Dion Phaneuf Trade To Ottawa

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Leafs win by "a lot"

The trade was basically Phaneuf for 5 years at 7m a year. A terrible hit on the cap for Ottawa now and in the future.
Leafs had to eat similar cap money in Greening, Cowan and Michalek. for this season
But starting in 2017 and for four seasons. the Leafs have 7m more to spend on other players than on the decaying Phaneuf.
The only two assets besides Phanuef are the Ottawa second round pick in 2017, which got the Leafs about half of goalie Freddie Anderson and whatever Lindberg becomes.

Ottawa could have left Leafs in cap hell, but for some reason, Bryan Murray let the Leafs off the hook, and now Ottawa has Phanuef taking up about 8% of Ottawa cap for four more years than the package that was sent to the Leafs.

No way Vegas takes Phanuef, though Phanuef will likely waive his NMC for the expansion draft. Best deal could possibly do is to trade Phanuef to Vegas and Ottawa retains a 50% cap hit.

Note on the trade to Ottawa. Phaneuf had 10 teams he would willingly to trade to....The obvious 3 in California, 2 in New York, 1 in Vancouver....(film studios for wife). Why was Ottawa on list? The Leafs demanded 10 teams on the list and Phaneuf wrote Ottawa cause he thought. "No way will Ottawa trade for me." Phanuef was surprised as anyone that Ottawa had traded for him.

 

[LeafFever]

Terrible cap hit to have. He looks worse than ever.
Leafs win trade easily.

 

[613Leafer]

The guy has FIVE years left. What they're getting out of him right now and next year is the best they'll get. It's downhill from here.

And as for right now, he's currently on pace for ~20 points and has the second worst goals against / 60 among defensemen on the Sens behind only Wideman.

He has the worst shots against / 60 among defensemen on the team, and the worst CF%.

Granted, he's getting higher defensive zone starts and tougher competition. But even-so, today he's realistically only a ~4M defenceman (or arguably lower), so already heavily overpaid. In ~2-3 years, what calibre of player will he be relative to that 7M caphit?

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=21&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

 

[diceman934]

We won this trade in every way....a D man who was paid as a number one who is a 3/4. Lets look at his replacement Rielly who is making 2M a year less and is a top pair D man. So we are saving 2M a year and getting a better D man. Not to mention that Rielly has been given a leadership role as well and again it is an upgrade.

Now add in a 2nd Round pick and a prospect and we ran away with this trade. Off the ice we are 1000% better as well. For me it was a great trade. Yes we took back salary but it is all gone after this season, and along with it we now have 7M more in cap space to resign some of our future core players.

Our salary structure makes sense again and we have a lot of flexibility moving forward.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

We won this trade in every way....a D man who was paid as a number one who is a 3/4. Lets look at his replacement Rielly who is making 2M a year less and is a top pair D man. So we are saving 2M a year and getting a better D man. Not to mention that Rielly has been given a leadership role as well and again it is an upgrade.

Now add in a 2nd Round pick and a prospect and we ran away with this trade. Off the ice we are 1000% better as well. For me it was a great trade. Yes we took back salary but it is all gone after this season, and along with it we now have 7M more in cap space to resign some of our future core players.

Our salary structure makes sense again and we have a lot of flexibility moving forward.

Your blind hate for Phaneuf is well known. The trade made sense for both teams then and still does.

Sens perspective is radically different then the Leafs.

Phaneuf adds value for them because:
-They're a budget team so Phaneuf's cap hit is irrelevant
-Sens are not only trying to compete now but needing to be competitive to help draw at the gate (Phaneuf helps them win which helps sell tickets and possibly even get a round or two of playoffs)
-Sens desperately needed an upgrade on their 2nd pair to compete
-Sens needed a partner to help Ceci develop further

Ottawa moved out all of Greening & Cowen. Michalek also might not have been on their team and even if he was would have been nowhere near earning his 4 million salary. That's a lot of bad money that Ottawa subtracts from the money owed to Phaneuf over the rest of his contract.

Lindberg is a meh prospect and a 2nd round pick that's projects to be in the middle of that round has a very low chance of ever becoming anything.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

The guy has FIVE years left. What they're getting out of him right now and next year is the best they'll get. It's downhill from here.

And as for right now, he's currently on pace for ~20 points and has the second worst goals against / 60 among defensemen on the Sens behind only Wideman.

He has the worst shots against / 60 among defensemen on the team, and the worst CF%.

Granted, he's getting higher defensive zone starts and tougher competition. But even-so, today he's realistically only a ~4M defenceman (or arguably lower), so already heavily overpaid. In ~2-3 years, what calibre of player will he be relative to that 7M caphit?

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=21&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

Those numbers need some context though.

Methot gets to play on a pair with superstar Karlsson.

Phaneuf & his partner Ceci have comparable numbers. They are the pair that gets the harder defensive minutes.

The # 5 Wideman sees less than 14 minutes a game. Wideman or another Dman who got asked to play more would just mean they get exposed a heck of a lot more and their inability is why the Sens traded for Phaneuf in the first place. Kinda like us playing Hunwick more last year only meant he got exposed that much more.

 

[diceman934]

Your blind hate for Phaneuf is well known. The trade made sense for both teams then and still does.

Sens perspective is radically different then the Leafs.

Phaneuf adds value for them because:
-They're a budget team so Phaneuf's cap hit is irrelevant
-Sens are not only trying to compete now but needing to be competitive to help draw at the gate (Phaneuf helps them win which helps sell tickets and possibly even get a round or two of playoffs)
-Sens desperately needed an upgrade on their 2nd pair to compete
-Sens needed a partner to help Ceci develop further

Ottawa moved out all of Greening & Cowen. Michalek also might not have been on their team and even if he was would have been nowhere near earning his 4 million salary. That's a lot of bad money that Ottawa subtracts from the money owed to Phaneuf over the rest of his contract.

Lindberg is a meh prospect and a 2nd round pick that's projects to be in the middle of that round has a very low chance of ever becoming anything.

LOL.....Rielly is better than Dion....so we win in that regard as now our top paid D man is our best D man and at 2M less. Dions contract is among the worse in the NHL....He has 5 years left on his contract making 7.5M this year and following 4 years at 7m, 6.5m, 6.5m and 5.5m. With a NMC and a 10 team NTC. So he can not be buried in the AHL in the last 2/3 years. The fact that they are a budget team does nothing to take away from the fact that they committed more money over a longer period of time. Ottawa lost this deal on money alone.

The second round pick is half the cost of our current goalie as we traded him for 2 pick and one was the middle of our current 3 picks in the second round...so we already know the value of that pick.

Our Commitment to the 3 players we got in the deal is this year at 8.5 M this year and that is if we lose the Cowen decision...if we win it then it is 7.2M which is less than Dion's salary this year. So tell me again how we did not slam dunk not win this trade. Helping them win....how? With his 4 points?

We won this trade in every way.

 

[schenneuf]

It was obviously heavily lop-sided in our favor and we wouldn't have Matthews without making that trade.

However, ironically he'd be a decent fit for us right now. His contract is an albatross but I'd consider Michalek/Greening (cap relief expirings only, no picks) for him. Top-4 D are hard to get, and he'd provide a veteran big-body, heavy shot, tough minutes #4, nothing more, albeit heavily overpaid. It's kind of ironic, wouldn't change anything though clearly.

 

[yubbers]

we wouldn't have Matthews without making that trade.

I'd give Kessel that credit

 

[indigobuffalo]

His salary is actually less, 4.5 mil I think? Cap hit of 7 mil. For a non cap team it's not as bad but even at 4.5 mil it's a massive over payment.

Obviously Tor won the deal hands down. Ott was really desperate to make the playoffs last year and made a bad trade and it backfired big time.

I do recall them saying the trade was made with the future in mind and that they didn't expect Phaneuf to save their season.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It did indeed. Sens perspective is completely different from the Leafs as they count real dollars. Looking at it from the start of this season moving forward:

To Ottawa
Phaneuf
5 years with 33 million remaining

To Toronto
Michalek: 4 (who might have played for them but wouldn't have brought much value to a team)
Greening: 3.2 (who was buried in the AHL)
Cowen: 4.5 (who was never going to play for them again)
Total: 11.70

Phaneuf is costing Ottawa 21.30 million for 5 years (33 - 11.70) or 4.26 per year. Veteran D who make a little over 4 per year are hardly stars. Ottawa also isn't a hot spot for attracting players.

The trade made sense for both teams then just like it makes sense for both teams now.

not sure where diceman got his numbers.... these are the real numbers. 11.70 mill

As Ricky Bobby points out in real dollars Sens are paying 4.25 million over 5 years for Dion which is good for them, as they are not a cap team.

I'm going with the deal works for both sides, when you look at what Ottawa is really paying him.

 

[Crysis]

I do recall them saying the trade was made with the future in mind and that they didn't expect Phaneuf to save their season.

They must have called about Donaghey with some serious intent then.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

LOL.....Rielly is better than Dion....so we win in that regard as now our top paid D man is our best D man and at 2M less. Dions contract is among the worse in the NHL....He has 5 years left on his contract making 7.5M this year and following 4 years at 7m, 6.5m, 6.5m and 5.5m. With a NMC and a 10 team NTC. So he can not be buried in the AHL in the last 2/3 years. The fact that they are a budget team does nothing to take away from the fact that they committed more money over a longer period of time. Ottawa lost this deal on money alone.

The second round pick is half the cost of our current goalie as we traded him for 2 pick and one was the middle of our current 3 picks in the second round...so we already know the value of that pick.

Our Commitment to the 3 players we got in the deal is this year at 8.5 M this year and that is if we lose the Cowen decision...if we win it then it is 7.2M which is less than Dion's salary this year. So tell me again how we did not slam dunk not win this trade. Helping them win....how? With his 4 points?

We won this trade in every way.

Both teams won! It can be a win-win situation and this is one.

You aren't looking at it from Ottawa's perspective at all.

Ottawa isn't concerned about capspace. It's real dollars. For this year in real dollars Michalek is owed 4, Greening 3.2 and Cowen 4.5 (1.5 if Sens had of bought him out and assuming it would go through).

Teams plan budgets over multiple years. Not 1 year.

Phaneuf is playing over 22 minutes a night and a big part of why the Sens are in a playoff spot. The other options the Sens have to eat up those minutes would be getting horribly exposed or to bring in someone from the outside would have cost a lot (either in trade assets or UFA) and they'd still have 3 awful contracts.

Being competitive also helps generate additional revenue.

Ottawa doesn't have Rielly so what the heck does that have to do with the argument?

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Both teams won! It can be a win-win situation and this is one.

You aren't looking at it from Ottawa's perspective at all.

Ottawa isn't concerned about capspace. It's real dollars. For this year in real dollars Michalek is owed 4, Greening 3.2 and Cowen 4.5 (1.5 if Sens had of bought him out and assuming it would go through).

Teams plan budgets over multiple years. Not 1 year.

Phaneuf is playing over 22 minutes a night and a big part of why the Sens are in a playoff spot. The other options the Sens have to eat up those minutes would be getting horribly exposed or to bring in someone from the outside would have cost a lot (either in trade assets or UFA) and they'd still have 3 awful contracts.

Being competitive also helps generate additional revenue.

Ottawa doesn't have Rielly so what the heck does that have to do with the argument?

Exactly. Phaneuf has a big cap hit but Ottawa doesn't care about the cap hit. He's owed $33M for the rest of his deal (counting this season). Michalek, Cowen and Greening were all owed $11.7M for the rest of their contracts this season. Those plays were complete dead weight from Ottawa. Over the long term, the Sens are adding $21.3M for five years for Phaneuf - an average of $4.26M per year. And that's not counting the money we saved last year.

I'm sure the Sens are quite happy with this. Phaneuf looks a lot better on the second pairing than the #1 defenseman the Leafs tried to make him. His leadership and physiciallity on the backend has been great.

 

[hotpaws]

Both teams won! It can be a win-win situation and this is one.

You aren't looking at it from Ottawa's perspective at all.

Ottawa isn't concerned about capspace. It's real dollars. For this year in real dollars Michalek is owed 4, Greening 3.2 and Cowen 4.5 (1.5 if Sens had of bought him out and assuming it would go through).

Teams plan budgets over multiple years. Not 1 year.

Phaneuf is playing over 22 minutes a night and a big part of why the Sens are in a playoff spot.The other options the Sens have to eat up those minutes would be getting horribly exposed or to bring in someone from the outside would have cost a lot (either in trade assets or UFA) and they'd still have 3 awful contracts.

Being competitive also helps generate additional revenue.

Ottawa doesn't have Rielly so what the heck does that have to do with the argument?

Dion is playing like crap , 1 goal/4 pts -8 and his advanced stats are just as bad .

I have no idea how long a guy can live off a few good seasons at the start of career but for Dion it seems endless .

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Dion is playing like crap , 1 goal/4 pts -8 and his advanced stats are just as bad .

I have no idea how long a guy can live off a few good seasons at the start of career but for Dion it seems endless .

To give some context every Dman except superstar Karlsson and the D partner he helps carry in Methot are negative players.

As laid out in other posts Ottawa is paying Dion in real dollars to be a 2nd pairing Dman wage. Who else would be eating up those minutes for Ottawa if it wasn't Dion?

The coach clearly doesn't trust any other Dman after the top 4 as none of them average even 14 minutes a night.

Who are these great Dman with great advanced stats who didn't cost the Sens any prime trade assets (2nd rounder was the most valuable piece given up) and would only cost about 4.26 per year in real dollars? Let alone want to play for Ottawa.

 

[hotpaws]

To give some context every Dman except superstar Karlsson and the D partner he helps carry in Methot are negative players.

As laid out in other posts Ottawa is paying Dion in real dollars to be a 2nd pairing Dman wage. Who else would be eating up those minutes for Ottawa if it wasn't Dion?

The coach clearly doesn't trust any other Dman after the top 4 as none of them average even 14 minutes a night.

Who are these great Dman with great advanced stats who didn't cost the Sens any prime trade assets (2nd rounder was the most valuable piece given up) and would only cost about 4.26 per year in real dollars? Let alone want to play for Ottawa.

You can talk all you want about what he's being paid in "real dollars" (and that changes depending on whether the Cowan buyout is approved) over the course of his deal but the fact is the real benefit of the way the trade was structured money wise is only for this year .

Great D-man , hell a mediocre 2nd pair D is preferable to how DP has played this year . He's not producing any offense and is brutal on D , all of the advanced stats have confirmed this as well .

he's just a high profile name that some can't admit has regressed extremely badly over the years

 

[Ricky Bobby]

You can talk all you want about what he's being paid in "real dollars" (and that changes depending on whether the Cowan buyout is approved) over the course of his deal but the fact is the real benefit of the way the trade was structured money wise is only for this year .

Great D-man , hell a mediocre 2nd pair D is preferable to how DP has played this year . He's not producing any offense and is brutal on D , all of the advanced stats have confirmed this as well .

he's just a high profile name that some can't admit has regressed extremely badly over the years

Except Ottawa will have factored that into the full length of the Dion contract.

Dion has definitely regressed but starting this season to Ottawa after the salary dumps he's a 4.26 or worse case situation 4.86 per year contract Dman (if Ottawa had of bought out Cowen and it went through). That also doesn't count last season.

As UFAs Paul Martin got 4 years at 4.85, Jason Demers got 4 years at 4.5. Far from star money. That's the the type of money Ottawa is paying out for Dion.

 

[Frelimo]

Exactly. Phaneuf has a big cap hit but Ottawa doesn't care about the cap hit. He's owed $33M for the rest of his deal (counting this season). Michalek, Cowen and Greening were all owed $11.7M for the rest of their contracts this season. Those plays were complete dead weight from Ottawa. Over the long term, the Sens are adding $21.3M for five years for Phaneuf - an average of $4.26M per year. And that's not counting the money we saved last year.

I appreciate what you're trying to do but there is a problem with your logic. Phaneuf does not replace three players on the roster. Ottawa is not suddenly dressing 16 skaters because they moved three for one. You need to factor two additional salaries into that.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Bingo. The Sens and Leafs are working under completely different constraints (budget vs cap) and therefore the cost of having Phaneuf was different to the two teams. People who say that Toronto won handily don't understand that Phaneuf's cap hit is utterly irrelevant to Ottawa. It's definitely a good deal for the Leafs. That doesn't make it a bad deal for Ottawa.

Yea, cuz the 33M Phaneuf is owed over the 5 years he's under contract with the Sens has absolutely no impact on their budget

 

[FlareKnight]

In the end both teams had objectives going into this trade. The Leafs wanted cap flexibility, getting rid of that contract, and moving a guy not part of the future core. Ottawa wanted to get better now, clear some dead cap space, and push for the playoffs.

In the end the Leafs got what they wanted here. The guys we picked up will be gone long before Phaneuf is off the Sens cap. Worked out fine.

 

[Leafidelity]

I'm still fine with the trade long term, but we could sure use Dion playing below Zaitsev on the right side this year.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Love it. Thanks.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

I appreciate what you're trying to do but there is a problem with your logic. Phaneuf does not replace three players on the roster. Ottawa is not suddenly dressing 16 skaters because they moved three for one. You need to factor two additional salaries into that.

We were paying Greening to play in the AHL and Cowen to ride the press box. They were already replaced. Michalek, maybe. But he was usually injured or ineffective at this point.

 

[Funk21]

The trade was basically Phaneuf for 5 years at 7m a year. A terrible hit on the cap for Ottawa now and in the future.
Leafs had to eat similar cap money in Greening, Cowan and Michalek. for this season
But starting in 2017 and for four seasons. the Leafs have 7m more to spend on other players than on the decaying Phaneuf.
The only two assets besides Phanuef are the Ottawa second round pick in 2017, which got the Leafs about half of goalie Freddie Anderson and whatever Lindberg becomes.

Ottawa could have left Leafs in cap hell, but for some reason, Bryan Murray let the Leafs off the hook, and now Ottawa has Phanuef taking up about 8% of Ottawa cap for four more years than the package that was sent to the Leafs.

No way Vegas takes Phanuef, though Phanuef will likely waive his NMC for the expansion draft. Best deal could possibly do is to trade Phanuef to Vegas and Ottawa retains a 50% cap hit.

Note on the trade to Ottawa. Phaneuf had 10 teams he would willingly to trade to....The obvious 3 in California, 2 in New York, 1 in Vancouver....(film studios for wife). Why was Ottawa on list? The Leafs demanded 10 teams on the list and Phaneuf wrote Ottawa cause he thought. "No way will Ottawa trade for me." Phanuef was surprised as anyone that Ottawa had traded for him.

Why would Phaneuf want to waive his NMC to go to an Expansion team, sorry I can't see it unless his wife career really plays into the consideration because of how close Vegas is to LA La Land.