Did we win the Kessel deal yet?

[FlareKnight]

I agree. I just wish both fan bases could move on. Im a huge Bruins fan, but i have to admit, my second team is the leafs. Its hard not to be growing up on the east coast watching hnic every saturday.
We need a team here in Halifax so i can get outta this Leafs/Bruins tug of war that im caught up in the middle of lol

It'd be a nice dream to be sure. Maybe if the Bruins actually trade Seguin out somewhere it should happen. Harder for even the media to make a big deal of "Kessel vs. Hamilton!!!!"

Maybe if the latest playoff run was good enough that will kill the "Thank You Kessel nonsense" there's no moving on for anyone if that nonsense continues.

 

[Cotton]

Naw, we're more then happy with the trade. We've just moved on.

I mean look at the Thornton trade. Now that was brutal. But you dont see us bringing it up over and over.

If the leafs are happy with it, the Bruins are deffinatly happy with it. Shouldnt we both just move on?

I love your use of "we", leader of the Boston fan-base are you?

This is a hockey board where posters discuss hockey, this discussion has variables that are being explored rather then simply saying Seguin is better because he contributed in one game during Boston's cup win, Or Kessel is better because he's a PPG player. You shouldn't confuse that for Leafs fans having an issue with Kessel and feeling the need to bring it up "over and over" again, but rather Leafs fans meeting the call from opposing fans who kept bringing it up "over and over" that Toronto was fleeced by Boston. I think Toronto fan's more than anyone want an end to the comparison because Seguin wasn't ever our player, and I'm sure Boston won't chant "thank you Kessel" anymore after he lit them up in round one while Seguin watched.

What most confusing is Kessel was Boston's player, never did them wrong, went through cancer treatment and everything there and they trade him and then bash him? make's no sense.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Naw, we're more then happy with the trade. We've just moved on.

I mean look at the Thornton trade. Now that was brutal. But you dont see us bringing it up over and over.

If the leafs are happy with it, the Bruins are deffinatly happy with it. Shouldnt we both just move on?

Would be nice. Unfortunately there will always be someone who brings it up and create a huge discussion about it.

The "Thank you Kessel" chants don't really help either.

 

[The Apologist]

but who cares if we got the better player? is the idea to get the better player, or is the idea to advance to team forwards to actually winning? those two things don't always jive.

I just don't care about phil kessel. he's on the team temporarily, and hopefully he can be part of a winning leafs team while he's here. beyond that, I don't care about him or his stats or any individual numbers or trophies he might get.

Phil Kessel IS moving this team forward.

Again, did Edmonton win the Gretzky deal?

 

[TeamBester]

RIdiculous...I love what Kessel brings but please. Absolutely ludicrous argument at this stage of careers...considering Hamilton barely has his feet wet at 20 and Knight hasn't even seen the NHL at 21 and Seguin himself is only 21. If Kessel doesn't resign with the Leafs and nothing was gained from his 5 years in Toronto (ie one playoff appearance with zero rounds won)...then this trade is a disaster. If Kessel resigns for another 7 years and the Leafs find some real playoff success then perhaps we can re-visit. The point is way too early but also consider that trades are made to put your team in a position to contend for championships...since the Kessel trade I think Boston has won that end goal....doesn't matter what Seguin/Hamilton/Knight did or didnt do.

Ahhh, yes, the, "I can't argue Boston got the best players so I will pretend it doesn't matter"

All this time I thought it was about the 2nd overall franchise superstar we lost. Silly me.

 

[thatshype]

The media will ALWAYS bring it up because it stirs up reactions. We should all know by now that the media, especially in Toronto, don't care as much about journalistic integrity as much as they do about creating a buzz. The fact is that a headline of "Seguin vs. Kessel" is always going to catch more readers than something legitimate about the team. It's a talking point, and the media will always bring it up....likely until both players are retired.

 

[Paradoc]

Naw, we're more then happy with the trade. We've just moved on.

I mean look at the Thornton trade. Now that was brutal. But you dont see us bringing it up over and over.

If the leafs are happy with it, the Bruins are deffinatly happy with it. Shouldnt we both just move on?

Agree. Unfortunately every time seguin is mentioned on the main board it ALWAYS turns into kessel trade talk. That and the "Thank you Kessel" chants.

 

[The Legend]

Such a media invention that there has to be a "winner" in every trade. Only in sports do swaps for mutual benefit have to lead to one party getting the better of it....

 

[The Apologist]

Ahhh, yes, the, "I can't argue Boston got the best players so I will pretend it doesn't matter"

All this time I thought it was about the 2nd overall franchise superstar we lost. Silly me.

Do you not understand the what if arguments?
What if Kessel's career ends next week and Seguin becomes the second coming of Wayne? What then?

Lets take this to the other extreme since we're dealing with those now.

What if Kessel signs long term at 6m per, goes on to lead the league in scoring for the next five years and leads the Leafs to multiple Cups an Seguin regresses into a 3c at best, Hamilton is nothing special and knight is a career AHLer?

It's laughable to think the Leafs don't win the deal based on the above.

 

[Frankie]

Phil Kessel IS moving this team forward.

the team is moving forward and he's part of that. but the bruins are already there. they are where the leafs want to be. and seguin is part of that.

Again, did Edmonton win the Gretzky deal?

yes. they won a cup shortly after the deal. worked out amazingly well for them.

though certainly a unique trade, nothing like we've seen since.

 

[Remuskokafication]

Such a media invention that there has to be a "winner" in every trade. Only in sports do swaps for mutual benefit have to lead to one party getting the better of it....

Its not the media/sports at all, have you ever been in a negotiation?
All people think about is "am I winning or losing."
It's the wrong way of doing it but it is human nature.

 

[Divine]

Yes but the consensus among the hockey world is that kessel never ever should have fetched that price.

Seguin not being worth that doesn't mean kessel was. Remember...the bruins got hamilton too........it's gonna take longer than this to know who truly won it, but if seguin becomes and remains a 30 goal scorer and hamilton develops into what he should...than you guys have been outrageously robbed. Kessel has one dimension...seguin is more allrounded.

Maybe among hockey fans, not among hockey analysts/GM's. First round picks are traded for rentals that teams know they won't resign. Jagr was traded for a first this year, you're telling me you wouldn't trade 2 1sts and a 2nd for a 21 year old with 36 Goals and 60 points in 70 games?

Remember, first round picks are worth less than prospects because you're not giving up anything. Teams prefer prospects, if you wouldn't make that trade for a young 21 Y.O coming off his ELC with that talent, you're just being ignorant.

 

[EscapeGoat]

Leafs have won the trade so far. We'll see how Hamilton pans out though.

Of course you will get a much different reaction from the rest of HF + the Bruins fan base.

 

[Mess]

The ultimate goal of every team is to win the Cup each season. Player transactions that occur are designed with the intention that you're attempting to win it all, and moving a team closer to that goal, improving your team.

Case in point: Boston clearly won the Kaberle trade at this point as Tomas lead the Bruins defense in playoff scoring, while Leafs return of Colborne, Biggs (in part via #30 pick) and Liles have done little to propel the Leafs forward at present. Any GM that makes a trade, particularly a deadline deal that results in a Cup win for his team would make that trade over and over again.

Boston traded Kessel and went on the win the Cup, so there will never be an issue from the Bruins perspective of regret or need to validate it. Leaf Nation is left wondering if this was a good trade, needing reassurance as there is no team success to validate it upon. Best case scenario is Kessel contributes to a future Leafs Cup win and then we call the trade a TIE !!! Thankfully Boston didn't win the Cup this year again because then it would have taken 2 X future Leafs Cup to call it a draw.

 

[Brewsky]

Would we trade Kessel right now for Knight, Seguin and Hamilton?

No.

Would Boston? I'd say yes.

We won.

 

[hotpaws]

Maybe among hockey fans, not among hockey analysts/GM's. First round picks are traded for rentals that teams know they won't resign. Jagr was traded for a first this year, you're telling me you wouldn't trade 2 1sts and a 2nd for a 21 year old with 36 Goals and 60 points in 70 games?

Remember, first round picks are worth less than prospects because you're not giving up anything. Teams prefer prospects, if you wouldn't make that trade for a young 21 Y.O coming off his ELC with that talent, you're just being ignorant.

Name me one team that was headed for a lottery pick that traded their 1st for a rental .

You're pretty ignorant if you don't understand a pick represents a future prospect/player .

Sometimes a prospect is worth more than a pick and sometimes a pick is worth more than a prospect . It all depends on where that pick is and who that prospect is .

If I was a team at the start of a long rebuild I wouldn't trade my best assets for a scoring winger . Of all the positions on a team wingers are the easiest to acquire and have the least impact . When have you ever heard a GM say he builds his teams from the wingers in ?

 

[TRask]

I love your use of "we", leader of the Boston fan-base are you?

This is a hockey board where posters discuss hockey, this discussion has variables that are being explored rather then simply saying Seguin is better because he contributed in one game during Boston's cup win, Or Kessel is better because he's a PPG player. You shouldn't confuse that for Leafs fans having an issue with Kessel and feeling the need to bring it up "over and over" again, but rather Leafs fans meeting the call from opposing fans who kept bringing it up "over and over" that Toronto was fleeced by Boston. I think Toronto fan's more than anyone want an end to the comparison because Seguin wasn't ever our player, and I'm sure Boston won't chant "thank you Kessel" anymore after he lit them up in round one while Seguin watched.

What most confusing is Kessel was Boston's player, never did them wrong, went through cancer treatment and everything there and they trade him and then bash him? make's no sense.

Case in point...GET OVER IT!

 

[AvroArrow]

Can people stop saying who "Won" the deal ? It's not a competition , its a transaction. The Bruins won a cup with Seguin, We have a promising top 10 scorer. It was a good move for both teams. We needed a top scorer who could be effective right away, the bruins needed a low cap hit player who can produce.

 

[FreeBird]

Remember when everyone said that we got fleeced by Boston in the Kessel deal and everyone would of reversed the trade if they could? With Seguins recent downslide and Boston possibly shopping him, is it possible to say on HFboards now that we might of actually won that trade?

Let's face it, Kessel>Seguin ainec

Should there be a massive "crow feast" in the hockey universe?

We can judge it better when we see what our return for Kessel is.

 

[TRask]

I think both teams should be pretty happy with the end result of "the trade"

Toronto ended up with the most productive player in the deal at present time
Boston ended up with 2 very good young pieces for a player they werent going to be able to resign.

I think both teams made out pretty good considering the circumstances. Just a shame that Burke had to lose his job. The deal ended up looking alot better after a few years rolled by then initially preceived. I always liked the trades that Burke was able to pull off, but he mite of been too abrasive for the Toronto media. Made for good entertainment tho

 

[ULF_55]

Kaberle and Kadri for Kessel.

Lupul-Seguin-Kessel

 

[TRask]

Can people stop saying who "Won" the deal ? It's not a competition , its a transaction. The Bruins won a cup with Seguin, We have a promising top 10 scorer. It was a good move for both teams. We needed a top scorer who could be effective right away, the bruins needed a low cap hit player who can produce.

Well put

 

[Mess]

Sometimes a prospect is worth more than a pick and sometimes a pick is worth more than a prospect . It all depends on where that pick is and who that prospect is.

The trading of a future yet to be determined draft pick(s) can be far more damaging as its based on uncertainty and thus variable in cost.

As it turned out Leafs paid dearly surrendering the #2 and #9 overall future picks, far more than was expected by the GM when the trade was made. Actually its a move (mistake) you would expect from a greenhorn rookie or desperate GM, and the reason bottom rebuilding teams don't make these kinds of trades, as experienced GMs know better. Leafs essentially wrote a blank cheque to Boston, and they got to fill in the amount at a later date.

Leafs didn't need Kessel to finish 29th overall. So the dealing of the eventual 2nd overall pick was a bad idea both back then and still today. Ditto for the 9th overall pick the following year. The only real way to offset that cost is to have team success now with Kessel to validate the trade, based on the cost of acquisition. Having Kessel lead your team in scoring in non playoff years has little to no value to validate the reason for making it.

Could the Leafs get a #2, #9 and #32 overall today in trade for Kessel? Not likely, therefore the cost of acquisition >>> cost of disposition. Or as they say in the business a case of "Buy High and Sell low" or bad trade.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Kessel is one of the best regular season performers in the NHL. Numbers don't lie. Add to that his stellar playoff this year and what you've got is a franchise player that isn't going anywhere.

 

[KuleminFan41]

The Leafs lost. No ifs ands or buts about it

Boston won a cup with Seguin in the line up. Until the Leafs win a game or 2 with Kessel then we can talk about winning the trade.