Did Wendel Clark deserve his banner raised?

[Mess]

Yes, absolutely.

Some feel "POINTS" is the only measure of a player, but he was and will also be a believed a Leaf Icon and beloved Leaf.

He hit, he fought for his teammates, he bleed blue and white.. He was captain, and he scored goals with the best of them. Leafs all-time playoff goals leader (34 goals in 79 playoff games). He was the only other Leaf drafted #1 overall like Matthews and adopted by the fan base as a self drafted and developed player.

In 1992-93 as Leafs went to the final 4 in 21 playoff games he scored 10 goals 10 assists and 20 points and finished just outside the top 5 in playoff scoring leaders.

In 1993-94 he scored 46 goals & 76 points in 64 regular season games to lead the Leafs to the playoffs and then in 18 games 9-7-16 points.

Those that got the privilege to cheer on Wendel will never forget how much impact he had on Leafs legacy and him being honoured for his service is 100% worthy.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

34 will be the next number to retire.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

As a player? Yes. Maybe with exception to his playmaking abilities. Clark could score goals better than anyone in our franchises history. I sometimes think about an alternate universe where Clark stayed healthy.

As a leader? He's near the top, if not at the top. Simply a warrior.

I'd be curious to see era-adjusted stats for Clark.

Yes he scored goals at a clip that few if any other Leafs have, but it was also at a time when league-wide, goals were scored at a pace not seen before.

I think his numbers need to be put into perspective and compared to the era in which he played. Simply saying he scored at a high rate means very little without any context.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

34 will be the next number to retire.

Yeah, Bryan Berard was the GOAT

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

I'd be curious to see era-adjusted stats for Clark.

Yes he scored goals at a clip that few if any other Leafs have, but it was also at a time when league-wide, goals were scored at a pace not seen before.

I think his numbers need to be put into perspective and compared to the era in which he played. Simply saying he scored at a high rate means very little without any context.

have you never seen his shot? filthy

 

[WilliamInLondon]

Yeah, Bryan Berard was the GOAT

lol, i remember being so upset when he got injured. partly out of concern for his well-being, but also because if it wasn't for Marian Hossa's carelessness, he could very well have become a Top 5 Leafs defenceman of all time had his defensive game rounded out

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'd be curious to see era-adjusted stats for Clark.

Yes he scored goals at a clip that few if any other Leafs have, but it was also at a time when league-wide, goals were scored at a pace not seen before.

I think his numbers need to be put into perspective and compared to the era in which he played. Simply saying he scored at a high rate means very little without any context.

Hockey reference shows his 260 goals get era-adjusted down to 232.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/c/clarkwe01.html

 

[Bluelines]

The answer isn't obvious, because it's a subjective thing and there is no one correct answer. The only thing that is obvious is what your view is on the subject as is apparent by your post which shows clearly where your bias lies. I don't really care too much one way or there other but I think it's fair to point out that he wasn't on the level of other Leafs who have had their sweaters retired and I would appreciate it if you would answer my question from the other thread. Here it is again:

As a hockey player, was Clark on the level of Apps, Armstrong, Bower, Sittler, Salming, Clark, Gilmour and Sundin?

Gary have thou been sprinkling 'shrooms on your cereal, that is some deep existential thinking there. I like it!

...and the answer is quite obviously Yes.

 

[thewave]

Its fine retire everyone. It just means less numbers and less meaning.

In 50 years fans will be saying, who and why? When they get told his/their accomplishments the young fans will laugh and say ok... Whatever and basically those names will hang in mockery of warriors like Keon

 

[Daisy Jane]

Its fine retire everyone. It just means less numbers and less meaning.

In 50 years fans will be saying, who and why? When they get told his/their accomplishments the young fans will laugh and say ok... Whatever and basically those names will hang in mockery of warriors like Keon

why do you always do this?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Abso-fricken-lutely

 

[Gary Nylund]

As a player? Yes. Maybe with exception to his playmaking abilities. Clark could score goals better than anyone in our franchises history. I sometimes think about an alternate universe where Clark stayed healthy.

As a leader? He's near the top, if not at the top. Simply a warrior.

Fair enough. I don't agree but that's fine. He was an awesome scorer, fighter and a leader OK. But it wasn't just his play-making that was nowhere near that level, he wasn't exactly known for his defensive play either.

 

[Barilko14]

on what basis is there to assume that Clark would have scored 500+ goals? his career high was 46, which was 14 more than his 2nd best season.

you can't compare his goals per game with the all-time leading goal scorer across eras. need to normalize for the total goals scored across each season to have comparable estimates. also don't agree with justifying someone's inclusion as a franchise 'great' in terms of what he 'could' have done as opposed to what he did. by that logic, if Felix Potvin had proper defencemen from 1994 onwards, he would have retired as a Leaf and be in the Hall of Fame right now.

He's not in there based on what could have been, but posters saying he's not in our top 5 in statistical categories punishes the fact that he missed a lot games.

He played 15 seasons in the league. 15 seasons x 80 games = 1200 games.
1200 x .416 goals per game = 499 goals. More so bringing this up to show what he was capable of producing (while playing injured) if he could stay healthy. He was a great goal scorer, and bringing up only season totals to minimize his overall production doesn't really paint the whole picture.

Clark and Sundin overlapped 10 seasons, I'm not really comparing Clark to Conacher here, it's not like the dead puck era happened the day after Clark retired.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

have you never seen his shot? filthy

you see the goalies equipment then, and the defensive play/systems at the time.

apples and oranges

 

[thewave]

why do you always do this?

Its true, take the cups away from the legends and replace it with semi finals, conference finals and you know what... If you are still in awe of our greats without those absolutely amazing stretches the same way... Well...

 

[Bluelines]

Furthermore, shouldn't Roberts or Kaberle get their #'s raised? They were both popular Leafs, huge production, multiple ECF appearances. If Clark deserves it, they do too.

Roberts, Kaberle had good stretches but , IMO the measure of a player once he retires is the impact he had on the city, the people, the memories. Did you look forward to his next shift? Did you feel like if he was on the ice something good was going to happen? Did you try to grow his handle bar mustache and have your wife mock you by saying you looked like a cheap porn star? Did you name your animals after him? Have you watched the same replay a million times, knowing what was going to happen just to relive that special moment? Some players do some of that but only a few did all of that..those guys are the ones that are special to us and should be recognized.

In my generation Sundin, Clark, Gilmour, Quinn and Burns all deserve to be memorialized.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Retire Clarks #. Retire Belaks #. Retire Andy Wozniewski ( Sp?) # too.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Hockey reference shows his 260 goals get era-adjusted down to 232.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/c/clarkwe01.html

thanks! still a good amount!

 

[Barilko14]

you see the goalies equipment then, and the defensive play/systems at the time.

apples and oranges

Do we really need to get into an era debate? Should there be an asterisk beside Gretzky's numbers?

 

[thewave]

Retire Clarks #. Retire Belaks #. Retire Andy Wozniewski ( Sp?) # too.

#wagthedog

You know what I mean

 

[Bluelines]

you see the goalies equipment then, and the defensive play/systems at the time.

apples and oranges

Not sure if you are saying it was easier then or harder then?

 

[Hockeyholic]

I just hope this franchise doesn't turn into the Canucks when it comes to jersey # retirements.

 

[thewave]

I just hope this franchise doesn't turn into the Canucks when it comes to jersey # retirements.

Join with us to celebrate Joe from accounting. Joe was a member of the team 1987 to 1993. He put up pretty decent numbers but never won player of the year or anything like that. Regardless today we gather around to retire his cubical. Thank Joe!

 

[Cor]

Since 2010 we have risen banners for what? 2 players? Sundin and Keon?

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Do we really need to get into an era debate? Should there be an asterisk beside Gretzky's numbers?

I wasn't trying to debate it.

Someone said "Clark could score goals better than anyone else in Leafs history". All I said was it's difficult to say that since he played in an era where everyone scored more than they do today. Ray Sheppard was a 50! goal scorer for crying out loud.

And easy on the hyperbole. Gretzky? Really?