News Article: Did the Detroit Red Wings Get Better?

[Syckle78]

Cool?

The year after Liddy retired we took the Cup champs to 7 games after being up 3-1. I think Suter and Parise coulda helped a little.

Not surprising a dude still rocking the tired "tiesgo2vets" moniker would be pessimistic about our chances.

And you're rocking the tired but we almost beat the cup champs spiel.

 

[Ezekial]

And you're rocking the tired but we almost beat the cup champs spiel.

:yawn: adding a real D and top line winger to that team and we have a chance. Which was what I was rocking. Not the "we would've sucked anyway and they wouldn't have made a difference because Ken Holland sucks" camp.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

:yawn: adding a real D and top line winger to that team and we have a chance. Which was what I was rocking. Not the "we would've sucked anyway and they wouldn't have made a difference because Ken Holland sucks" camp.

That’s asking for a lot, dude, lmao.

 

[Invictus12]

That’s asking for a lot, dude, lmao.

It's not alot when people are screaming for cap space so we could trade for a number 1 D-man or a top center though...

Its certainly more likely to sign one than trade for one. Mind you that folks aren't screaming for any top center or d-man. You guys very much emphasize that they have to be young too... Because, you know? Gms are just giving them away left and right.

 

[Shaman464]

It's not alot when people are screaming for cap space so we could trade for a number 1 D-man or a top center though...

Its certainly more likely to sign one than trade for one. Mind you that folks aren't screaming for any top center or d-man. You guys very much emphasize that they have to be young too... Because, you know? Gms are just giving them away left and right.

Yeah trading the future away for a 34 year old 'top' defenseman makes a TON of sense. Whereas trading for a guy who would be developing in line with the current players that could make up a future core, that's just nonsense!

 

[Invictus12]

Yeah trading the future away for a 34 year old 'top' defenseman makes a TON of sense. Whereas trading for a guy who would be developing in line with the current players that could make up a future core, that's just nonsense!

I'm seriously trying to figure out whether you couldn't comprehend my point or purposely ignoring it.

Go re-read what I was replying to and then get back to me because as it stands, your reply makes no sense to what I said.

 

[Dotter]

I'll spell it out for you.

1. Signing veterans typically costs more. The ones we're getting aren't top tier. They aren't even a step down from that. They're all players who are clearly on the downhill of their careers.
2. Signing veterans takes up cap space and roster space.
3. With veterans you know what you're getting. They're typically consistent. Vanek and Green will keep the team steady, even if it's steadily bad. What they won't allow is for us to bottom out. Like literally last 2-3 spots.
4. Kids might be better. Might be worse. Might be the same. But there's benefits to all of them. If kids are better, great! Future looks good! We have players who aren't going to retire in the next 3 years, who we have rights to, who are cheaper. Awesome! If they're worse/inconsistent, we've helped the tank! Yaaaay! If they're the same, nothing lost, but cap/roster space gained. And it's always helpful to figure out exactly what you have in your picks. We're always guessing before they make the show. Educated guesses for sure, but guesses nonetheless. So Pulkkinen craps out and goes to Europe after blowing up the AHL. You need to see the kids to know what you have and knowing what you have is crucial in determining what to do with players and identifying your needs/weaknesses.

In short, yes the veterans we sign keep the team bad but not bad enough. Kids could make the team worse, better, or the same, but using kids over veterans brings many advantages that veterans don't.

So throw the kids to the wolves and rebuild like the Oilers have the past 20 years? I cannot get on board wth this. Sorry.

 

[Fear]

The loss of Tatar has been understated ... Red wings were 26-26-10 (82 point pace) before trade deadline. Afterwards they were 4-13-3 (45 point pace??). Not too much of a stretch to imagine them doing worse than 73 points this year, especially if they sell off big at the deadline.

 

[jkutswings]

So throw the kids to the wolves and rebuild like the Oilers have the past 20 years? I cannot get on board wth this. Sorry.

But there's room in between total baptism by fire and having 4-5 mediocre vets for each kid that plays.

 

[Henkka]

The loss of Tatar has been understated ... Red wings were 26-26-10 (82 point pace) before trade deadline. Afterwards they were 4-13-3 (45 point pace??). Not too much of a stretch to imagine them doing worse than 73 points this year, especially if they sell off big at the deadline.

The loss of Tatar was our finest hour on the whole season. Biggest win.

 

[Claypool]

But there's room in between total baptism by fire and having 4-5 mediocre vets for each kid that plays.

Vanek isn't a mediocre vet. I don't know where this is coming from.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Vanek isn't a mediocre vet. I don't know where this is coming from.

Are you arguing that he's better or worse than a mediocre vet?

He's a one dimensional player who the Wings could barely give away at the trade deadline.

 

[lilidk]

The loss of Tatar has been understated ... Red wings were 26-26-10 (82 point pace) before trade deadline. Afterwards they were 4-13-3 (45 point pace??). Not too much of a stretch to imagine them doing worse than 73 points this year, especially if they sell off big at the deadline.

it is time , before playoffs when every team play their best.
It is amazing how good Toronto become in the last 3 years , We simply need better coach for start

 

[TheMule93]

It doesn't matter if we got better or not. In fact I'd prefer to have another season with top 5 pick more than anything.

 

[jkutswings]

Vanek isn't a mediocre vet. I don't know where this is coming from.

Mediocre: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance; ordinary or so-so

Over the last 4 years, Vanek averaged 49 points, had a negative plus/minus every year, yielded increasingly poor trade returns, and turns 35 in January.

That's extremely ordinary to me.

I'm not saying he's going to fall apart and be the target of a buy-out. I'm saying that going forward, he's a fairly pedestrian player, which he is.

And more importantly, that he's one of many pedestrian players on the roster. Detroit could cull a few more and still have a veteran presence, as opposed to adding more.

 

[Fear]

The loss of Tatar was our finest hour on the whole season. Biggest win.

Probably long term but unless you expect Veleno to play in the NHL this year it will certainly make next years team worse

 

[Goalie guy]

With the loss of Z we will be a bottom 3 team and I'm fine with that for the better pick.

 

[Henkka]

Probably long term but unless you expect Veleno to play in the NHL this year it will certainly make next years team worse

I usually think 90% long-term, about everything.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The loss of Tatar has been understated ... Red wings were 26-26-10 (82 point pace) before trade deadline. Afterwards they were 4-13-3 (45 point pace??). Not too much of a stretch to imagine them doing worse than 73 points this year, especially if they sell off big at the deadline.

We also spent the entire season saying they were going to get crushed during that period of their schedule, which they did. Tatar was traded but we knew all year that right near the deadline we were going to enter a very tough stretch. He also wasn't very good last year so I struggle to see that, it would be like me point to Mrazek as the reason a bad team lost their toughest series of games all year... It just seems unlikely.

I really think with Z unlikely to return we are the worst team in the league. Barring massive steps out of Larkin, Mantha and Athanasiou. Plus Bernier and Howard would need to be lights out. Our D stinks and now our at worst third best forward this year is unlikely to play. That is a big deal

 

[WingedWheel1987]

It isn't disingenuous to question whether the Wings are rebuilding when you see that they are icing the oldest and most expensive team in the league. I guess you could argue that the Wings are implementing a super secret rebuilding strategy, but then again, you could also argue that the moon landing was fake.

 

[Ezekial]

They're not rebuilding because they're old?

That's a dumb stance to take. Maybe if all those shit contracts were for sure going to be renewed when they expire.

Rebuilding =/= 15 players under 25, rebuilding implies you're acquiring young talent for the future, soon we'll have it.
Having old players early in a rebuild is not detrimental to it unless you retain all of them for shits and giggles or have to retain them because your young players suck.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It isn't disingenuous to question whether the Wings are rebuilding when you see that they are icing the oldest and most expensive team in the league. I guess you could argue that the Wings are implementing a super secret rebuilding strategy, but then again, you could also argue that the moon landing was fake.

Most picks in the league in the 17-19 drafts = super secret rebuilding strategy

 

[Henkka]

Most picks in the league in the 17-19 drafts = super secret rebuilding strategy

It's very surprising that you have to draft the young players first. Then the old players miraclously retire on some time frame and suddenly you have a young team.

AMAZING!

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It's obviously a rebuild, just a wonky one.

 

[Bench]

They're not rebuilding because they're old?

That's a dumb stance to take. Maybe if all those **** contracts were for sure going to be renewed when they expire.

For starters, long as Holland is here, Helm and Abby are going to need to be in wheelchairs to not get contract renewals. Even then, if one of them can push the other...

As for turning over old jobs to young players, well, I've been hearing that argument for a decade. "Soon as Lidstrom and Holmstrom retire..." then "Soon as Cleary and Datsyuk are gone..." And so on. Each year, Holland finds a way to stuff in some old boys to round out the roster and keep the Wings as one of the most veteran teams to ever veteran.

I'm not all doom and gloom about it, but trust me, this team finds a way to keep the average age up. It's one of those things that was a point of pride (how many of our players beat father time or revived careers), then it was kind of a joke, and now it's a predictable organizational mechanism.