Did Wendel Clark deserve his banner raised?

[NikoPopp]

I think yes because any time people start talking about leaf legends his name comes up.

 

[coachbob]

Been watching the Leafs, since the days of Keon, Horton, Mahovlich, then Sittler McDonald, Salming, then Gilmour, Sundin and now Matthews and Marner. Not a chance that Wendel's banner belongs up there.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Not sure if you are saying it was easier then or harder then?

Easier to score during the 80s.

This can't be the first time you have heard this...I thought this was pretty widely accepted as fact.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Since 2010 we have risen banners for what? 2 players? Sundin and Keon?

And that's why I think Clark is getting in, it's a desperation to honour somebody so it's him by default.

 

[thewave]

Been watching the Leafs, since the days of Keon, Horton, Mahovlich, then Sittler McDonald, Salming, then Gilmour, Sundin and now Matthews and Marner. Not a chance that Wendel's banner belongs up there.

Thank goodness some sanity. This is just people 35-50 tops voting for Clark. The younger people should be looking at it and be questioning the accomplishments and the older are witness to the greats.

 

[Kazparov]

I don't think a lot of younger fans realize what Wendell meant to us back in the 80 and 90's.

We had a team that was complete garbage. Management actually iced teams that would lose because the players were cheap and the Gardens still sold out every night.

Wendell fought and hit and scored and gave it 100%. He bleed and made other teams fear coming into our building. He played with a fierce pride that made us fans have hope that our teams was more just the sum of it's horribly mismanaged parts. Dude is a legend.

I can't think of another Toronto Maple Leaf who played during this era who deserves to have his number retired more the Wendell Clark.

 

[Cor]

And that's why I think Clark is getting in, it's a desperation to honour somebody so it's him by default.

We literally had Gilmour go up from the same era that Clark is remembered for. It's not "desparation"

 

[ACC1224]

Would be hard to put him on Legends Row without his number being hung.

IMO, he was included on Legends Row by virtue of being the only Legend to come out of that dark 80's era.

Personally I wish they stayed with just the honoring of numbers, not a fan of retiring the number.

 

[al secord]

I love Clark, but no. We have 100 years worth of Toronto Maple Leaf players. Having his banner raised would be a little embarrassing.

 

[Bluelines]

Easier to score during the 80s.

This can't be the first time you have heard this...I thought this was pretty widely accepted as fact.

Meh!

Not sure that is widely accepted, maybe the shooters were better back then so they scored more ...

 

[Tarmore]

He was the Captain, best player, hart and soul of the Leafs for a long dark time in Leaf history. He even came back for some good times too.

He IMO is deserving of being honored.

 

[Bluelines]

I don't think a lot of younger fans realize what Wendell meant to us back in the 80 and 90's.

We had a team that was complete garbage. Management actually iced teams that would lose because the players were cheap and the Gardens still sold out every night.

Wendell fought and hit and scored and gave it 100%. He bleed and made other teams fear coming into our building. He played with a fierce pride that made us fans have hope that our teams was more just the sum of it's horribly mismanaged parts. Dude is a legend.

I can't think of another Toronto Maple Leaf who played during this era who deserves to have his number retired more the Wendell Clark.

Perfect post!

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Meh!

Not sure that is widely accepted, maybe the shooters were better back then so they scored more ...

Hey, you never know! lol

 

[WilliamInLondon]

Been watching the Leafs, since the days of Keon, Horton, Mahovlich, then Sittler McDonald, Salming, then Gilmour, Sundin and now Matthews and Marner. Not a chance that Wendel's banner belongs up there.

thank you for this.
it's scientifically proven that we look back at memories of our youth through rose-tinted glasses and in a skewed, positive light. I grew up as a child watching the mid-80s Leafs and Wendel was my favorite player. Never did I think he belonged in the most accomplished Leafs category, even as a kid who followed the NHL obsessively.

- I remember coming home and turning on Global News, when Jim Tatti announced that Wendel Clark was traded for Mats Sundin, and how everyone was stunned. Obviously everyone was sad, but no sane follower of hockey, Leafs fan or not, didn't get the feeling that Cliff just rinsed the Nordiques.

On a side note, the Penguins were my second team growing up. Kevin Stevens put up better numbers and accomplished significantly more than Wendel in his 9 seasons with Pittsburgh. his number hasn't been retired.

 

[Mess]

The top 5 most influential Leafs from 1967- today were;

Sittler, Salming, Sundin, Gilmour and Wendel Clark.

If your talking 50 years and 5 players over decades that is hardly extreme. All deserve to be honoured for their service and all are proud Leafs icons.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

And that's why I think Clark is getting in, it's a desperation to honour somebody so it's him by default.

agreed, which is why I think Clark is/was a fan favorite, but on merit and the bigger picture, should not make the cut. the Leafs are just carving out a new, exciting narrative from a very dark era. why bring back memories of that and celebrating something relatively mediocre from a disastrous time?

i'd rather hold out, not have any ceremony for the next decade, embrace and enjoy the now/the new epoch, and have a triple jersey-raising retirement ceremony in 2037 for Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, flanked by 5 Stanley Cup banners on each side.

 

[egd27]

I don't think a lot of younger fans realize what Wendell meant to us back in the 80 and 90's.

We had a team that was complete garbage. Management actually iced teams that would lose because the players were cheap and the Gardens still sold out every night.

Wendell fought and hit and scored and gave it 100%. He bleed and made other teams fear coming into our building. He played with a fierce pride that made us fans have hope that our teams was more just the sum of it's horribly mismanaged parts. Dude is a legend.

I can't think of another Toronto Maple Leaf who played during this era who deserves to have his number retired more the Wendell Clark.

The key phrase in this entire debate.

To borrow a Dennis Miller line, "Like being the valedictorian of summer school".

 

[Menzinger]

Don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other.

Stuff like this is just fan service anyways not like there's a clear objective criteria for it.

Was a great player, lots of fans love him. Why not

 

[Al14]

Join with us to celebrate Joe from accounting. Joe was a member of the team 1987 to 1993. He put up pretty decent numbers but never won player of the year or anything like that. Regardless today we gather around to retire his cubical. Thank Joe!

I'll take imaginary Joe's contribution to the team far more seriously than much of what you, at times, post on here.

And yes, Clark #17 should be honored too. If #13 deserves it, then, so does #17 IMHO.

Neither #17 nor #13 won this franchise a cup, however, both were heart and soul type players. Clark could kill you on the ice with a picture perfect goal, and, knock you on your arse hard, as well, he could knock your head off too, if necessary. Clark was a warrior blessed with some skill too.

Clark could do it ALL, with the exception of winning a Stanley Cup all by himself.

I also don't believe in retiring numbers. I like honoring and allowing honored numbers to stay in circulation. However, I also think that new players have to earn the right to wear those honored numbers.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We literally had Gilmour go up from the same era that Clark is remembered for. It's not "desparation"

So how many players since Sittler is that again?

The key phrase in this entire debate.

To borrow a Dennis Miller line, "Like being the valedictorian of summer school".

That's pretty good.

Don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other.

Stuff like this is just fan service anyways not like there's a clear objective criteria for it.

Was a great player, lots of fans love him. Why not

Same here. I just feel it's fair to point out that the just isn't on the level of the other guys. A lot of the reasons given for Wendel qualifying apply to Tiger Williams as well, maybe we should retire his sweater too.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other.

Stuff like this is just fan service anyways not like there's a clear objective criteria for it.

Was a great player, lots of fans love him. Why not

Perfect.

/thread

 

[Cor]

So how many players since Sittler is that again?



That's pretty good.



Same here. I just feel it's fair to point out that the just isn't on the level of the other guys. A lot of the reasons given for Wendel qualifying apply to Tiger Williams as well, maybe we should retire his sweater too.

It's been 4 since Sittler. One being Dave Keon. Then Sundin, Clark and Gilmour. Given our success, that's fair. Those are the three players who deserve it.

And by the way, Williams didn't even score 100 goals as a Leaf. Clark scored 260. Not even close to a comparison. Try Again.

 

[Mess]

Wendel played in an era when men were men and you needed to be one to play in the NHL and Wendel was feared and revered for his physical play, thunderous body checks, and toughness and willingness to standup for and fight anyone, combined with skill to score with a deadly wrist shot he would blow by goalies. He would regularly bring fans out of their seats and they loved and adored him.

Today's NHL has become almost glorified figure skating with a hockey stick in your hand. Where physical play and contract is almost verboten and frowned upon, and where fancy skating and points is the only measure of a man in the game.

The comparison of styles and games is so different that Wendel compared to the game today, gives the impression he isn't worthy of respect and admiration for his outstanding contribution to the Leafs, which couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Hockeyholic]

thank you for this.
it's scientifically proven that we look back at memories of our youth through rose-tinted glasses and in a skewed, positive light. I grew up as a child watching the mid-80s Leafs and Wendel was my favorite player. Never did I think he belonged in the most accomplished Leafs category, even as a kid who followed the NHL obsessively.

- I remember coming home and turning on Global News, when Jim Tatti announced that Wendel Clark was traded for Mats Sundin, and how everyone was stunned. Obviously everyone was sad, but no sane follower of hockey, Leafs fan or not, didn't get the feeling that Cliff just rinsed the Nordiques.

On a side note, the Penguins were my second team growing up. Kevin Stevens put up better numbers and accomplished significantly more than Wendel in his 9 seasons with Pittsburgh. his number hasn't been retired.

Some media & fans never got over trading Clark for Sundin. To some it was as if the Leafs ripped their entire team apart.

Ultimately I believe that's why Sundin got so much heat while he was here. Despite being much better than Clark. Despite being a hofer here.

I agree with your post.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Just because Wendel wasn't elite doesn't mean he's undeserving of having his banner raised and number retired.