuriating to see years of crosby and malkin's prime wasted because of inept management. We should be doing absolutely everything to win now while we have them firing on all cylinders. Not have Chuck freaking Kobasew and Tanner Glass on Crosby's wing. Not forgoing all accountability because the coach and players have favorites. It isn't that we are losing in the playoffs. It is the manner in which we do. Our glaring holes never get fixed. It isn't being spoiled. It's understanding what the real scenario it is we have with crosby and malkin. Win now. Fix mistakes. If we get beat by a better team and we played well then so be it. But we can't keep getting bounced because management will not learn.

 

[IHWR]

It is amazing how much some of you can whine about a first place team.