TSN: Dion almost signed? Mod warning post #277

[Duke Silver]

It would have been a stoppable shot had he had some net front support. The whole scoring chance changes when the goalie knows the player has options as he had a clear lane to the front of the net. If Dion went to the post it would have been an easy shot to stop.

{Mod}

I'm actually incredulous how you can infer it wasn't a stoppable shot because of Phaneuf.

It was a wide wrap-around from a terrible angle, along the ice, to the far side of the net. Just horrific positioning from Reimer.

Again, had Reimer made an easy save, you wouldn't be talking about Phaneuf's defensive coverage on that play.

 

[diceman934]

Its the goalies fault, Its Gunners' fault, Its Rob Ford's fault....


Everyone but Dion's ... . It was his man that scored. His FAILED assignment. Seat of the pants.

Yes it was......I do not understand why people are so quick to defend him when it was so obvious that he made a very poor decision.

 

[number72]

He's been playing the toughest minutes in the NHL and is still a plus player on a team that gives up more goals then they get. How is he poor defensively?

The Leafs have been poor defensively, but that is not all Dion Phaneuf.

Toughest minutes does not mean Phaenuf is good. Bozak gets 1C time, that doesn't make him a first line center.

Phaneuf is a 1D in the NHL. But Phaneuf is not a 1D on a cup contending team.
Bozak is a 1C in the NHL but Bozak is never a 1C on a cup contending team.


Both might be good enough to get a team to the playoffs however. But neither are good enough as 1C or 1D on a cup contending team.
Bozak might be a 3C on a cup team while Phaneuf is a 2D.

 

[diceman934]

{Mod}

I'm actually incredulous how you can infer it wasn't a stoppable shot because of Phaneuf.

It was a wide wrap-around from a terrible angle, along the ice, to the far side of the net. Just horrific positioning from Reimer.

Again, had Reimer made an easy save, you wouldn't be talking about Phaneuf's defensive coverage on that play.

{Mod}

Maybe you need to understand that the player had options and as such it changes how a goalie plays a scoring chance. Not at saying he could not have stopped that shot.

However nothing takes away from the fact that Dion played that horribly....he made a very poor decision and no matter what the outcome of that scoring chance he was the reason there was a scoring chance at all....

If Dion met him at the far post he would not have been able to create that chance is that so hard to understand?

 

[Bomber0104]

Maybe you need to understand that the player had options and as such it changes how a goalie plays a scoring chance. Not at saying he could not have stopped that shot.

However nothing takes away from the fact that Dion played that horribly....he made a very poor decision and no matter what the outcome of that scoring chance he was the reason there was a scoring chance at all....

If Dion met him at the far post he would not have been able to create that chance is that so hard to understand?

Every time anyone points out one of Dion Phaneufs innumberable **** ups...you have his panel of lawyers here on HFboards over analyze the play and resort to blaming everyone else on the ice...and when that fails, they go on youtube and show a mistake made by Niklas Lidstrom, Chris Pronger, etc. as some sort of bizarre justification.

Literally every single time...without fail.

 

[BigWilly]

Every time anyone points out one of Dion Phaneufs innumberable **** ups...you have his panel of lawyers here on HFboards over analyze the play and resort to blaming everyone else on the ice...and when that fails, they go on youtube and show a mistake made by Niklas Lidstrom, Chris Pronger, etc. as some sort of bizarre justification.

Literally every single time...without fail.

Setting up a point like this makes you sound extremely narrow minded, and not worth debating with. (Defeats the point of these boards)

Explain how showing perceived All-Star such as Lidstrom and Pronger making similar mistakes to All-Star defenseman Phaneuf is not proper justification to say that ALL defensemen make mistakes, even great ones.

 

[Bomber0104]

Toughest minutes does not mean Phaenuf is good. Bozak gets 1C time, that doesn't make him a first line center.

Phaneuf is a 1D in the NHL. But Phaneuf is not a 1D on a cup contending team.
Bozak is a 1C in the NHL but Bozak is never a 1C on a cup contending team.


Both might be good enough to get a team to the playoffs however. But neither are good enough as 1C or 1D on a cup contending team.
Bozak might be a 3C on a cup team while Phaneuf is a 2D.

Pretty hilarious, to me anyway, when people simultaneously call Dion a "shut down defenceman" and then advocate signing Dan Girardi in the off-season to play with him.

 

[number72]

Every time anyone points out one of Dion Phaneufs innumberable **** ups...you have his panel of lawyers here on HFboards over analyze the play and resort to blaming everyone else on the ice...and when that fails, they go on youtube and show a mistake made by Niklas Lidstrom, Chris Pronger, etc. as some sort of bizarre justification.

Literally every single time...without fail.

The excuse that Phaneuf is great because Lidstrom made that mistake is silly. I could defend Fraser, Lebda and Komisarek using that excuse as well.

 

[Bomber0104]

Setting up a point like this makes you sound extremely narrow minded, and not worth debating with. (Defeats the point of these boards)

Explain how showing perceived All-Star such as Lidstrom and Pronger making similar mistakes to All-Star defenseman Phaneuf is not proper justification to say that ALL defensemen make mistakes, even great ones.

Because they don't have an 82 game season highlight reel of epic brain farts and half ass plays...

True number one defencemen like Lidstrom and Pronger (worthy of franchise player money) you see make the odd epic brain fart and half ass play season-to-season...whereas Phaneuf is on a game-to-game basis.

I don't expect people to understand because they just watch their Leafs cable package and don't know or remember what a franchise defenceman looks like because it's been so long since Toronto has had one. Hopefully when Rogers has exclusive NHL coverage, they will expand the minds of Leafs fans by broadcasting many other teams more regularly.

But like I said, without fail...

Took 5 minutes.

 

[diceman934]

Setting up a point like this makes you sound extremely narrow minded, and not worth debating with. (Defeats the point of these boards)

Explain how showing perceived All-Star such as Lidstrom and Pronger making similar mistakes to All-Star defenseman Phaneuf is not proper justification to say that ALL defensemen make mistakes, even great ones.

You have only further his claim that this is the tactic that many use to defend Dion.....it is very true that all players make mistakes.....it is not the mistakes that are the issue it is the frequency, the kind and the timing of mistakes that are the issue.

In this case Dion chases his own D partner behind the net....

 

[rumman]

Bouwmeester cap was 6.7M, but was resigned by St Louis for 5.4M for 5 years.
I can't understand why 6.5M Phaneuf should be getting 7 or 8M and 8 years.

Bouwmeester like Phaneuf is 1D on most any NHL team but on a Stanley cup contending like St Louis or Kings or Hawks he is compensated and played like a 2D.

Let's sign Phaneuf to a Bouwmeester type contract and not another Clarkson onerous boat anchor that never expire.
Sure many teams would pay Phaneuf and Bouwmeester more BUT successful contending teams don't overpay (i.e St Louis).

I like the logic you've presented, and am one of the minority who thinks Dion is overpaid now. I see no way Phaneuf will sign for less, and perception is the Leafs can't afford to lose him for any reason, therefore unless Nonis has bigger stones than most GM's he'll either end up overpaying him in dollars AND term (along with no trade no movement; blah blah blah clauses ie: McCabe), or face the wrath of Leaf nation for trading him. Letting him walk is not an option IMO. Will be interesting to see what Nonis is made of because he really could make some big moves if the Leafs struggle for the remainder of the season.

 

[The Blue Devil]

I've never heard this mention of the "goofy" side of Phaneuf personality before...will try to listen for it. It's true that we fans are only exposed to glimpses of our Leafs' personalities so most things should be taken with a grain of salt. Nor should we care as the main thing is what they do for the team. Still, perceptions are what they are and Phaneuf comes across to me a basically a dick...not that it is correct or ultimately matters. But he needs better PR.

No he doesn't. I'd rather he act the way he does and have people think he's a robot, then have him say something that the media will blow up for no reason.

 

[Duke Silver]

Maybe you need to understand that the player had options and as such it changes how a goalie plays a scoring chance. Not at saying he could not have stopped that shot.

However nothing takes away from the fact that Dion played that horribly....he made a very poor decision and no matter what the outcome of that scoring chance he was the reason there was a scoring chance at all....

If Dion met him at the far post he would not have been able to create that chance is that so hard to understand?

{Mod}...... you willfully ignore logic to try and bash Phaneuf. You neglect to place blame on a goaltender who failed to make a routine save, instead choosing to manufacture a campaign against Phaneuf.

There is more than one way to play every situation, and decisions are made in real-time without the benefit of replay. He decided to support his partner in what looked like a developing lop-sided board battle behind the net. By the time Hanzal had received the puck, Phaneuf's skates were over the goal line as he went to support Gunnarsson. The puck squirted by, at which point Dion had no choice but to pressure the puck-holder, who took an unbelievably-low-percentage, bad-angle shot along the ice which got past Reimer, who could not have played the shot any smaller.

I honestly don't know why I even bother sometimes.

 

[The Blue Devil]

A Norris Trophy winner pulls his team out of such a shamble. A leader puts the team on his back and carries their ass. (I refer you to Mark Messier and NYR hattrick third period) A Stanley Cup captain does not back down and ralies the troops.

So now Phaneuf has to become as good or better then one of the best Captain's/player's of all time? Well that's setting expectations lightly.

 

[number72]

I like the logic you've presented, and am one of the minority who thinks Dion is overpaid now. I see no way Phaneuf will sign for less, and perception is the Leafs can't afford to lose him for any reason, therefore unless Nonis has bigger stones than most GM's he'll either end up overpaying him in dollars AND term (along with no trade no movement; blah blah blah clauses ie: McCabe), or face the wrath of Leaf nation for trading him. Letting him walk is not an option IMO. Will be interesting to see what Nonis is made of because he really could make some big moves if the Leafs struggle for the remainder of the season.

Plenty of players sign for less and with the same team, but I think you are correct, given the Clarkson situation, the problem with Nonis is he probably thinks Phaneuf intangibles like "leadership" and "hits" and "grit" are worth a few million so his salary will be closer to 7 or 8M.

 

[The Blue Devil]

I don't consider Karlsson a great defenseman so I don't know how that's relevant. Messier was older and had already been a proven Stanley Cup champion and leader. Are you seriously trying to tell me he isn't a quality leader??
Just because a team is **** doesn't mean the leader is horrible. But the leafs shouldn't be ****, they have a bunch of players who have played some amazing hockey but come off as unmotivated, lazy or uninterested. That's a leadership issue no matter how you want to defend it. My expectation is a cup eventually, to do that we need a better Captain than Phaneuf.

Considering he said he doesn't think Phaneuf is a Messier caliber leader, I would say that he didn't.

 

[diceman934]

.... you willfully ignore logic to try and bash Phaneuf. You neglect to place blame on a goaltender who failed to make a routine save, instead choosing to manufacture a campaign against Phaneuf.

There is more than one way to play every situation, and decisions are made in real-time without the benefit of replay. He decided to support his partner in what looked like a developing board battle behind the net. By the time Hanzal had received the puck, Phaneuf's skates were over the goal line as he went to support Gunnarsson. The puck squirted by, at which point Dion had no choice but to pressure the puck-holder, who took an unbelievably-low-percentage, bad-angle shot along the ice which got past Reimer, who could not have played the shot any smaller.

Dion followed his D partner behind the net before the puck battle even began.....I was not ignoring logic .....I was telling the truth.....Dion screwed up by chasing his D partner behind the net....and allowed Hanzel a free path to the front of the net.....and you blindly trying to pass the blame on to others for his mistake and have the gull to call me ignorant.

If a player has options when they have a scoring chance.....they have a better chance of scoring, had Dion took away the front of the net as an option he never would have been able to get his stick out that far pass the goal line to score that goal.....could it have been stopped....yes but you fail to understand that the player had options that were created by a poor decision.

Watch it again:

 

[Bomber0104]

.... you willfully ignore logic to try and bash Phaneuf. You neglect to place blame on a goaltender who failed to make a routine save, instead choosing to manufacture a campaign against Phaneuf.

There is more than one way to play every situation, and decisions are made in real-time without the benefit of replay. He decided to support his partner in what looked like a developing lop-sided board battle behind the net. By the time Hanzal had received the puck, Phaneuf's skates were over the goal line as he went to support Gunnarsson. The puck squirted by, at which point Dion had no choice but to pressure the puck-holder, who took an unbelievably-low-percentage, bad-angle shot along the ice which got past Reimer, who could not have played the shot any smaller.

I honestly don't know why I even bother sometimes.

Blah blah blah....excuse after excuse...that's all Phaneuf's lawyers have.

What about the game before against Panthers?

Literally one game before the Phoenix one.



2 minute mark.

What's the excuse there?

Let me guess...Raymond's fault.

Not Dion's.

Is that a $7 million dollar effort right there? Be honest.

 

[Tavares to Marner]

Blah blah blah....excuse after excuse...that's all Phaneuf's lawyers have.

What about the game before against Panthers?

Literally one game before the Phoenix one.



2 minute mark.

What's the excuse there?

Let me guess...Raymond's fault.

Not Dion's.

Is that a $7 million dollar effort right there? Be honest.

It was his sticks fault.

 

[Duke Silver]

Dion followed his D partner behind the net before the puck battle even began.....I was not ignoring logic .....I was telling the truth.....Dion screwed up by chasing his D partner behind the net....and allowed Hanzel a free path to the front of the net.....and you blindly trying to pass the blame on to others for his mistake and have the gull to call me ignorant.

If a player has options when they have a scoring chance.....they have a better chance of scoring, had Dion took away the front of the net as an option he never would have been able to get his stick out that far pass the goal line to score that goal.....could it have been stopped....yes but you fail to understand that the player had options that were created by a poor decision.

Watch it again:

Oh I can grasp the concept of your answer quite clearly, and I see right through it. It's laughable you try to pass this sort of BS off as objective.

BLINDLY try to pass the blame onto others?! Pot meet kettle. You're BLINDLY creating blame. Answer me two questions: Did Reimer mis-play the shot or not? Did Phaneuf put Reimer in a situation where he was forced to make a difficult save?

 

[DD03]

People place the blame solely on one player. It's a team effort.

That pass by Raymond is a bad idea no matter who's back there, but Dion's effort is definitely called into question there. He upped his effort last night though, even with a questionable goal either way. The team as a whole needs to play better in order to minimize these mistakes.

Dion isn't the only one who makes these mistakes, but he's still a quality defenseman.

 

[Warden of the North]

Norris calibre dmen make mistakes. We made Duncan Keith look like Mark Fraser last weekend.

Go ask Ottawa fans how they feel about Karlsson in the defensive zone.

 

[JackJ]

Norris calibre dmen make mistakes. We made Duncan Keith look like Mark Fraser last weekend.

Go ask Ottawa fans how they feel about Karlsson in the defensive zone.

Like Scott Stevens, Dion needs to become a tough defensive force paired with a rushing defenceman. Dion has never been able to grasp a complete two way game. With him, its either or.

 

[DaveT83*]

Norris calibre dmen make mistakes. We made Duncan Keith look like Mark Fraser last weekend.

Go ask Ottawa fans how they feel about Karlsson in the defensive zone.

Keith has 2 cup rings - he's earned the right to have a bad night from time to time.

Dion has earned nothing.

ts a cruel world.

 

[34]

Yes it was......I do not understand why people are so quick to defend him when it was so obvious that he made a very poor decision.

Its because they are trying to state his claim for the $100M contract. Its a joke, Dion is not worth more than $4M/season. I don't care what anyone says, he is not a top Defender in the NHL. Just becaise he turned up the radio in the dressing room, that makes him a captain.. LMAO.