My point is that right now the number of really great goaltenders in the league is very high. However, that can change over time.
Devils Team Discussion (team/player news and notes) 2015 offseason
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My point is that right now the number of really great goaltenders in the league is very high. However, that can change over time.
JimEIV
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- Feb 19, 2003
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Lou had an excellent opportunity and acted upon it.
You can argue the importance of goalie and you can argue the value of the 9th overall vs a goalie but you can't fault the GM for going out and filling a hole with the absolute best available. I don't have a problem with it at all. I have more of problem with Cory's contract extension than I do the trade.
I'm sure we can both admit that we can find examples that would support either theory. Jonathan Quick's two Cup winning regular seasons were very different. He was lights out in 2011-2012 and even replaced at times in 2013-2014. Just like some years an "offensive team" wins the Super Bowl and sometimes it's a "defensive team". There is no one right answer or way to go about it. Ironically one of the years the Flyers came closest was in 2010 when they probably had the worst goalies to ever play in the finals.
What we do agree on is that you need a great overall team around the goalie to win it.
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We would need another defenseman because our back end seems particularly injury prone and Hrabarenka will definitely be inconsistent if he is able to make the team.
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ya, Sev's with Greene, Lar's with Merrill. Not at all in on the Oduya or similar veteran thought. Not as a 2nd pairing d-man. relegating Merrill to 3rd pairing is not something I'm looking to do.
SpeakingOfTheDevils
Devils Advocate
i agree with you here. i think larsson is ready to have his "own" pair. we could see:
oduya-larsson
greene-sev
it wouldn't necessarily be a top pair vs a second pair, more like a 1a/1b type deal.
Without increasing the size of the goal, I see no way we see sub .900 save %'s as the norm.
Drewr15
Registered User
It isn't just style. Also remember most goalies by the mid 80's already were butterflyers. The stand up style had basically disappeared by 1985. The only guys I can remember using it later than that were Sean Burke, Kirk McLean and some kid named Brodeur.
It was later than that - the butterfly didn't even take off until Roy made it famous in 86. It was more like by the mid 90s you saw stand up fade out of the game as all the kids coming in were imitating Roy.
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how can anyone honestly have a problem with Cory's contract extension?
I rip Lou plenty but that was a great move.
I rip Lou plenty but that was a great move.
SpeakingOfTheDevils
Devils Advocate
agreed, not sure how you can like the trade but hate the extension. is the whole point of the transaction not to obtain, then retain, the targeted player?
ForeverJerseyGirl
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The extension was vital to making the trade a success in my opinion. If Lou hadn't been able to re-sign Cory, the trade would have been a bad move. As soon as Lou traded for Cory, in my opinion, he had to get Cory re-signed in order for me to consider the move a success. Since Lou re-signed Cory long term, the trade was a success in my opinion. Without that long term deal with Cory, I would be much more apt to agree the Cory trade was a mistake and not worth the ninth overall pick.
DiscoBall
Registered User
Same here...on the contract he's one of the most (Non-McEichel) valuable assets in the league.
I do wonder if his goaltending might hurt the rebuild...IE the team will be not good enough to make the playoffs, but good enough to keep us from drafting elite players.
SpeakingOfTheDevils
Devils Advocate
while this may be a valid concern, let me put it this way: i'd much rather start a rebuild by nailing down the goaltender position. which is what LL did.
with hrabaranka and helgeson making their cases for a spot next year, it's looking more and more like we'll be shipping out a defenseman (or two?) this summer. i'm not worried about the sort-of-immediate future at forward -- which is the last piece of the puzzle for us.
glenwo2
LINDY RUFF NEEDS VIAGRA!!
Don't let us stop you.
But come on now...Just because your viewpoints are being criticized, doesn't mean we don't respect them. And we are always here to talk hockey....NEW JERSEY DEVILS HOCKEY, that is.
And like you stated that you call it like you see it, so goes the same for NJDevs, myself, and everyone else here. It sparks debate which is what we do here.
SpeakingOfTheDevils
Devils Advocate
another good point.
without cory back there, we could be an edmonton gong show for all we know. with how many times cory's had to bail out our young guys this year, i wonder how much of a shot to their confidence it would've been if those misplays nearly always ended up in goals.
ForeverJerseyGirl
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We still should be able to draft high enough to get good players who can contribute to a team. Tanking doesn't lead to success as often as some people want to think. It worked for Chicago, but not for Edmonton so far. With Crosby and Malkin (two "generational" talents), Pittsburg only has one Cup, which many feel is underachieving. I just don't think one superstar is able to carry his team to the Cup as easily as some people want to believe. I'd rather build around a few good but not star forwards than one superstar forward.
The first butterfly goalie to really be successful was Tony Esposito with the Blackhawks back in 1969. Vanbiesbrouck was a butterfly style goalie and drafted 3 years before Roy. Ken Wregget was an '82 pick and played butterfly. Don Beaupre and Andy Moog were '80 draft picks who played it.
Roy really just made the butterfly style well-known. Goaltenders had already been shifting to it for years before that. By the mid '90's, the only stand up goalies in the league were Brodeur, Burke, McLean and Hextall.
JimEIV
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I don't think a 9th overall in meh draft is too much to pay for any established NHL player in any case...
I think paying a goalie 6 million a year in this league is just plain ol silly...
Think of it this way:
In Detriot Holland has always argued against over paying for Stay at home Dmen....Doesn't mean he doesn't have any on his team or they can't help or play a role...it just means he wouldn't PAY them a lot...And yet he traded Sebastien Piche and 2012 1st round pick for Kyle Quincy and back in the day he gave up a 2nd and a 3rd for Ulf Samuelsson. Holland thinks SAH Dman are marginal yet he has traded significant assets to fill holes and make runs in the playioffs with those very types of players... and when he is done with them he lets them walk, no big contract, he lets someone else do that...It is smart. I see goalies in a similar light to the way Holland sees Stay at Home Dmen
DiscoBall
Registered User
Please list the cup winners since 2003 without superstar/top 10 forwards.
JimEIV
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First define Superstar. You literally mean top 10 in the league the year they won the cup? Cause there are ton of examples....Or your arbitrary list who is top 10?
Zippy316
aka Zippo
Some people just don't realize how lucky the Devils have been to transition straight from Brodeur to Schneider.
I could imagine the outcry around here if we didn't have a good enough goalie to replace Brodeur. We would've been stuck watching Hiller or some other UFA goalie let in goals that an elite goalie typically saves. The 9th overall pick is nothing when you get the stability of Schneider in goal for 65+ games for multiple seasons.
I can only imagine how many assets we would've given up trying to get a good goalie here.
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