Post-Game Talk: Different night, same movie. 4-1 Jets over Canucks

[Hit the post]

Of course it is. Benning even admitted that he could've traded Miller.

Biggest load of BS that ever came out of Benning's mouth (edit: ok, maybe it isn't....Sbisa is a potential top four D take that honor).

 

[Reign Nateo]

Of course it is. Benning even admitted that he could've traded Miller.

Did he say that trade would have cut payroll? There's a good chance if there was a trade available, the Canucks would be taking salary back.

You seen many 6 million dollar salaries dumped for free lately?

 

[Huggy]

Hfcanucks:

How much salary payroll the team has> wins/losses

 

[Alan Jackson]

You're not responding to my point. They weren't scoring but were called dominant because of their Corsi. So then do you say they were dominated last night?

I think they dominate most nights, though not as often as when they were younger. Sometimes the puck doesn't go in.

You can play well and not score.

Yes, I think they were pretty good last night. I don't put very much stock in individual possession stats, if that's what your asking.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Could have cut payroll by moving Miller instead of Lack. Also by not signing Bartkowski or Sbisa to those idiotic deals. And by not acquiring Prust,

Again, I'm sure IF there was actually a market for Miller, and that's a big IF, I doubt there was no salary coming back to Vancouver.

Lack is the new Santorelli around here I guess. The one that got away...

You have to fill out a roster, Prust is an expiring contract, think like NBA teams do. Future cap space has value now. Those guys are short term, they fill out the roster and don't change the direction of the team.

I have nothing to say about the Sbisa deal as I consider it to be the strangest contract in our team's history.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I think they dominate most nights, though not as often as when they were younger. Sometimes the puck doesn't go in.

You can play well and not score.

Yes, I think they were pretty good last night. I don't put very much stock in individual possession stats, if that's what your asking.

Great, glad you agree then that they weren't that great in the Calgary series and we can put less stock in their Corsi numbers.

 

[Alan Jackson]

Did he say that trade would have cut payroll? There's a good chance if there was a trade available, the Canucks would be taking salary back.

You seen many 6 million dollar salaries dumped for free lately?

Exactly. I'm sure they could have traded Miller. He didn't say what other teams were offering or how much salary might have been retained.

 

[Alan Jackson]

Great, glad you agree then that they weren't that great in the Calgary series and we can put less stock in their Corsi numbers.

Obtuse is a good word.

Anyhow, I think they played fine against Calgary. Sometimes, the puck doesn't go in.

You can put as little or as much stock as you like in their Corsi numbers. It won't bother me one bit.

 

[Hit the post]

Exactly. I'm sure they could have traded Miller. He didn't say what other teams were offering or how much salary might have been retained.

Not sure why he'd mention such a "offer" in the first place if it meant the Canucks had to retain the majority of Miller's salary (only situation where I could see Miller attracting any kind of interest)

 

[y2kcanucks]

Obtuse is a good word.

Anyhow, I think they played fine against Calgary. Sometimes, the puck doesn't go in.

You can put as little or as much stock as you like in their Corsi numbers. It won't bother me one bit.

Moving the goal posts is a cool concept.

Anyway, I disagree with you because I think our offensive leaders should be that. Last night they were the only ones who were dangerous most of the night. They even generated a goal. Cool. But by the standard that people like you established during the Calgary series they were dominated. Sometimes pucks go in.

 

[Proto]

Virtanen just isn't showing the jam of a Nikolaj Ehlers to bounce back from tough physical play and stick to his game. He looks a bit scared out there and is shying away from traffic areas. His shot also looks to be degraded since his shoulder injury last season.

No question in my mind he should have been returned to junior after camp but was kept because keeping McCann and sending Jake back would have been seen as a PR nightmare. He has to go to the World Junior camp and then be returned to junior before he burns a year of control.

Agree with everything MS said earlier about the way Desjardins coached this game. It's vapid.

 

[Alan Jackson]

Moving the goal posts is a cool concept.

Anyway, I disagree with you because I think our offensive leaders should be that. Last night they were the only ones who were dangerous most of the night. They even generated a goal. Cool. But by the standard that people like you established during the Calgary series they were dominated. Sometimes pucks go in.

"People like me". Heh. The ones with common sense, I suppose.

Listen, I have to be honest, I don't quite know what your argument is, so I'll just leave this be. You can go back to writing up whichever Sedin trade proposals you were working on. Sorry to have interrupted you.

 

[opendoor]

It's almost impossible to cut payroll right now.

Look around the league, most teams are right up against their budgets and has guys they'd love to dump. It just doesn't work like that anymore.

You'd have a point if Benning didn't sign a bunch of these deals just a few months ago. Sbisa and Dorsett could easily be replaced by guys making 1/3rd as much with little to no dropoff on the ice (not that the latter really matters when we're talking about management that apparently didn't expect to make the playoffs). That's $4-4.5M in ownership's pocket right there. Then if they didn't re-sign Vey just to pay him $1M to play for the Comets they'd have another million. That's basically 2 rounds of playoff revenue right there just by being slightly more astute with the money getting handed out in this last offseason.

 

[HankNDank]

Moving the goal posts is a cool concept.

Anyway, I disagree with you because I think our offensive leaders should be that. Last night they were the only ones who were dangerous most of the night. They even generated a goal. Cool. But by the standard that people like you established during the Calgary series they were dominated. Sometimes pucks go in.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?reportType=season&report=skatersummary&season=20152016&gameType=2&sort=points&aggregate=0&teamId=23&pos=S

Oh look at that, our offensive leaders are in fact leading our team in offense. Hmph.

 

[Reign Nateo]

You'd have a point if Benning didn't sign a bunch of these deals just a few months ago. Sbisa and Dorsett could easily be replaced by guys making 1/3rd as much with little to no dropoff on the ice (not that the latter really matters when we're talking about management that apparently didn't expect to make the playoffs). That's $4-4.5M in ownership's pocket right there. Then if they didn't re-sign Vey just to pay him $1M to play for the Comets they'd have another million. That's basically 2 rounds of playoff revenue right there just by being slightly more astute with the money getting handed out in this last offseason.

Without getting into managerial decisions (you could argue those for days and we do around here enough as it is), it should always be an organization's operative to make the playoffs.

 

[CanaFan]

Without getting into managerial decisions (you could argue those for days and we do around here enough as it is), it should always be an organization's operative to make the playoffs.

I think there needs to be a dose of context and realism applied to that edict.

If a team finished with 60 points and has a weak or aging core of players, then I think the focus should be on 'building' > 'playoffs'. I mean, you could trade your first round pick for a good vet, and deal some youth and prospects for decent NHLers, and maybe finish with 75 points instead of 60 but in the end you've harmed your ability to be competitive in the future.

Now granted we weren't anywhere near that scenario in September so I don't *blame* Linden/Benning for targeting playoffs, but I do think we are nearing the point (or are already there) where the focus has to switch from chasing a spot while building to purely building, including moving a small number of vets (2-3) who could have helped chase that spot.

It's time.

 

[thepuckmonster]

I think there needs to be a dose of context and realism applied to that edict.

If a team finished with 60 points and has a weak or aging core of players, then I think the focus should be on 'building' > 'playoffs'. I mean, you could trade your first round pick for a good vet, and deal some youth and prospects for decent NHLers, and maybe finish with 75 points instead of 60 but in the end you've harmed your ability to be competitive in the future.

Now granted we weren't anywhere near that scenario in September so I don't *blame* Linden/Benning for targeting playoffs, but I do think we are nearing the point (or are already there) where the focus has to switch from chasing a spot while building to purely building, including moving a small number of vets (2-3) who could have helped chase that spot.

It's time.

I'm pretty sure we will be moving some vets, probably not until the deadline with the way salaries work and the standings shaking out.

It's not really common to see any noteworthy trades around Christmas time.

 

[Reign Nateo]

I think there needs to be a dose of context and realism applied to that edict.

If a team finished with 60 points and has a weak or aging core of players, then I think the focus should be on 'building' > 'playoffs'. I mean, you could trade your first round pick for a good vet, and deal some youth and prospects for decent NHLers, and maybe finish with 75 points instead of 60 but in the end you've harmed your ability to be competitive in the future.

Now granted we weren't anywhere near that scenario in September so I don't *blame* Linden/Benning for targeting playoffs, but I do think we are nearing the point (or are already there) where the focus has to switch from chasing a spot while building to purely building, including moving a small number of vets (2-3) who could have helped chase that spot.

It's time.

It's time for what? They're like 6 points up on dead last. This is as "scorched Earth" as it is going to get. I fully expect to see some veterans shipped out this year and the process to continue. They're doing a pretty good job at tanking whether they like it or not.

Can't stress enough how hard it is to dump contracts/veterans right now. It's almost impossible without taking junk back. Good players didn't even get contracts this year. Times have changed, it's not feasible to just dump every one you don't want and take no money in return. It is very rare now for a team to take on age and salary for only future pieces.

 

[kanucks25]

Why do people expect us to move out more veterans?

I know a few of the core members were already traded away for youth assets, but Benning has also never been in a position where the playoffs were on the line.

At last season's deadline he didn't need to do much 'cause we already had a decent record. This year we may be a fringe team and Benning could very likely panic (or get the orders from above) and pay a high price for a UFA to make a playoff push.

 

[Channelcat]

I missed the first two periods did sbisa get worked?

Full props to Sbisa, for standing up for himself after delivering what was probably a clean hit. Hope he's OK.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Virtanen should go back to Junior after the WJHC based on his current play. He's just not playing assertive enough and doesn't appear to have confidence.

 

[CanaFan]

It's time for what? They're like 6 points up on dead last. This is as "scorched Earth" as it is going to get. I fully expect to see some veterans shipped out this year and the process to continue. They're doing a pretty good job at tanking whether they like it or not.

Can't stress enough how hard it is to dump contracts/veterans right now. It's almost impossible without taking junk back. Good players didn't even get contracts this year. Times have changed, it's not feasible to just dump every one you don't want and take no money in return. It is very rare now for a team to take on age and salary for only future pieces.

It's time for management to understand and acknowledge the need to focus on rebuilding and abandon the notion that they are truly competing for the playoffs. How the team looks and how management speaks do not align.

I didn't say to dump every veteran (I said move 2-3) so there is no "scorched earth" but merely being realistic and dropping this "we will always compete for a playoff spot" BS and acknowledge what is happening with this team. Keep the Sedins, Burrows, Sutter, and a few other vets and move out expiring contracts for whatever picks you can get.

And FFS, someone have a talk with Willie about how he uses his bench before we tank AND stunt our young kids growth.

 

[Huggy]

Virtanen should go back to Junior after the WJHC based on his current play. He's just not playing assertive enough and doesn't appear to have confidence.

Hes playing with another 20 yr old.
And maybe 8 minutes a night if hes lucky

He doresnt look great but he really is improving. He just needs to get more time with the puck. And to play with sutter and burrows

 

[CanaFan]

I'm pretty sure we will be moving some vets, probably not until the deadline with the way salaries work and the standings shaking out.

It's not really common to see any noteworthy trades around Christmas time.

I can see I wasn't clear with my "it's time" comment. I don't mean *today*, I mean this season. So like you say we should be moving those 2-3 vets around the TDL rather than hanging on to them to "chase" a spot.

I realize many posters are already behind this, but I'm not confident management "gets" that yet. They still seem to think every good player made the playoffs in their rookie season and every bad player missed. I hope they can expand their understanding of how talent gets developed in today's game and not be stuck in mid-90's thinking.

 

[thepuckmonster]

I can see I wasn't clear with my "it's time" comment. I don't mean *today*, I mean this season. So like you say we should be moving those 2-3 vets around the TDL rather than hanging on to them to "chase" a spot.

I realize many posters are already behind this, but I'm not confident management "gets" that yet. They still seem to think every good player made the playoffs in their rookie season and every bad player missed. I hope they can expand their understanding of how talent gets developed in today's game and not be stuck in mid-90's thinking.

No I got it and I agree. I was just saying there's a chance we haven't seen anything yet because of the relative rarity of trades this time of year.