Did we win the Kessel deal yet?

[The Apologist]

again, your opinion of everyone's level of contribution is fine and dandy, but i'm sure they don't care too much.

the bruins and seguin won the cup right after this trade. they couldn't have done any better than that.

while they're winning and achieving the ultimate goal, we're more than happy to claim kessel might be a better individual player. just seems a little sad.

Yes, it's sad that we got the better player...

Ill never understand some people.

 

[Frankie]

The question then is simple - do you believe we would have won the cup with Seguin in the lineup instead of Kessel?

If the answer is no, then according to your own metric Seguin is no better a player than Phil Kessel and we would be no better off with him. In which case, what the hell are you arguing?

i'm saying that seguin has achieved far more and accomplished far more in his very short nhl career than phil kessel has. its not even close.

the argument over which player is better as an individual is stupid and meaningless. who really cares about that?

the goal of each and every trade is to get better as a team and win the cup. boston did that perfectly.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Remember when everyone said that we got fleeced by Boston in the Kessel deal and everyone would of reversed the trade if they could? With Seguins recent downslide and Boston possibly shopping him, is it possible to say on HFboards now that we might of actually won that trade?

Let's face it, Kessel>Seguin ainec

Should there be a massive "crow feast" in the hockey universe?

RIdiculous...I love what Kessel brings but please. Absolutely ludicrous argument at this stage of careers...considering Hamilton barely has his feet wet at 20 and Knight hasn't even seen the NHL at 21 and Seguin himself is only 21. If Kessel doesn't resign with the Leafs and nothing was gained from his 5 years in Toronto (ie one playoff appearance with zero rounds won)...then this trade is a disaster. If Kessel resigns for another 7 years and the Leafs find some real playoff success then perhaps we can re-visit. The point is way too early but also consider that trades are made to put your team in a position to contend for championships...since the Kessel trade I think Boston has won that end goal....doesn't matter what Seguin/Hamilton/Knight did or didnt do.

 

[Frankie]

Winning a Stanley Cup does not make you a better player. It makes your team a better team.
I can't believe people are still giving this ridiculous argument any credence.

no, it just means you've had more success. which is the whole point of this, isn't it?

what makes you a better player? people's opinions?

 

[jimmycarter]

bruins win the cup with kessel this year. FACT!

 

[Rielly Good]

I could care less what Seguin turns into. I am VERY happy with the progress of Kessel's 2-Way Game under RC. Not to mention I thought he was just a one dimensional scorer when he got here, now he is proving to be a great playmaker. All of this with Bozak as his Center. Im excited to see what Kadri/trade Center/FA can do with Kessel.

Im not sure if I will go into another Kessel Vs Sequin thread again lol

Lastly, there points are very similar up until 21, But I think Kessel took that leap into Elite Scoring Numbers. I dont think Seguin will do that. Just my opinion though.

 

[Rielly Good]

bruins win the cup with kessel this year. FACT!

Yes they do!!

 

[The Blue Devil]

I wholeheartedly reject that assessment. Just because you want it that way doesn't necessarily make it so. And that's not because I feel Seguin has shown more "superstar upside" in his first 3 years than Kessel. I'm saying Kessel hasn't shown me superstar after 6 seasons. Most agree Kessel to this point is a complimentary player, not THE go to Guy. Anyway, talk of Kessel only pisses me off. I'm not his biggest fan. I'll go prepare for my draft day BBQ party.

Back-back PPG seasons disagree with you. And who are most people? He's clearly shown to be a key player on our team.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Yes but the consensus among the hockey world is that kessel never ever should have fetched that price.

Seguin not being worth that doesn't mean kessel was. Remember...the bruins got hamilton too........it's gonna take longer than this to know who truly won it, but if seguin becomes and remains a 30 goal scorer and hamilton develops into what he should...than you guys have been outrageously robbed. Kessel has one dimension...seguin is more allrounded.

You should pay better attention.

 

[Rielly Good]

I used to believe Kessel was complimentary. But the last two season show he can carry a Line easily, He can bring it in big games, and he is starting to play more ofa 2-way game. He is no longer comlimentary, He is our Franchise Player.

 

[Deebo]

Yes, it's sad that we got the better player...

Ill never understand some people.

It has to do with the name of the GM who made the deal, that's really it with lots of these fans.

 

[leach11]

At the same age there is very little difference between Kessel and Seguin as a posted above.

Of course one can always reduce the population of data used to manipulate the results, or add variables to make one look better. But does that take into account playing styles ... run and gun versus trap?

All I did was use their career stats ... we know Kessel doesn't bring intangibles that would make any difference. Kessel is about points, that's it.

Before age 22:

Kessel 141 points in 237 games
Seguin 139 points in 245 games

AND THIS DOESN'T even include Hamilton:
CHL Scholastic Player of the Year (2010–11)[7]
OHL Bobby Smith Trophy (2010–11)
OHL Max Kaminsky Trophy (2011–12)
NHL NESN Boston Bruins 7th Player Award (2012-13)

Except Kessel never regressed, Seguin did. Regardless of the similarities between Seguin and Kessel's point production in the early stages of their careers, Kessel has been top 10 in the league in points the last two season and is a ppg player in the playoffs. Until Seguin is able to achieve feats, such as these, it is slightly ridiculous to consider him in the same conversation as Kessel. This isn't to say that he won't be able to do so; however, there is no question that the odds are stacked against him. Kessel is proven elite production, whereas Seguin is speculative elite production.

 

[ULF_55]

I used to believe Kessel was complimentary. But the last two season show he can carry a Line easily, He can bring it in big games, and he is starting to play more ofa 2-way game. He is no longer comlimentary, He is our Franchise Player.

I agree he's working harder in all zones. He's 25 much closer to his prime.

 

[Frankie]

Yes, it's sad that we got the better player...

Ill never understand some people.

but who cares if we got the better player? is the idea to get the better player, or is the idea to advance to team forwards to actually winning? those two things don't always jive.

I just don't care about phil kessel. he's on the team temporarily, and hopefully he can be part of a winning leafs team while he's here. beyond that, I don't care about him or his stats or any individual numbers or trophies he might get.

 

[Rielly Good]

Even if Seguin turns into Chris Kelly, Knight never plays, and Hamilton turns into Hal Gill. There will still be people who think we Lost the trade.
Theyll say "Well if we didn't make the trade they could have been used differently here and would have developed better...Blah blah blah".

I love the trade. I really do, and nobody can change that for me. Gotta give to Get. and we got one Hell of a player that keeps getting better.

 

[Rielly Good]

I agree he's working harder in all zones. He's 25 much closer to his prime.

He is closer to his prime. I just dont see much offense upside in Seguin, he will get his points, he will. I just dont see him making that jump to where Kessel is ATM.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Who cares?

 

[TRask]

Lol u guys reallllllly need to get over this. We dont even talk about the trade on the Bruins board. Toronto fans bringing it up daily speaks volumes....

 

[Tonka]

How is Knight doing?

What is Knight doing?

 

[Tonka]

Lol u guys reallllllly need to get over this. We dont even talk about the trade on the Bruins board. Toronto fans bringing it up daily speaks volumes....

Probably a good reason for that. We try not to talk about Raycroft for Rask.

 

[TRask]

Probably a good reason for that.

Naw, we're more then happy with the trade. We've just moved on.

I mean look at the Thornton trade. Now that was brutal. But you dont see us bringing it up over and over.

If the leafs are happy with it, the Bruins are deffinatly happy with it. Shouldnt we both just move on?

 

[Tonka]

Naw, we're more then happy with the trade. We've just moved on.

I mean look at the Thornton trade. Now that was brutal. But you dont see us bringing it up over and over.

If the leafs are happy with it, the Bruins are deffinatly happy with it. Shouldnt we both just move on?

Like I said, a good reason not to bring it up. But I agree just move on.

 

[The Blue Devil]

boston won that trade because they won a cup

Sarcasm?

 

[TRask]

Like I said, a good reason not to bring it up. But I agree just move on.

I agree. I just wish both fan bases could move on. Im a huge Bruins fan, but i have to admit, my second team is the leafs. Its hard not to be growing up on the east coast watching hnic every saturday.
We need a team here in Halifax so i can get outta this Leafs/Bruins tug of war that im caught up in the middle of lol

 

[beamer67]

he said, "Winning a cup is a team accomplishment. It very rarely and very little has anything to do with personal achievements."

that's dead wrong. being part of a Stanley cup winning team is a huge personal achievement. its the ultimate goal of every individual player. (well, aside from making as much money as they possibly can).

seguin has reached the pinnacle once, and almost twice, only 3 years into his nhl career. he's miles ahead of kessel.

but if we're happy to claim kessel has more "tools" and create stats that show he has contributed more to less, good for us, I guess.

Frankie go back to hollywood you obviously belong in lala land.