Devils Team Discussion (team/player news and notes) 2015 offseason
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Since the coaching change that didn't happen.
So who is Zubrus holding back by playing? Ryder/Havlat? Boucher is a borderline NHL player at the moment anyway.
He also was in the lineup most of the time since he was recalled. He can't sit up stairs and watch and learn that way? For all we know he's sitting next to one of assistant coaches who can point things out to him.
With this team, probably worse for those guys to be in the league on this team than not.
Since the coaching change that didn't happen.
So who is Zubrus holding back by playing? Ryder/Havlat? Boucher is a borderline NHL player at the moment anyway.
He also was in the lineup most of the time since he was recalled. He can't sit up stairs and watch and learn that way? For all we know he's sitting next to one of assistant coaches who can point things out to him.
With this team, probably worse for those guys to be in the league on this team than not.
NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
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That's the point though...why would you overplay marginal vets who you already know what they are over giving younger players some 'free' experience in games that don't matter? It's just very questionable personnel management.
Because Zubrus gave this organization a lot of hard minutes over what? 8 seasons? Let him play his career out. It's the right thing to do.
They didn't feel the same with Ryder and Havlat. They sat them for practically every game for two months.
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this is the problem with this organization. too much sentiment and rewarding guys for what they did years ago
Yeah, that's why they forced Marty out, that's why they forced Rolston, White, Volchenkov, Brylin, Hedberg, Shanahan, Pandolfo, Madden all out. They cut ties when they need too.
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I'm unclear on this discussion. Maybe Zubrus and Matteau are competing for the same spot, but no way Gionta and Boucher are competing for the same spot. Zubrus and Gionta also kill penalties.
If people are upset at Ruutu vs. Matteau - that makes sense. I'd even stick Boucher in place of Ruutu. But, there's not really another spot for those guys. Unfortunately, Matteau and Boucher are each left wings, so they need to replace:
Cammy, Henrique, Zubrus, Ruutu
Three of those guys kill penalties. Ruutu's the only one who doesn't. You could slot Henrique at center, but in place of who? Gomez, Elias, Zajac, JJ? Again, three of those guys kill penalties, and the other is our best offensive centerman.
Yeah, it's a crapfest, but Matteau and Boucher still need to rise above. It would be better if there was some talent on the right side, and it would be better if more players could play multiple roles (really - why do the Devils have so many bottom six players who cannot play PK? Bernier, Tootoo, Ruutu - add in Matteau, Boucher, Ryder and you've got an entire bottom six that can't be on the PK. That puts a huge strain on your top players - they need to excel EV, PP, and PK.). But, this is the reality of what Matteau and Boucher are walking into - it's a roster issue (IMO), not a time management one.
NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
- 67,424
- 31,750
Zubrus played what, 70 games this year? I hardly think playing him 65 would have made a difference. If you don't want to sit him then shut Gio down for the season instead of running him back for a couple games or sit Ruutu (who they clearly don't like anyway). There were options if they wanted to play the younger players and the ones who they DID have in the lineup like Josefson remained locked into a limited role.
When there's no pressure that's the best time to play younger players. Henrique playing the last game in 2011 opened eyes going into the next season
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Stephen Gionta averaged like 16:30 in March and April when the season was pretty much wrapped up
thats not 4th line minutes
*in before "BUT STEPHEN GIONTA ISN'T THE PROBLEM!!!"*
thats not 4th line minutes
*in before "BUT STEPHEN GIONTA ISN'T THE PROBLEM!!!"*
ForeverJerseyGirl
Registered User
I'd play Matteau over Ruutu next season. He can't be sent down to Albany next year without needing to clear waivers (which means the risk of losing him for free, and especially after what he's shown the past few games, I'd hate to do that), and he's hopefully part of the organization's future, unlike Ruutu. Ruutu didn't stand out to me much this year; at least with Matteau there is normally a feeling that he could score or create something. He just brings more energy to the lineup than Ruutu.
That being said, there definitely is an ice time management issue with this coaching staff. We continually send out forwards who showed glimpses of offensive potential back in like the Stone Age in must-score or PP situations over more offensively gifted alternatives. There's also no excuse for Gionta leading the forwards in ice time in the Florida game before Rico and Bernier took their penalties. There hadn't been that much time on the PK prior to that, and a few more offensively gifted forwards also kill penalties, so even if there had been a lot of penalties to kill, someone like Rico should have the lead in ice time. Our forward roster is not a very good toolkit, but Oates also seemed not to know which situations called for a screw driver and which a hammer (or else he was just confused about the difference between the two tools). Hopefully, the next Devils coach has a bit more of a clue. And I say this as someone who appreciates Gionta more than many on this board, but, for his own good and the team, he needs to take on a lesser, more niche role, not a leading the forwards in ice time one.
That being said, there definitely is an ice time management issue with this coaching staff. We continually send out forwards who showed glimpses of offensive potential back in like the Stone Age in must-score or PP situations over more offensively gifted alternatives. There's also no excuse for Gionta leading the forwards in ice time in the Florida game before Rico and Bernier took their penalties. There hadn't been that much time on the PK prior to that, and a few more offensively gifted forwards also kill penalties, so even if there had been a lot of penalties to kill, someone like Rico should have the lead in ice time. Our forward roster is not a very good toolkit, but Oates also seemed not to know which situations called for a screw driver and which a hammer (or else he was just confused about the difference between the two tools). Hopefully, the next Devils coach has a bit more of a clue. And I say this as someone who appreciates Gionta more than many on this board, but, for his own good and the team, he needs to take on a lesser, more niche role, not a leading the forwards in ice time one.
vtdevils2k
"Lets Go Baby!"
I don't think Ruutu is the issue. He is what he is..a 4th line player who you at LEAST notice when he's on the ice throwing his body around.
The player that needs to go is Zubrus. He does absolutely nothing for this team and its time to thank him for his service and either trade him, waive him, or send him to Albany.
The fact that Gionta and Zubrus even saw the ice over the kids just makes no sense.
The player that needs to go is Zubrus. He does absolutely nothing for this team and its time to thank him for his service and either trade him, waive him, or send him to Albany.
The fact that Gionta and Zubrus even saw the ice over the kids just makes no sense.
So you're suggesting the issue with the Devils is Gionta? In what way?
If these young guys were clearly ready to play as regulars, they'd be playing. The Devils are clearly looking to get Matteau and Boucher on the team, but there just going about it a very patient way. I would have liked to have seen Boucher and Matteau every game towards the end of the season, but I imagine the Devils were working with them off the ice as they watched the games. I doubt their development is being hurt and they don't produce enough for it to be an impact right now keeping them out of the lineup. There is nothing to complain about here.
These guys need to earn their spots as Henrique and a few of the young defensemen have.
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ForeverJerseyGirl
Registered User
I'm fine with Matteau playing for Zubrus and Zubrus being bought out over the summer or whatever. My response was just to the idea that Matteau shouldn't play over Zubrus because Zubrus does PK work. I'd rather play Matteau over Ruutu if taking Zubrus out of the lineup somehow isn't an option. Ruutu also doesn't kill penalties, but I thought he had less of an impact than Matteau. So Matteau should definitely take Ruutu's spot on the depth chart in my opinion.
Wingman77
Registered User
- Mar 16, 2010
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By pointing out what you think others will say, you are essentially acknowledging holes in your own point of view and acknowledging that there will be valid counter points of view, but you just don't want to look at the entire subject objectively.
With that out of the way, yes, why whine about 16 minutes of ice time - for a guy that played 16 games in March/April, 7 were under 16 minutes - from a guy who, yes, wasn't a problem?
Were a few guys getting more minutes than the should of in a few games towards the end of the year? Sure you could say that, but some of those guys getting bigger minutes were not among the more pressing problems. Most of the offense was filled with bottom 6 guys that couldn't score. We had one of the worst offensive seasons in franchise history. Pretty self-explanatory. Those big minutes to a couple of guys towards the end of the season are trivial in the outcome of this season.
It's like whining and stomping your feet about the wipers leaving streaks on your car window, but pushing to the side that the engine doesn't work.
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Lets Go Baby
we have a million guys that can play on the PK
Zajac, Elias, Henrique, Cammalleri, Josefson, etc.
thats not really an excuse to play the corpse of Zubrus nightly without fail.
Zajac, Elias, Henrique, Cammalleri, Josefson, etc.
thats not really an excuse to play the corpse of Zubrus nightly without fail.
Zippy316
aka Zippo
You will literally find everything and anything to complain about.
The season was ****ing over. We have no forward prospects pushing their way into the lineup.
Boucher and Matteaus roles do not at all cross over with Gionta. Would you rather Ryder play? Tootoo? Havlat? Ruutu?
Who gives a **** if it's any of those players and not Gionta. Gionta playing so much is just indicative of how bad this teams forwards group has got. We've seen where he fits on a strong competitive team (2012 playoffs). He's playing as much as he does cause it's better than throwing guys into the wolves who aren't ready.
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
Given how much success he's had in Winnipeg since the trade, I think they'll try to lock him up. They freaking love him there. But if he hits free agency, yeah, that's exactly what Lou is going to do.
From February:
ForeverJerseyGirl
Registered User
Mismanagement of player ice time isn't the biggest problem facing the Devils (the biggest problem is a massive void of talent in the top six, necessitating some bottom six players to be used in that role), but it does exacerbate the biggest problem that is a lack of talent in the top six when Gionta plays more minutes than guys like Cammy or Rico. It shows that even when the Devils have top six talent, the current coaching staff doesn't know how to utilize it properly. Properly used (as a depth forward/fourth line) Gionta isn't a problem; when he plays way more minutes than he should, he becomes a problem. Not the biggest problem facing the Devils, no, but more a symptom of the biggest problem made worse by ice time mismanagement.
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ForeverJerseyGirl
Registered User
Zippy316
aka Zippo
He played most of it on that shutdown line with Elias and Gionta.
For whatever reason, probably due to not being able to do it anymore, we stopped using our best line to drive play against other teams best lines. Instead, the Devils made a shutdown line of Zubrus-Elias-Gionta.
At one point, that shutdown line was Zubrus-Gionta-Harrold and it went up against Crosby.
That last statement just says it all about this team.
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