Bomber0104
Registered User
Yup...hypocrisy at its finest.
Why some people choose to behave like that is really puzzling.
Did we win the Kessel deal yet?
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Yup...hypocrisy at its finest.
Why some people choose to behave like that is really puzzling.
TMLrBest
Registered User
- May 19, 2010
- 252
- 9
No kidding. I love my team, but I try to see what is real - not what I wish it was or what I can twist it into.
If you had to pick Seguin or Kessel for a seven game series next week, I'm sure most Bruins fans would be with me in picking Phil. On the other hand - I doubt you could get many of them interested in swapping them long term. (contracts and money aside). I also don't think many of them would swap Phil 1 for 1 for Hamilton.
Even though Seguin dipped this year, we did not win that trade. How can anyone say that Kessel's 20 goals makes him "elite" while Seguin's 16 goals means he sucked?
Knight may well be a chronic injury that never pans out. Even so - Five years from now that trade will look ridiculous........assuming it doesn't already.
What the **** ever.
Take the richest team in the freaking league, give them the LONGEST cup drought in the league... make them miss the playoffs a league leading 7 seasons in a row... make them finish 2nd freaking last while their 1st round pick belonged to a divisional freaking rival... and make them finally make the ****ing playoffs only to lose in ROUND FREAKING ONE in the most humiliating and pathetic nhl game 7 collapse in world history...
and you don't believe that some fans are (correctly) frustrated to the brink of insanity? Why is that so hard to believe?
'Novelty account' he says.
Most leaf fans make themselves feel better by trying to convince themselves and others that "come on... it's not that bad.. things are looking better..." blah blah blah.
I simply am realistic about his team.
And look what it's done to me.
Bomber0104
Registered User
Shouldn't have to switch teams just because management is terrible of the team you are loyal to.
Rather, some people simply point out how bad management is with the hopes of causing change for the better.
This type of behavior should be looked upon favorably...not with contempt.
This is the only team I have ever supported where fans who expect greater than are given grief.
As if to suggest the Leafs couldn't have possibly placed themselves in a better position than they are in today...with their unlimited budget.
Rather, some people simply point out how bad management is with the hopes of causing change for the better.
This type of behavior should be looked upon favorably...not with contempt.
This is the only team I have ever supported where fans who expect greater than are given grief.
As if to suggest the Leafs couldn't have possibly placed themselves in a better position than they are in today...with their unlimited budget.
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
Joe Haggerty @HackswithHaggs 15s
Peter Chiarelli very blunt abt Tyler Seguin: "He needs to focus all his mind and energy on hockey. He needs to be a better pro" #BruinsTalk
Don't know about winning or Losing. I'm stil happy and glad about Kesel.
Peter Chiarelli very blunt abt Tyler Seguin: "He needs to focus all his mind and energy on hockey. He needs to be a better pro" #BruinsTalk
Don't know about winning or Losing. I'm stil happy and glad about Kesel.
There have been rumblings about Seguin being on the block. Is the honeymoon over already?
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
Don't know but I really love seguin. Should be smarter if this is the case, usually a GM doesn't speak about a respected player.
NAILED IT!
Shame this argument keeps coming up about 2 or 3 times a year and some people just can't enjoy the great player that Kessel is. Trade worked out great for both teams. Boston fans are happy with what they have. Most Leaf fans are happy with what they have except the few who are never happy with anything.
hotpaws
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2009
- 21,675
- 6,275
Kadri at his age couldn't even make the NHL.
And you criticize a guy at that age that was on pace for about 30 NHL goals.
It's so ridiculous. IT'S JUST SO RIDICULOUS!!!
Rants Mulliniks
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2008
- 23,071
- 6,136
Some of us have been comparing both players over the sum total of their entire three years. Others who don't like how that works out for them are trying to make it an argument about individual years. It's a classic technique of certain posters whereby they try to confuse and distract from the actual argument. The latest tangent has been trying to ignore the 3 year comparison and rather deflect the discussion to Kadri (as though 2nd overall and 7th overall are comparable in their normal development paths). Heck the mere notion of it is doubly stupid given its attempt is to yet again change the argument from "how Kessel and Seguin compare at the same age and with the same number of seasons" to "Seguin is finished his development".
One has to love people who create their own arguments and then argue against themselves, declare themselves "right" and better yet declare everyone hypocrites.
I'll make it easy for you guys:
NO ONE THINKS SEGUIN'S DEVELOPMENT IS FINISHED.
NO ONE THINKS KESSEL'S DEVELOPMENT IS FINISHED.
TO DATE (BY THE SAME AGE), WITH MONEY ON THE LINE, KESSEL HAS BY FAR CONTRIBUTED MORE TO HIS TEAM.
No need to run around creating strawmen or fighting windmills.
Rants Mulliniks
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2008
- 23,071
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What was the guy he was traded for doing at the same age?
It's so ridiculous. IT'S JUST SO RIDICULOUS!!!
Just pointing out the hypocrisy leaf fans show in this.
When kadri can't even make the NHL at 20 years of age, it's 'patience'.
When seguin is on pace for almost 30 goals at 20 years years of age, it's 'he's a 3rd liner'.
When seguin was better than kessel in their 2nd years, did you consider that proof that seguins career would be better?
When kessel was better in their 3rd years, do you consider that proof that kessels career would be better?
It's clearly up in the air. And this doesn't even include Hamilton in the debate.
What an embarrassing trade. An utter HUMILIATION of a trade...
SmoggyTwinkles
Go Leafs Go
I love how the hindsight on this trade just keeps on changing, and it will keep on changing for years!
But it's also sad to look back and think how horrible this trade was supposed to be for Leafs and their fans, a total embarrassment worthy of endless shaming.
I know I HATED the deal the moment I heard about it because I wanted the Leafs to start drafting finally and that was when I thought it might be the 15th overall
But I gotta say at this point I'm pretty happy with Kessel. He's a fun player to watch and all the crap he's had to endure (the trade stuff, the all star game selection stuff, Burke talking about him being shy because he had acne etc) has really endeared him to me and I want him to keep kicking ass and prove everyone wrong.
But, Seguin is a great player who will get better again, and the B's won the cup and they have Hamilton and Knight to look forward to, there's no point trying to 1up them because Seguin might get moved, they're a way better team and a way better franchise the past while and I hope the Leafs can emulate their success someday soon
But it's also sad to look back and think how horrible this trade was supposed to be for Leafs and their fans, a total embarrassment worthy of endless shaming.
I know I HATED the deal the moment I heard about it because I wanted the Leafs to start drafting finally and that was when I thought it might be the 15th overall
But I gotta say at this point I'm pretty happy with Kessel. He's a fun player to watch and all the crap he's had to endure (the trade stuff, the all star game selection stuff, Burke talking about him being shy because he had acne etc) has really endeared him to me and I want him to keep kicking ass and prove everyone wrong.
But, Seguin is a great player who will get better again, and the B's won the cup and they have Hamilton and Knight to look forward to, there's no point trying to 1up them because Seguin might get moved, they're a way better team and a way better franchise the past while and I hope the Leafs can emulate their success someday soon
Rants Mulliniks
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2008
- 23,071
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What's RIDICULOUS is bringing Kadri up in this conversation at all... Players develop at different paces there's no fixture one bit to bringing Kadri up when in all intensive purposes this was year 1 of Kadri's NHL career and it was a damn good one wouldn't you say?
As for Seguin well the cart went way a head of the horse with this kid cause he was hyped as if the Leafs lost out in the next Yzerman and your using words like "REDICOULOS" is kind of ironic to say the least.
Seguin is very talented and still very young to believe there's more from him to come. Maybe in year 4, 5 or year 6 in his NHL career we'll see this Yzerman player we've been hounded to have lost as for me I'm not holding my breath (seems like Boston isn't either) and am perfectly ecstatic to have Kessel over him.
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keonsbitterness
Registered User
I think Kessel is an all world talent, always have. Still improving too. Skill set off the chart, might be a dozen players offensively in his league. Not sure what price that's worth to others, but it's high to me. I still say he'll pop 50 one of these years, probably a few times.
Just my opinion, and I'm wrong all the time (ask my wife) but I don't see that level from Seguin, at al. Not to say he's not a dandy player, but I don't see him ever in Phil's level of elite. Hamilton will be fine too.
Short of maybe Cujo, he's the most rawly talented Leaf I think I've seen in my 30 odd years of Leaf mania. Don't go nuts on me, he's not Sundin or Douggie, both "better" players to this point, I'm just saying raw talent.
Hang the cost. Not judging "won or lost". Sure am happy Phil's a Leaf, leave it there
Just my opinion, and I'm wrong all the time (ask my wife) but I don't see that level from Seguin, at al. Not to say he's not a dandy player, but I don't see him ever in Phil's level of elite. Hamilton will be fine too.
Short of maybe Cujo, he's the most rawly talented Leaf I think I've seen in my 30 odd years of Leaf mania. Don't go nuts on me, he's not Sundin or Douggie, both "better" players to this point, I'm just saying raw talent.
Hang the cost. Not judging "won or lost". Sure am happy Phil's a Leaf, leave it there
Bomber0104
Registered User
No...this isn't about individual years. This is about posters like yourself arguing from both sides of the fence about prospect development.
You're directly comparing a player who is four years younger to an established player in the league...while COMPLETELY ignoring two other pieces in the deal.
So compare year to year and it's virtually a toss up.
Then add Doug Hamilton to the equation. And Jared Knight.
Disgusting trade and im not at all surprised to find eyeball11 trying to argue against simple logic and basic mathematical laws such as the number 3 being greater than 1.
If I wired you $20 can you come up with a compelling story about how water isn't wet? I'd like to see what you come up with.
What is the actual argument eyeball11? Please tell us. Because it seems like when a thread goes in a direction that you don't feel comfortable with, you start attacking the poster and use rhetoric rather than the content of the post (that being the double standard of Kadri and Seguin and their development curves).
Let me guess...Kessel (26) is a better player than Seguin (21) right?
Stunning revelation....a player drafted four years ahead of another guy is more polished. Absolutely enthralling. I never would have expected that.
So if this Kessel guy is as good as you say he is, I assume he wins games for the Leafs right?
Right? Because if he is as good a player as you suggest he is (probably top 5 in the league according to eyeball11) he no doubt helps the Leafs a great deal in winning games.
With Kessel the Franchise -> 2nd last and 9th last which gave Boston the 2nd overall pick, 9th overall pick, and 32nd overall pick
Goodness me, imagine if we didn't have Kessel the Franchise?
We would have done worse....
Might have drafted Hall and Huberdeau?
What would it have cost today for a team to move from 9th overall to 3rd overall?
Probably a metric tonne.
Add that to the cost of acquiring Kessel.
Embarrassing trade. But only a really special kind of Leaf fan would argue otherwise.
When the entire scope of your argument comes down to comparing PPG's over the first three years, you should reconsider entirely what you think you know about hockey...and management....and pretty much everything.
Everyone has seen the arguments pumping Kadri and bashing Seguin here.
At least try to be honest.
Kessel's development is over. Seguin and Kadri's are not.
I mean Seguin isn't even playing his natural position....similar to how Kadri was treated actually.
Kessel is relied upon far more than the Bruins rely on Seguin.
I'm sure the Bruins could have coached Seguin into being a perimeter player but I think they want bigger and better things out of him. May have something to do with why the Bruins make the Stanley Cup finals playing their game vs. playing their game + accommodating Kessel's style and not achieving any success...
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