Devils Team Discussion (current team/player news and notes) ‎2014-2015 Part VIII

[MadDevil]

I'm starting to wish we'd bought Sal out instead of Volch. At least with Volch it wasn't the captain of the team getting coned every night.

 

[schoenfeld]

sal is putting the effort out, i just don't think he has it physically anymore to play at this level. he looks like matvichuk did near the end of his career.

 

[Tundra]

My gut feeling is that DeBoer doesn't survive the upcoming Western Canada trip. I don't think Lou wants to fire him but the momentum is building. It would strictly be a damage control move to take the heat off the architect of this disaster. But there is no way an accredited veteran coach would put his neck in this noose without certain long term guarantees. Any new coach would probably be an assistant or possibly from within the organization.

 

[OOOOIIIO]

Well, going to that game was the biggest waste of $79 Ive spent in a while. Was mind numbing to see the Devils get scored on in the manner they did and look over to the bench to see Pete emotionless on the bench.

 

[wellonegm05*]

The biggest issue is just the overall level on incompetence within the organization. Mediocrity is tolerated from the top down. You are thoroughly out to lunch if you see more than maybe 5 teams in the league that the Devils are better than. Buffalo, Florida, Carolina, and Arizona. With their speed I think even Edmonton smokes us.

I'm so tired of hearing the incompetence extent into our fan base as well. How many times I've had to put up with people telling me that just because we're "only x games in" that it shouldn't matter how bad we are. How our offense is ok because a few outlier games skew out overall averages. How the PK is "bound to average out". This team is terrible, no way around it. If you want to take solace in the fact that bc after 10 games we had a top 10 offense and were only "3 points out of 1st" so be it. Anyone objectively looking at this team knows where we stand. Just because games are close does not mean we are capable of beating the team we are playing against. The San Jose and Dallas games were perfect examples. Cool, the scoreboard says it was close. Anyone watching those games saw that we lose to those teams 4 times out of 5. The 3-0 start was a lucky break, what we've done since is much more indicative of where the teams stands.

 

[Tundra]

The biggest issue is just the overall level on incompetence within the organization. Mediocrity is tolerated from the top down. You are thoroughly out to lunch if you see more than maybe 5 teams in the league that the Devils are better than. Buffalo, Florida, Carolina, and Arizona. With their speed I think even Edmonton smokes us.

I'm so tired of hearing the incompetence extent into our fan base as well. How many times I've had to put up with people telling me that just because we're "only x games in" that it shouldn't matter how bad we are. How our offense is ok because a few outlier games skew out overall averages. How the PK is "bound to average out". This team is terrible, no way around it. If you want to take solace in the fact that bc after 10 games we had a top 10 offense and were only "3 points out of 1st" so be it. Anyone objectively looking at this team knows where we stand. Just because games are close does not mean we are capable of beating the team we are playing against. The San Jose and Dallas games were perfect examples. Cool, the scoreboard says it was close. Anyone watching those games saw that we lose to those teams 4 times out of 5. The 3-0 start was a lucky break, what we've done since is much more indicative of where the teams stands.

It's the normalcy bias that some devil fans have fallen prey to. They can't contemplate being a bottom feeder and it's happened for everyone to see. You could see the wheels starting to fall off last year. Yes, there are some positive things occurring but the negatives far outweigh the positive at this point. When you are being run ragged in the skating department nearly every night, I would say that the problems go far beyond the coach or lineups.

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

The biggest issue is just the overall level on incompetence within the organization. Mediocrity is tolerated from the top down. You are thoroughly out to lunch if you see more than maybe 5 teams in the league that the Devils are better than. Buffalo, Florida, Carolina, and Arizona. With their speed I think even Edmonton smokes us.

Exactly. With an addition that we dont have a plan. I dont mind being mediocre, if the plan is to rebuild and truly contend in 2-4 years. Seems to me, though, that the plan is to miss playoff by a thread every year, get the worst possible picks and setup for future. That's what eats me. Not the mediocrity part, the part that we dont seem to have a solid future. Resign Lou, you are old and out.

 

[wellonegm05*]

Our victory against Tampa was a perfect example of the false hope everybody gets. The Rags too. Having our goalie steal one shouldnt blind us to the fact that a team like Tampa runs thru us in 5 games if we play them in April. Losing 1-0 or 4-3 to St Louis doesnt mean we are really close to beating them. That team is better than us every day of the week. Managements biggest problem is the hindsite/revisionist history. Again, like last year with the whole "we were only a few shootout points from the playoffs" spiel. Going thru the games on the schedule and saying "Oh well if we had a few bounces go our way we would've beaten St Louis or Dallas", while theoretically true, shouldnt blindfold us into thinking we actually have a chance against teams like that on a night in and night out basis.

 

[Tundra]

Our victory against Tampa was a perfect example of the false hope everybody gets. The Rags too. Having our goalie steal one shouldnt blind us to the fact that a team like Tampa runs thru us in 5 games if we play them in April. Losing 1-0 or 4-3 to St Louis doesnt mean we are really close to beating them. That team is better than us every day of the week. Managements biggest problem is the hindsite/revisionist history. Again, like last year with the whole "we were only a few shootout points from the playoffs" spiel. Going thru the games on the schedule and saying "Oh well if we had a few bounces go our way we would've beaten St Louis or Dallas", while theoretically true, shouldnt blindfold us into thinking we actually have a chance against teams like that on a night in and night out basis.

It's sales propaganda largely. I think they must know that the team is deficient in many areas but can't openly say as much. It's one big charade to push tickets and generate false optimism to the lowbrow devils fan. Who in their right mind would ever pay to watch this at the given prices? And I don't have a problem with losing but at least lose with a purpose to a greater tomorrow. Wasting shifts on Zubrus and others is just mind-boggling in my estimation.

 

[wellonegm05*]

It's sales propaganda largely. I think they must know that the team is deficient in many areas but can't openly say as much. It's one big charade to push tickets and generate false optimism to the lowbrow devils fan. Who in their right mind would ever pay to watch this at the given prices? And I don't have a problem with losing but at least lose with a purpose to a greater tomorrow. Wasting shifts on Zubrus and others is just mind-boggling in my estimation.

This 100%. I am tired of people justifying the lineups and managerial decisions. I would rather be losing with our kids playing and be building towards the future than losing with Zubrus, Gionta, Bernier, Salvador, etc on the ice. I'd rather see Boucher, Matteau, Larsson, Gelinas, etc playing 15-20 minutes a night consistently with none of this in and out of the lineup/10 minutes a night bs. I mean Brunner is the perfect example of our managerial ineptness. He scored the same amount of goals, in half the games, playing on the 3rd line in Detroit as he has here. Yet people are comparing him to a mid 30's something Michael Ryder. Kid's 28 years old.

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

It's sales propaganda largely. I think they must know that the team is deficient in many areas but can't openly say as much. It's one big charade to push tickets and generate false optimism to the lowbrow devils fan. Who in their right mind would ever pay to watch this at the given prices? And I don't have a problem with losing but at least lose with a purpose to a greater tomorrow. Wasting shifts on Zubrus and others is just mind-boggling in my estimation.

Exactly what I said. I agree 100%.

 

[Eric Sachs]

At the end of the day.. while I disagree with a TON of the decisions that Pete/Lou have made over the past few years.. I understand a lot of them. I get why they like Gionta. I get why they are hard on certain youngsters. I don't agree with it nor like it.. but I get it.

But for the life of me.. I just can't get how in the world they see anything but an AHL defensemen in Salvador. You don't like stats? Fine.. throw out the fact that he's been on the ice for more than half of our goals against. Just use the eye test.. and it's quite apparent he doesn't belong.

And I would get it if they wanted him on the roster for other reasons.. but to play him 18+ minutes a game? To let him play 2 full minutes on the PK (league's worst PK, mind you)?

There is absolutely no justification behind that. It's just plain stupidity.

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

At the end of the day.. while I disagree with a TON of the decisions that Pete/Lou have made over the past few years.. I understand a lot of them. I get why they like Gionta. I get why they are hard on certain youngsters. I don't agree with it nor like it.. but I get it.

But for the life of me.. I just can't get how in the world they see anything but an AHL defensemen in Salvador. You don't like stats? Fine.. throw out the fact that he's been on the ice for more than half of our goals against. Just use the eye test.. and it's quite apparent he doesn't belong.

And I would get it if they wanted him on the roster for other reasons.. but to play him 18+ minutes a game? To let him play 2 full minutes on the PK (league's worst PK, mind you)?

There is absolutely no justification behind that. It's just plain stupidity.

And yet we have n+1 amount of posters on this board saying that coach isnt playing on ice, it's the players. New coach wouldnt change anything.

 

[MadDevil]

At the end of the day.. while I disagree with a TON of the decisions that Pete/Lou have made over the past few years.. I understand a lot of them. I get why they like Gionta. I get why they are hard on certain youngsters. I don't agree with it nor like it.. but I get it.

But for the life of me.. I just can't get how in the world they see anything but an AHL defensemen in Salvador. You don't like stats? Fine.. throw out the fact that he's been on the ice for more than half of our goals against. Just use the eye test.. and it's quite apparent he doesn't belong.

And I would get it if they wanted him on the roster for other reasons.. but to play him 18+ minutes a game? To let him play 2 full minutes on the PK (league's worst PK, mind you)?

There is absolutely no justification behind that. It's just plain stupidity.

It's that letter on his chest and Pete not wanting to risk a mutiny. Which I can kind of understand. Even through all our losing the players (especially the vets) have all pretty much had Pete's back. I don't think he wants to risk losing the players by sitting a well liked and respected player. The problem is, by doing so he's continuing to play a guy who is a liability, which hurts the team's chances of winning, which will ultimately cost him his job.

The sad thing is, even if we bench Sal, I'm not sure it really fixes all that much. Yes he gets taken advantage of on the PK, but we still leave guys wide open and give them way too much time and space. Which I think is more a result of strategy than anything else. Why we've decided to change a PK strategy that worked fine last year I still don't understand. I don't know if it's Pete's idea or Foligno's, but somebody needs to realize it sucks.

It also doesn't change the fact that our forwards are old, slow, and mostly incapable of playing the roles we're asking them to. Elias looks like he's hit the wall, and he has to play with guys like Ruutu and Zubrus, who aren't exactly known for their skill. Ryder is Ryder. Good one game, invisible the next. Brunner is just a waste of a roster spot at this point. Yeah it's great he can skate fast, but he has the IQ of a fence post. I'm not going to complain about guys like Gionta, Tootoo, Bernier, etc. They're all bottom six guys who we shouldn't be expecting much from to begin with.

 

[Eric Sachs]

It's that letter on his chest and Pete not wanting to risk a mutiny. Which I can kind of understand. Even through all our losing the players (especially the vets) have all pretty much had Pete's back. I don't think he wants to risk losing the players by sitting a well liked and respected player. The problem is, by doing so he's continuing to play a guy who is a liability, which hurts the team's chances of winning, which will ultimately cost him his job.

The sad thing is, even if we bench Sal, I'm not sure it really fixes all that much. Yes he gets taken advantage of on the PK, but we still leave guys wide open and give them way too much time and space. Which I think is more a result of strategy than anything else. Why we've decided to change a PK strategy that worked fine last year I still don't understand. I don't know if it's Pete's idea or Foligno's, but somebody needs to realize it sucks.

It also doesn't change the fact that our forwards are old, slow, and mostly incapable of playing the roles we're asking them to. Elias looks like he's hit the wall, and he has to play with guys like Ruutu and Zubrus, who aren't exactly known for their skill. Ryder is Ryder. Good one game, invisible the next. Brunner is just a waste of a roster spot at this point. Yeah it's great he can skate fast, but he has the IQ of a fence post. I'm not going to complain about guys like Gionta, Tootoo, Bernier, etc. They're all bottom six guys who we shouldn't be expecting much from to begin with.

You have a guy who is on ice for more than 50% of the goals we give up.

How do you not pin a disproportionate amount of blame on a guy with such a disproportionate stat?

Will we suddenly start dominating everyone we play? No.. but we will certainly be significantly improved.

Our forwards have been fine. We've always been a team that struggles to score two goals a night.. and that's not been the problem this year. It's the defense and the PK. There's a common denominator there.

 

[MadDevil]

You have a guy who is on ice for more than 50% of the goals we give up.

How do you not pin a disproportionate amount of blame on a guy with such a disproportionate stat?

Will we suddenly start dominating everyone we play? No.. but we will certainly be significantly improved.

Our forwards have been fine. We've always been a team that struggles to score two goals a night.. and that's not been the problem this year. It's the defense and the PK. There's a common denominator there.

That's fair. Although knowing the way things have gone the last few years, we'd probably fix the defense and PK and then the offense and PP would go in the toilet.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

What coaches aren't employed right now?

Wilson
Dineen
Boucher
Bylsma

Edit: Christ, even Torts and the Crow would be welcomed in my eyes

Hell, bring back Ftorek.

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

I find it amusing that this board calls Edmonton's organization a dumbster fire. I can feel the heat in ours already, we arent that much better organized. Well, pretty much as ****** but without 4 st rounders or so.

 

[Marv4Life]

They're the mirror image of the Oilers except in a bizzaro world way. They have a potentially elite offense but everything else sucks. We have a potentially elite defense yet everything else sucks.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

I wouldn't mind getting some of top picks the Oilers got over the few years, like this year. I guarantee we won't become the Oilers, not with the young defenseman we have in place. Just need some solid forwards. McDavid we be a fantastic beginning.

 

[tailfins]

It's sales propaganda largely. I think they must know that the team is deficient in many areas but can't openly say as much. It's one big charade to push tickets and generate false optimism to the lowbrow devils fan. Who in their right mind would ever pay to watch this at the given prices? And I don't have a problem with losing but at least lose with a purpose to a greater tomorrow. Wasting shifts on Zubrus and others is just mind-boggling in my estimation.

This is ridiculous. Of course you and others have a problem with losing. And rightly so. No one likes to watch a losing team, because losing teams look disorganized, purposeless, and mentally fragile. There are very few lovable losers.

We currently are losing with a purpose toward tomorrow. People are complaining about Salvador - but the fastest way to have solved that problem would have been to trade for Boychuk or to have signed someone like Gorges so we could have a veteran that would reduce Sal's minutes. That, of course, would have meant demoting Severson or Merrill, or getting rid of Larsson or Gelinas. Instead, the Devils are trying to give the kids minutes. Larsson was directly responsible for two goals last night: first with a silly penalty after he couldn't handle Marchand down low, then when he made a high-risk, low-reward pass to Gelinas. But there's no sense that the Devils are in the market for a veteran d-man ASAP. You can argue that ice time distribution should be shifted in specific situations, but broadly, you can't say that we're playing vets and keeping kids on the bench / in the minors.

Despite the growth of Josefson and Severson, and to a lesser extent, of Gelinas and Larssson, people act as if this Devils team has no future. Why? Because we're not winning right now. I'm happy that people are upset. Who wants to watch a loser? I'm just sad that people believe the answer is more losing (talk about accepting mediocrity), or knee jerk moves (fire everyone!).

The reality is, if Lou and Pete stay, and the Devils lose their next 68 in regulation, you'll have seen a successful tank job. Yet, no one here will have felt good about it. Welcome to the rebuild.

 

[tailfins]

I wouldn't mind getting some of top picks the Oilers got over the few years, like this year. I guarantee we won't become the Oilers, not with the young defenseman we have in place. Just need some solid forwards. McDavid we be a fantastic beginning.

The problem with the Oilers is poor management resulting in lack of direction and a culture of losing. The smart way out was years ago - having better management that didn't accept losing. The other way out is hoping their young stars can pull them through. Very few kids can do that. It happened in LA and Chicago, but not so much anywhere else.

The reason the Devils won't become the Oilers is that the Devils have better management. There's no indication that the Devils' prospects will be better than the Oilers', so it's not talent or potential that separates the two teams (at least not in the Devils favor). Therefore, it has to be management. So, if you want to tank because you believe the Devils won't be the Oilers, you'd better believe we have better management. Otherwise, that tank job will come with a lot more pain than you're expecting.

 

[njdevil26]

If I have to hear the term "did some good things" one more time I'll flip. It's the catch phrase to hide the fact that a certain player or the team lost again and played poorly.

 

[Devils Trap]

I dont think ive ever tuned out of so many games like I have this year...

Countless numbers of times I just cant be asked to watch this team and Salvador play 20 minutes per game when he ****ing sucks.. I just dont understand how someone who is on the ice for 54% of all goals scored against us can continue to play.. This is not a coincidence and Im at the point that I dont care at what people think. Boo the **** out of him (and Pete pls)

"You guys keep talking about fatigue...we've only played 14 games."
No Morning Skate.....

No words

 

[njdevil26]

Seriously zero reason for Sal to play over 18 minutes and Larsson play 12.