Confirmed with Link: Devils waive Cory Schneider

[NjDevsRR]

This is pathetic. Cory was one of the best puck stoppers in the league in his first three years here.

NEWSFLASH, if he had a league average offense in front of him which would have gave us an additional 40-50 more goals than NO SHIT he would have a ton more wins since his GAA was stellar.

Y’all are pathetic, especially the ones who are acting like we are defending his entire career. NO, just the first three years here where he put up incredible numbers which cannot be disputed. You are the ones changing the subject and moving the goalposts because your narrative sucks and holds no water.

 

[HBK27]

Hope Cory finds his game in Binghamton.

At least Bing isn't too far away that Cory should at least be able to come back to NJ for off days if he wants.

 

[Billdo]

Phew, I'm glad this thread has settled down since yesterday...

 

[haak84]

This is pathetic. Cory was one of the best puck stoppers in the league in his first three years here.

NEWSFLASH, if he had a league average offense in front of him which would have gave us an additional 40-50 more goals than NO **** he would have a ton more wins since his GAA was stellar.

Y’all are pathetic, especially the ones who are acting like we are defending his entire career. NO, just the first three years here where he put up incredible numbers which cannot be disputed. You are the ones changing the subject and moving the goalposts because your narrative sucks and holds no water.

Moving goal posts? Someone said he had 2 decent seasons with the devils and someone else air quoted decent. But it’s a fact. Dude became a starting goalie in the prime of his career. Got paid. Then got injured. Just wasn’t good enough.

from ‘13-‘17 Schneider was a great goalie. There were better goalies in the league. He was borderline top 5. Ya’ll acting like he was hasek is pathetic.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Moving goal posts? Someone said he had 2 decent seasons with the devils and someone else air quoted decent. But it’s a fact. Dude became a starting goalie in the prime of his career. Got paid. Then got injured. Just wasn’t good enough.

from ‘13-‘17 Schneider was a great goalie. There were better goalies in the league. He was borderline top 5. Ya’ll acting like he was hasek is pathetic.

Not one person has said this.

The entire argument was that he was a great/top 5 goalie for a few years there, but the team in front of him was pathetic therefore he didn't win nearly as many games as he should have. That's it.

No one is claiming him to be an all-time great or anything.

 

[Better Call Sal]

from ‘13-‘17 Schneider was a great goalie. There were better goalies in the league. He was borderline top 5.

You managed to somehow sum up exactly what all of the people here supporting Cory have been trying to say with these 3 sentences. No one has been implying anything else whatsoever.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Never used the mute button before, there are three on my list right now that I might have to pull the trigger on. Insanity....

 

[GameSeven]

Nice Coreigh!

I'm Cor-Rich Biatch!

 

[The 29th Pick]

Never used the mute button before, there are three on my list right now that I might have to pull the trigger on. Insanity....

I hear ya, thank goodness there's a game tonight, it'll change the topic for a while

 

[Triumph]

Moving goal posts? Someone said he had 2 decent seasons with the devils and someone else air quoted decent. But it’s a fact. Dude became a starting goalie in the prime of his career. Got paid. Then got injured. Just wasn’t good enough.

from ‘13-‘17 Schneider was a great goalie. There were better goalies in the league. He was borderline top 5. Ya’ll acting like he was hasek is pathetic.

This is underrating Schneider because he played in a home arena that undercounts shots on goal - Rask, Crawford, and Gibson all played in home arenas that overcount them. So Schneider is probably missing around 200 saves relative to those 3 at least and probably around 100 relative to the rest. And I think that's a slight underestimate.

 

[Bleedred]

Moving goal posts? Someone said he had 2 decent seasons with the devils and someone else air quoted decent. But it’s a fact. Dude became a starting goalie in the prime of his career. Got paid. Then got injured. Just wasn’t good enough.

from ‘13-‘17 Schneider was a great goalie. There were better goalies in the league. He was borderline top 5. Ya’ll acting like he was hasek is pathetic.

You're using his first decline season in here also. 16-17 was his first poor year and it's calculated in this.

Use it for just 13-14 through 15-16 and it's gotta be higher than that. I'd bet he goes up to second on that list behind only Price.

 

[MartyOwns]

This is underrating Schneider because he played in a home arena that undercounts shots on goal - Rask, Crawford, and Gibson all played in home arenas that overcount them. So Schneider is probably missing around 200 saves relative to those 3 at least and probably around 100 relative to the rest. And I think that's a slight underestimate.

you’re really reaching here

 

[Triumph]

you’re really reaching here

I'm not - if you use save percentage as a metric, you have to be aware that some rinks overcount shots on goal and some undercount. New Jersey is traditionally the largest undercounter. It cost Brodeur a few points on his career save percentage as well.

 

[MartyOwns]

I'm not - if you use save percentage as a metric, you have to be aware that some rinks overcount shots on goal and some undercount. New Jersey is traditionally the largest undercounter. It cost Brodeur a few points on his career save percentage as well.

that’s not quantifiable, but even if it was you would have to take into account every other team’s shot total tendencies to be fair. does vancouver also “undercount”? who knows

if it happened in the 90’s fine, but so many stats are meticulously tracked these days, a consistent discrepancy would stick out like a sore thumb

 

[awegrzyn]

I am not convinced poor performance by Schneider is all on him and his injuries. I think it's mostly on the defense and his confidence from it, or lack of it. I would not be surprised if he actually turns things around on a good team.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Yet another angle that tries to untie that Gordian knot - what will it yield?
Cory Schneider had the best SV% of all time at the end of 2015-16. All time. That doesn't mean he was the best goalie of all-time, far from it, but at his peak he was one of the best goalies to ever play. He's still 8th all time despite being average to bad the last 4 seasons. No goalie will have a career like him - no goalie will ever again sit patiently behind a top-tier goalie for 6 years until being traded at age 27, and then end up on a dismal team with no hope of winning anything. It's just such an unlikely confluence of events.

This is underrating Schneider because he played in a home arena that undercounts shots on goal - Rask, Crawford, and Gibson all played in home arenas that overcount them. So Schneider is probably missing around 200 saves relative to those 3 at least and probably around 100 relative to the rest. And I think that's a slight underestimate.

These are wildly comical statements. I can't take you seriously.

Like I said, the effort to pump up Cory's good years here like we were witnessing greatness is something I just cannot understand in any way, shape, or form.
There is no way in hell you guys would be shamelessly over-inflating Cory's peak years with far-fetched qualifiers like this if he was on another team other than the Devils. It's actually kind of embarrassing.

 

[Triumph]

These are wildly comical statements. I can't take you seriously.

Like I said, the effort to pump up Cory's good years here like we were witnessing greatness is something I just cannot understand in any way, shape, or form.
There is no way in hell you guys would be shamelessly over-inflating Cory's peak years with far-fetched qualifiers like this if he was on another team other than the Devils. It's actually kind of embarrassing.

You're wrong, but you don't know that you're wrong. Plenty of great goalies toiled in obscurity - Tomas Vokoun never won anything - great goalie nonetheless. Luongo was great, never won a Stanley Cup - wasn't his fault he didn't win one. John Gibson is one the best goalies in the league - right now his team's not going anywhere and he probably won't win a whole lot with Anaheim.

We witnessed greatness with Cory here for those 3 seasons. We also witnessed dismal, dismal hockey in front of him too. In a 31 team NHL, not only are some great players not going to win a Stanley Cup, some won't even come close, and it won't be their play that's the reason.

 

[guitarguyvic]

You're wrong, but you don't know that you're wrong. Plenty of great goalies toiled in obscurity - Tomas Vokoun never won anything - great goalie nonetheless. Luongo was great, never won a Stanley Cup - wasn't his fault he didn't win one. John Gibson is one the best goalies in the league - right now his team's not going anywhere and he probably won't win a whole lot with Anaheim.

We witnessed greatness with Cory here for those 3 seasons. We also witnessed dismal, dismal hockey in front of him too. In a 31 team NHL, not only are some great players not going to win a Stanley Cup, some won't even come close, and it won't be their play that's the reason.

Luongo did a shit ton of winning and was quite obviously an excellent goaltender outside of just save percentage. I have no idea why you're bringing up the Stanley Cup, I've never claimed that not winning a championship means a player is not great.
John Gibson appears to be a pretty good goalie, but I don't follow Anaheim closely enough to comment on how "great" he is.
Tomas Vokoun was not a "great" goalie, you clearly have a very different definition of what greatness is. And I think that's the crux of the problem. Cory had a few seasons with us where he put up some good looking save percentages. But I watched him play and I did not see greatness. In a team sport, he did not move the needle as far as team results go. When he played a significant amount for a very talented team, they won as much as you'd expect but nothing more. When he was playing consistently for a bad team, he didn't make them significantly better than that. When he was on an average team, he played like crap and got injured. And then from there he was no longer an NHL caliber goalie.
Completely unremarkable. I wouldn't say he was bad, but he was not what his save percentage suggested for those handful of season either.

By the way - I can think of roughly 7 goalies during Cory's peak years that I consider (then and now) to be better. That is not greatness. Sorry.

 

[Bleedred]

I am not convinced poor performance by Schneider is all on him and his injuries. I think it's mostly on the defense and his confidence from it, or lack of it. I would not be surprised if he actually turns things around on a good team.

Then why is every other goalie on the team since his decline started outplaying him? I would be surprised if he ever plays an NHL game for another team. He’s probably out of the league after this year. I could see him playing a few more games for us and that’s it.

 

[Triumph]

Luongo did a **** ton of winning and was quite obviously an excellent goaltender outside of just save percentage. I have no idea why you're bringing up the Stanley Cup, I've never claimed that not winning a championship means a player is not great.
John Gibson appears to be a pretty good goalie, but I don't follow Anaheim closely enough to comment on how "great" he is.
Tomas Vokoun was not a "great" goalie, you clearly have a very different definition of what greatness is. And I think that's the crux of the problem. Cory had a few seasons with us where he put up some good looking save percentages. But I watched him play and I did not see greatness. In a team sport, he did not move the needle as far as team results go. When he played a significant amount for a very talented team, they won as much as you'd expect but nothing more. When he was playing consistently for a bad team, he didn't make them significantly better than that. When he was on an average team, he played like crap and got injured. And then from there he was no longer an NHL caliber goalie.
Completely unremarkable. I wouldn't say he was bad, but he was not what his save percentage suggested for those handful of season either.

By the way - I can think of roughly 7 goalies during Cory's peak years that I consider (then and now) to be better. That is not greatness. Sorry.

We're going round and round on this so I'll end this here. I don't care what goalies you can think of that are better - you don't have any sort of framework for thinking about them, so it's just your opinion, half-remembered dross and speculation and nonsense - I've heard plenty of that in this thread.

Cory Schneider was 3rd in the league between 2013-14 and 2015-16 in Goals Against Percentage. Hockey-reference has him 42 goals better than average over that span, and that's with the shot undercounting done in New Jersey. Unfortunately his legacy here is making terrible teams pick higher in the draft and covering up the disaster that was here - the teams he left behind should've been atrocious, given the talent level, but they were just garden-variety bad. Unfortunately it means people like you who judge everything by winning and losing can't see when an excellent performance is being squandered by subpar talent and execution around him. Those teams should've been left to rot - they should've been as bad as they actually were, but for Cory, saving them time and time again. All he'll ever get for that is opprobrium from the draft-obsessed ('he cost us McDavid or Eichel') or the indifference of a fanbase grown spoiled on constant victory.

 

[NjDevsRR]

We're going round and round on this so I'll end this here. I don't care what goalies you can think of that are better - you don't have any sort of framework for thinking about them, so it's just your opinion, half-remembered dross and speculation and nonsense - I've heard plenty of that in this thread.

Cory Schneider was 3rd in the league between 2013-14 and 2015-16 in Goals Against Percentage. Hockey-reference has him 42 goals better than average over that span, and that's with the shot undercounting done in New Jersey. Unfortunately his legacy here is making terrible teams pick higher in the draft and covering up the disaster that was here - the teams he left behind should've been atrocious, given the talent level, but they were just garden-variety bad. Unfortunately it means people like you who judge everything by winning and losing can't see when an excellent performance is being squandered by subpar talent and execution around him. Those teams should've been left to rot - they should've been as bad as they actually were, but for Cory, saving them time and time again. All he'll ever get for that is opprobrium from the draft-obsessed ('he cost us McDavid or Eichel') or the indifference of a fanbase grown spoiled on constant victory.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Your argument is that those devils teams would have been historically bad / 30th overall every single one of those years if not for Cory, instead of just being bottom 5?

How is that being quantified? How do you know that would be the case?

Do you really believe those were all-time bad rosters that were “saved” (pun intended) by Cory from being among the all time worst teams ever??

 

[NjDevsRR]

Your argument is that those devils teams would have been historically bad / 30th overall every single one of those years if not for Cory, instead of just being bottom 5?

How is that being quantified? How do you know that would be the case?

Do you really believe those were all-time bad rosters that were “saved” (pun intended) by Cory from being among the all time worst teams ever??

Sigh, a goalie without that incredible GAA and Save Percentage (which he has the 2nd and 3rd best in each category in Devils history) would have given up many more goals resulting in many more losses since they couldn’t score to save their lives resulting in a HORRENDOUS team finishing in the basement instead of a below average team in purgatory.

This isn’t hard.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Sigh, a goalie without that incredible GAA and Save Percentage (which he has the 2nd and 3rd best in each category in Devils history) would have given up many more goals resulting in many more losses since they couldn’t score to save their lives resulting in a HORRENDOUS team finishing in the basement instead of a below average team in purgatory.

This isn’t hard.

In two of the three peak Cory seasons the team finished bottom five overall in the league. That is not “below average in purgatory” as you put it. That is a basement dweller team. How much more losing do you think those teams would have done without Cory? Being worse means they would have been among the worst teams in NHL history...is that your position, that those teams without Cory would have been historically awful?

 

[haak84]

You're using his first decline season in here also. 16-17 was his first poor year and it's calculated in this.

Use it for just 13-14 through 15-16 and it's gotta be higher than that. I'd bet he goes up to second on that list behind only Price.

Why?