Did signing Tavares lead to the Leafs' downfall?

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WetcoastOrca

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Jun 3, 2011
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what downfall, it is 20 games into year 2 and the Leafs are 4 points out of a playoff spot, Islander fans getting excited over this need to check themselves
Actually 22 games and they’ve played at least two more games and in some cases 5 more games than their competitors. In the three point era that 4 points behind a few teams is a pretty big gap especially given the extra games they’ve played.
Still time to salvage the season but they need to start getting it together soon. The St. Louis Blues model is not the type of season you want to plan on happening many times.
 

BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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Only in Leaf Land can signing the Vezina runner-up as an FA is considered a depth player to be put down

They have Andersen in net, Tavares vs Chiarot/Brassard+ Lehner is pretty easy.

Tavares would have/should have made a better asset available than Lehner, Dubas just went showing off and got himself into a corner.

This is exactly how I see it.

When they signed JT I thought it was a good thing, Tavares is really solid steady older player who will lead a young Leafs team. I also thought Nylander would have to be moved because he was a luxury and not a necessity and obviously would be a cap issue soon.

Then Dubas says "we can, we will" and I think he has to be lying.

I mean he kept his word but the balance of the team is just so off now and the obvious answer is to move Nylander. I guess time will tell if Dubas will go back on his statement, but it seems to me like they have no choice. I can guarantee if a new GM comes in Nylander will be the first guy out the door.

I'm sure he was feeling all great after his comments but damm did he mess up at that moment.

Can't trade any of the guys and all of them went for max money.
 

Finlandia WOAT

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May 23, 2010
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It's like a story out of a 1001 Nights. Dubas found a magic lamp and wished for 3 elite forward talents (and also Nylander). *snap* And it was so. But all four were stylistically similar and demanded huge contracts, sucking money away from a defensive corp that slowly shrank from mediocre to bad.
 
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Mickey Marner

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Jul 9, 2014
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No, having two 1Cs greatly increases your odds of winning a cup. Outside of that acquisition, they've been poorly coached and managed.
 

Paperbagofglory

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Nov 15, 2010
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Who cares. It will always the be the right thing to sign a superstar when he comes knocking.

You don't manage a team like you manage GM mode in NHL 20. Too much of a good thing still applies to building a proper roster. You can't have too many of the same players composing your top 6. Its all skill with no bite, they are soft and weak defensively. Marner is the best one out of lot and there is a reason they are struggling now but held their ground when Tavares was injured.

You can never have 4 players taking so much of your cap especially if they are similar types of players with similar weaknesses in their game.
 

34

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Mar 26, 2010
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Agree with the OP.

Toronto signing Tavares was a huge mistake. He is not a good captain, it is obvious he was Babcock’s choice, and that is now biting the team. He should never have been named captain, this is 100% Auston Matthews team.

He looks so slow this year and washed up. The Leafs would be a better team without him, just like the Islanders have proved.
 

Perfect_Drug

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Mar 24, 2006
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Who cares. It will always the be the right thing to sign a superstar when he comes knocking.

To a degree... i guess?

I mean... it just seems nearly every UFA signing that brings a player into retirement has been a complete and utter failure of epic proportions since 2006.
Hoping Tavares bucks that trend is wishful thinking. But at least you're getting at least 2-3 years of elite play, before he drops off to become the albatross we assume he will become.

There's a pretty bad precedence for these contracts. Especially for players past 30 (which he's turning later this season).
Zach Parise
Jamie Benn
Ryan Getzlaf
PK Subban


The Matthews-Marner-Reilly-Kadri window seemed to be the foundation you were supposed to surround your team with.
You guys were almost setup to be the Chicago Blackhawks v2.0.

Hindsight being 20/20

Signing Tavares sort of wrecked that window. I guess if he were your Hossa, but needed to make way less money for way less term. But you signed him to the 2nd highest contract in the league, for the longest possible term.
 
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Koolboss

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Jul 4, 2011
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To a degree... i guess?

I mean... it just seems nearly every UFA signing that brings a player into retirement has been a complete and utter failure of epic proportions since 2006.
Hoping Tavares bucks that trend is wishful thinking. But at least you're getting at least 2-3 years of elite play, before he drops off to become the albatross we assume he will become.

There's a pretty bad precedence for these contracts. Especially for players past 30 (which he's turning later this season).
Zach Parise
Jamie Benn
Ryan Getzlaf
PK Subban


The Matthews-Marner-Reilly-Kadri window seemed to be the foundation you were supposed to surround your team with.
You guys were almost setup to be the Chicago Blackhawks v2.0.

Hindsight being 20/20

Signing Tavares sort of wrecked that window. I guess if he were your Hossa, but needed to make way less money for way less term. But you signed him to the 2nd highest contract in the league, for the longest possible term.
I agree, Kadri was a much better option for less than half of JT's contract.
 

Pure Slaughter Value

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Jun 6, 2002
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what downfall, it is 20 games into year 2 and the Leafs are 4 points out of a playoff spot, Islander fans getting excited over this need to check themselves

Islanders fans are excited but it has nothing to do with John Tavares.

Leafs needed their young D to (unrealistically) step up during the preseason. None did, so this is an awkward season defensively for the franchise. Dermott, Liligren and Sandin needed to be important NHL D-men but one was injured, one didn't do enough to displace a Top 4 and one's not ready. They'll be fine at the position next year.

One of Barrie or Muzzin (obviously looks like Muzzin) should be resigned. They'll go into next season with a better (and just as importantly) less expensive D.

Dubas probably shouldn't knee-jerk here and scramble the on-ice personnel.

Fire the coach, bring up Keefe to implement a system and see how they finish with 60 games left in the season.
 

Canadiens Ghost

Mr. Objectivity
Dec 14, 2011
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Still early to be counting the Leafs out but if anything, hiring Dubas is leading to the Leafs downfall.

There was no need to sign Tavares when offense was not the problem. But that mistake could have been eliminated and turned into a massive win if Dubas would have traded another one of his star forwards for that much needed help on D. Tavares not giving a hometown discount also didn't help considering the young guns knew at that moment that they were holding the big end of the stick when the time would come to negotiate their next contract.

That proverbial window that should have lasted for quite a few years might close pretty quickly if Dubas is not willing to bring some balance between his offense and defense.
 

Caeldan

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Jun 21, 2008
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(Obviously as an Isles fan, this thread will be taken in a very rational way by readers...)

There's no question Tavares is a talented player. 47 goals and 88 points last year, 14 points in 15 games this year. It's not really a question of whether he is worth what he's getting paid.

The question is, did the Leafs make a mistake in adding him to their roster, when they really didn't need another high-powered forward.
  • Adding Tavares at $11 million per year instantly increased what the younger RFAs would be getting paid on their next contract. You could argue that Matthews and Marner were getting bank either way, but with Tavares as a team comparable, it made it easy for the duo to point at Tavares and say, there's what we will be getting paid. Look at the other big RFA signings around the league, and only Panarin topped them, and most are well below their price tags. This ends up hurting the team depth, as the cap space shrinks.
  • Adding $11 million for one forward, meant $11 million less in cap for depth players, defense and back-up goaltending. If they hadn't signed Tavares (besides whatever less they would have possibly paid Matthews and Marner), this past offseason they could have added, for example, Robin Lehner, Ben Chiarot, and Derrick Brassard (or any other number of solid depth additions.)
  • For a team that seems stuck in a morass, Tavares is not the captain to raise them up. He's never been a rah-rah guy, instead letting his play speak for him. That works if you've got the character in the line-up to follow an example, but with such a young team, they either needed a big voice or someone who's been the summit. Tavares is not that guy.
  • There's a case to be made that Dubas was playing NHL 20 GM in signing Tavares. Loading up on scorers works in a video game, but in reality, you need role players. You need grinding centers, you need defensively responsible wingers and you need physical defensemen. Dubas apparently just planned to win every game 6-5, and when his planned offense didn't materialize, his team sunk like a stone.
The worst thing about the situation for the Leafs, because of all the long-term, high-dollar contracts, is, there's no clear way out. You either have to sell low on players and set yourself back even more, or pin your hopes on a new coach being able to turn players into something they currently aren't, since the players they need aren't on the roster, and there's no room to add them.

I think it was more allowing Nylander to get his way, sitting out half a season and signing for pretty much what he wanted.

Dubas needed to play hardball with him, then he could have had Mathews and Marner at more reasonable numbers.
 

MattMartin

Killer Instinct™
Feb 10, 2007
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IMHO...

I think the idea was to keep Kadri/Marleau around til the players matured seeing their contracts were not a hindrance at all. When JT signed it threw a wrench in the whole plans. I understand the Leafs fans for being upset at Lou for signing Marleau , but let's be honest here, without JT being signed cap would have not been a issue.

It's still very early in the season and moves can be made. If they don't compete for the cup this year doesn't mean they can't move a player or 2 before next season and sure up their D.
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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Hard to not sign a guy like Tavares when you have the opportunity. But Leafs didn’t really need him and I’m sure they could have used the money smarter even if it wouldn’t have been as flashy on paper.
 
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DS7

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Oct 9, 2013
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It was the right move, no other team would skip on Tavares if given the chance. It's most likely the coaching. Not playing Tavares and Matthews 20+ minutes in Game 7 led to the downfall
 

hoglund

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Dec 8, 2013
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Maybe, Tavares came from the Islanders who were terrible many years and Tavares got used to a losing culture so he can't get motivated to get the Leafs out of this slump because he's too used to losing.
 

Baksfamous112

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Jul 21, 2016
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I think he did. Not that he’s a bad player but having 3 players making over 10M a season is hard on the cap. They should’ve stayed with Matthews/Kadri
 

ABCUser

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Mar 9, 2016
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If Tavares had taken a hometown discount (say 10) and stayed with the Islanders, coupled with Ladd getting Insurance retirement and the 4/5 Mil they have in cap space, I'm wondering if that would have enticed Panarin to join them instead of the Rags. Then you would of had that great Trotz coached defensive team with Barzal, Tavares, & Panarin. I'm pretty sure that would have been a recipe for a true "Cup Contender". They may of had to let Leddy and/or do another move, but I think it would have been possible.
 

leaffaninvancouver

formerly in Victoria
Jan 11, 2012
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Good god are people here overly dramatic. It’s not even December, and the Leafs skid isn’t a downfall.

When they go on a hot streak, I hope all the positive articles on the main boards about it won’t bother anyone.

Cheers.
 
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authentic

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Jan 28, 2015
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Downfall... Downfall? We're 20 games into the season and you want to talk about downfall? St. Louis at this point last season was worse than Toronto is now. I'm not saying we're going to win the Cup this season but we will make the playoffs and then who knows from there. I just hope they fire Babcock sooner than later because I don't think him and this team are a match made in heaven and so we likely won't get to the promised land while they're together.
 
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