TSN: Dion almost signed? Mod warning post #277

[number72]

Like Scott Stevens, Dion needs to become a tough defensive force paired with a rushing defenceman. Dion has never been able to grasp a complete two way game. With him, its either or.

The problem I have with these "comparisons" of Phaneuf to Lidstrom and Chara is that a player like Chara can make a young player like Krug or Hamilton seem servicable. In fact, Markov make Komisarek (yes that Komisarek) look like a top 4D.

Phaneuf has never shown the ability to carry a similar young player or even experienced player in the same way. Phaneuf needs a decent partner like Beuachimen or Gunnar to look passable whereas Lidstrom can carry Ian White or a barely servicable 6/7th guy who is no longer in the NHL or even a young inexperienced player.

 

[Gallagbi]

Dion followed his D partner behind the net before the puck battle even began.....I was not ignoring logic .....I was telling the truth.....Dion screwed up by chasing his D partner behind the net....and allowed Hanzel a free path to the front of the net.....and you blindly trying to pass the blame on to others for his mistake and have the gull to call me ignorant.

It's an awful route to get to Hanzal, but there's no free path to the net because Clarkson is supporting infront. Hanzal throws a puck at the net while Dion gains inside-out position on him.

Phaneuf should have played it better instead of drifting to support Gunnar, but he's not in awful position, he's a half-step from where he should be and he gets there right as Hanzal finishes the play. You act like he was chasing Hanzal the whole way across the net. Hanzal's forced to make a quick side of the net play that should have been a routine save.

 

[Pi]

I like Dion and wouldn't be mad at giving him 7M but there are moments in the game, especially late in the 2nd and most of the 3rd period where he's just lazy out there. He loses coverage, he doesn't attempt to be physical, he shies away from contact. It's the ugly part of Phaneuf's game.

Hopefully the emergence of Gardiner and Rielly will help with Phaneuf's inefficiencies.

 

[DD03]

The problem I have with these "comparisons" of Phaneuf to Lidstrom and Chara is that a player like Chara can make a young player like Krug or Hamilton seem servicable. In fact, Markov make Komisarek (yes that Komisarek) look like a top 4D.

Phaneuf has never shown the ability to carry a similar young player or even experienced player in the same way. Phaneuf needs a decent partner like Beuachimen or Gunnar to look passable whereas Lidstrom can carry Ian White or a barely servicable 6/7th guy who is no longer in the NHL or even a young inexperienced player.

Phaneuf will become more positionally sound like the players you mentioned in time. Until that time, he still goes for big hits, and he still pinches in.. It's not like Gunnarsson is an amazing defenseman either. He's just lucky enough and makes less mistakes then the rest of the Leafs defense. We've seen Rielly and Gardiner, along with Franson paired with Dion at some point in time.

All defensemen need help. Chara didn't play with Hamilton during the playoffs as often. Plus Hamilton is a special kind of defenseman that the Leafs don't have.

Lidstrom didn't win the Cup with Ian White and that's probably one of the reasons why. Yes these players played with these guys but they didn't win the Cup doing so. Chara won the Cup with Seidenberg as his partner.. and a much better team in front of him. Lidstrom won the Cups with some of nicest built teams around and Kronwall who is now a #1 that he is gone, playing behind him. So what if Dion needs help?

 

[Mimico]

Its because they are trying to state his claim for the $100M contract. Its a joke, Dion is not worth more than $4M/season. I don't care what anyone says, he is not a top Defender in the NHL. Just becaise he turned up the radio in the dressing room, that makes him a captain.. LMAO.

Goodness ****in gracious! Like it or not Dion will be signed to a 7x7 contract, mind you by a group of people who currently make a living evaluating NHL talent.

 

[number72]

Phaneuf will become more positionally sound like the players you mentioned in time. Until that time, he still goes for big hits, and he still pinches in.. It's not like Gunnarsson is an amazing defenseman either. He's just lucky enough and makes less mistakes then the rest of the Leafs defense. We've seen Rielly and Gardiner, along with Franson paired with Dion at some point in time.

All defensemen need help. Chara didn't play with Hamilton during the playoffs as often. Plus Hamilton is a special kind of defenseman that the Leafs don't have.

Lidstrom didn't win the Cup with Ian White and that's probably one of the reasons why. Yes these players played with these guys but they didn't win the Cup doing so. Chara won the Cup with Seidenberg as his partner.. and a much better team in front of him. Lidstrom won the Cups with some of nicest built teams around and Kronwall who is now a #1 that he is gone, playing behind him. So what if Dion needs help?

The fact is Lidstrom/White looked like a very good defensive pair whereas Phaneuf/Hozler/Kostka was garbage.

But that aside, Phaneuf is closer to Bouwmeester as a 2D on a cup contending team then to Doughty or Chara as a #1D on cup contending team.

If we don't pay Phaneuf as a #1D on a cup contending team, then we have money to either sign'trade/develop and pay for a #1D. Or perhaps we can sign a very good Seidenberg quality partner for him to play with to cover up his deficiencies. Give Phaneuf 7 or 8M and then he will be stuck playing with Gunnar or Kostka or whatever defender we can fit under the cap.

 

[DD03]

The fact is Lidstrom/White looked like a very good defensive pair whereas Phaneuf/Hozler/Kostka was garbage.

But that aside, Phaneuf is closer to Bouwmeester as a 2D on a cup contending team then to Doughty or Chara as a #1D on cup contending team.

If we don't pay Phaneuf as a #1D on a cup contending team, then we have money to either sign'trade/develop and pay for a #1D. Or perhaps we can sign a very good Seidenberg quality partner for him to play with to cover up his deficiencies. Give Phaneuf 7 or 8M and then he will be stuck playing with Gunnar or Kostka or whatever defender we can fit under the cap.

Or you'd be a little less short sighted and understand where the cap is going to be in a few years making Dion's contract all the less hindering..

Gunnarsson makes a little bit less then Seidenberg.. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I'd rather pay Seidenberg then Gunnarsson. Our team would be oodles better on that upgrade alone.

 

[Bomber0104]

Or you'd be a little less short sighted and understand where the cap is going to be in a few years making Dion's contract all the less hindering..

So he will account for 10% of the Leaf's capspace this year with a $6.5 million cap hit to 10% of the cap next year with a $7 million cap hit.

Nothing has changed.

 

[number72]

Or you'd be a little less short sighted and understand where the cap is going to be in a few years making Dion's contract all the less hindering..

Gunnarsson makes a little bit less then Seidenberg.. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I'd rather pay Seidenberg then Gunnarsson. Our team would be oodles better on that upgrade alone.

Yes so we can keep giving elite and above average salaries to our medicore/above average talent (Bozak 4M, clarkson 5m, Phaneuf at 7 or 8m) and still be competitive with teams like the Bruins, Hawks, Blues or Kings who have much better salaries and talent. The leafs have a limited amount of cap space that needs to managed wisely.

This is what I don't get. Why are we giving players like Phaneuf, Bozak and Clarkson who have defects in their game prime contracts when no cup competitive team would do the same for that level of player.

 

[Bomber0104]

Yes so we can keep giving elite and above average salaries to our medicore/above average talent (Bozak 4M, clarkson 5m, Phaneuf at 7 or 8m) and still be competitive with teams like the Bruins, Hawks, Blues or Kings who have much better salaries and talent. The leafs have a limited amount of cap space that needs to managed wisely.

This is what I don't get. Why are we giving players like Phaneuf, Bozak and Clarkson prime contracts when no cup competitive team would do the same for that level of player.

Precisely.

Pretending that complimentary players are franchise-level players...and paying them accordingly...is no way to go about managing a team in today's NHL.

That is the exact opposite of what you need to be doing.

 

[Mimico]

You are suggesting...Dion Phaneuf...being paid FRANCHISE player money in present time...is somehow underrated?

Is this some sort of sick twisted joke?

7 million is not franchise player money, not in today's NHL. That is approximately 9.85% of the projected 2014-2015 salary cap (the first year of Phaneuf's deal). That makes $7 million today equivalent to $5.6 million in 2008-2009, the first year of Dion's $6.5 million long term deal in Calgary ($56.4 million cap).

 

[number72]

7 million is not franchise player money, not in today's NHL. That is approximately 9.85% of the projected 2014-2015 salary cap (the first year of Phaneuf's deal). That makes $7 million today equivalent to $5.6 million the year Dion signed his $6.5 million long term deal in Calgary ($56.4 million cap).

This depends if you are comparing the leafs to wildcard teams or cup contending teams.

The blues, a cup contender are paying Bouwmeester who made more then Phaneuf last year, 5.4M for a 5 year contract.

As a comparable a wild card team like the Panthers are paying Campbell a franchise salary over 7M.


Which contract and which team would you prefer?

 

[Bomber0104]

7 million is not franchise player money, not in today's NHL. That is approximately 9.85% of the projected 2014-2015 salary cap (the first year of Phaneuf's deal). That makes $7 million today equivalent to $5.6 million in 2008-2009, the first year of Dion's $6.5 million long term deal in Calgary ($56.4 million cap).

When you are making 1/10th of your team's available salary...I am sorry...but in a league with 21 to 23 players on a team that is franchise player money.

Whether you want to split hairs on what constitutes franchise level money...that is your choice.

Myself...when you strip away 10%....you better be the best player on the team.

Dion Phaneuf is not the best player on this team on any given night.

He is not the reason we win games.

More often, he is the reason we lose games.

 

[Mimico]

When you are making 1/10th of your team's available salary...I am sorry...but in a league with 21 to 23 players on a team that is franchise player money.

Whether you want to split hairs on what constitutes franchise level money...that is your choice.

Myself...when you strip away 10%....you better be the best player on the team.

Dion Phaneuf is not the best player on this team on any given night.

He is not the reason we win games.

More often, he is the reason we lose games.

He is our best defenseman, well worth 10% of the cap. I would LOVE to see where you rank him among our current D and among our current group of skaters.

 

[Bomber0104]

He is our best defenseman, well worth 10% of the cap.

Why? Because he is the best on the Leafs?

How does that equivocate him with other franchise defencemen on good teams?

Has it occurred to you that the reason some teams are successful is because those teams are ELEVATED to that level because of said franchise defencemen?

I would LOVE to see where you rank him among our current D and among our current group of skaters.

He is above average. But since the Leafs are an average team...what does that really mean in the end?

 

[Mimico]

Why? Because he is the best on the Leafs?

How does that equivocate him with other franchise defencemen on good teams?

Has it occurred to you that the reason some teams are successful is because those teams are ELEVATED to that level because of said franchise defencemen?



He is above average. But since the Leafs are an average team...what does that really mean in the end?

He is the undisputed top defender on a playoff team and a top 15 defenceman in the NHL. Above-average is a bit of an understatement.

 

[Parkdale]

He the undisputed top defender on a playoff team and a top 15 defenceman in the NHL. Above-average is a bit of an understatement.

I hope we can get comparable value for him if he is indeed traded. Time will tell...both whether he is traded and what comes back in return.

 

[Bomber0104]

He the undisputed top defender on a playoff team and a top 15 defenceman in the NHL. Above-average is a bit of an understatement.

An above average player on an average team.

Nothing to see here. Not even on Team Canada's radar.

$5 million or ship him out.

$2 million saved over 7 years would be substantial for our franchise going forward, especially since Phaneuf's game should be expected to decline.

 

[Confucius]

He is the undisputed top defender on a playoff team and a top 15 defenceman in the NHL. Above-average is a bit of an understatement.

Seems to be plenty of dispute

 

[Mimico]

An above average player on an average team.

Nothing to see here.

$5 million or ship him out.

$2 million saved over 7 years would be substantial for our franchise going forward, especially since Phaneuf's game should be expected to decline.

I'm sorry but this statement is just plain wrong ...

You're welcome --> http://theleafsnation.com/2013/11/7/assessing-the-value-of-dion-phaneuf

 

[Bomber0104]

I'm sorry but this statement is just plain wrong ...

You're welcome --> http://theleafsnation.com/2013/11/7/assessing-the-value-of-dion-phaneuf

Awful article.

And further demonstrates how incomparable Dion Phaneuf is to real franchise players.

 

[cyris]

We are done here.
The conversation is played out I have warned this tread or people in multiple times to critique the opinion, not the person. That message doesn't seem to be taking hold with some of you.

It has been a week since this report came out clearly he isnt that close to getting signed.