GDT: Devils @ Rangers, 7 PM

[Satans Hockey]

Too many people have unrealistic expectations of Henrique. He is what he is and his stats aren't much different then any other year so far.

 

[Devils090]

Even with his 30 goals last year Henrique routinely disappeared for games at a time

 

[Bleedred]

But it's arguable Lou could have gotten very good, sometimes great without giving up a #9.

I don't think it is arguable that Lou could have gotten very good or something great without giving up that pick, at least not at the goaltending position.

Let's just think back to who was available at that time and who has been available and moved since then.

We could have traded a 2nd and some junk for Bishop a few months before trading the 9th overall for Cory. Bishop has been almost as good as Cory the past few years, but he's also having a below average season so far, just like Cory is.

We could have traded a 2nd round pick and some junk for Jon Bernier, about a week before we made the Cory trade. But he flopped in Toronto as their starter after one really awesome year and now he's a good backup at best.

Khudobin was a UFA a few days after we traded for Cory. He had a one hit wonder season as Carolina's starter and was very good in 13-14, before being relegated to a backup, then the starter for Anaheim's AHL team, now Boston's backup and he isn't very good.

We could have signed Halak in free agency or traded for his rights like the Islanders did in the 2014 offseason. Only, Halak was not as good as Cory, hasn't been as good as Cory in the last few years and is playing just as bad as Cory is this year.

2nd round pick for Talbot? He's not better than Cory.

Whatever Carolina traded for Eddie Lack Of Goaltending? He hasn't even been a worth a few of those Lacko Tacos they advertise.

2nd round pick for Brian Elliott? Seemed good when it was made, but he's been ****ing atrocious and currently sitting on the bench, while a career backup has straight up mugged him of his starter job and played astronomically better than him.

Or a 1st round pick for one of the bevy of goalies traded in the last two summers. They weren't as high of picks as what we got Cory for but they all cost a first round pick and none of them are as good as Cory. At least not when you aren't counting this year. Martin Jones, Robin Lehner, Frederik Andersen. Rather have Cory at #9th overall than any of them at a later first round pick.

We couldn't have done any better on a goalie for 9th overall. We would have had better luck signing a UFA career backup like Greiss or Johnson and hoped for the best. You weren't getting a goaltender for less than 9th overall that was of Cory's caliber or would have been able to give us what Cory gave us for his first 3 years here.

 

[Bleedred]

So it's worth giving up a #9 pick (in the middle of what should be a rebuild) and paying a goalie 5 mil a year to win a few extra extra games while still missing the playoffs, thereby resulting in worse picks at the draft each of those years, in a league where multiple teams are seeing success with supposedly average goalies?

We weren't exactly in a rebuild when we traded that pick though....

Sure you can argue that we SHOULD have been by then, but we weren't really in a rebuild then.

 

[MadDevil]

We can't go back and redo that trade so I don't know why people are harping on it. Plus I don't seem to recall this discussion happening last year when Cory was a top 3 goaltender. He hits a rough patch (when the entire team not named Hall, Cammalleri or Zajac has played terribly) and this comes up again.

We know he can, and will, be better. Might as well just get behind the guy and hope he turns it around soon.

 

[Bleedred]

We can't go back and redo that trade so I don't know why people are harping on it. Plus I don't seem to recall this discussion happening last year when Cory was a top 3 goaltender. He hits a rough patch (when the entire team not named Hall, Cammalleri or Zajac has played terribly) and this comes up again.

We know he can, and will, be better. Might as well just get behind the guy and hope he turns it around soon.

I remember when he struggled early in 14-15 and people regretted not just signing Halak or trading for him instead.

Because Halak is such a great goaltender. He hasn't been better than Cory in any of the years that Cory's been here and he's been just as bad as him this year. They're both below 91% on the season. We could have acquired some junk for cheaper. Bishop is the only one that has proved to be good and was acquired for cheaper than Cory and whaddya know, he's right down there with Cory and Halak this year also.

If you wanna argue that we should have used that pick to draft a player, I guess that's fine. Although was anyone really great available?

 

[Bleedred]

Horvat or Domi would have been pretty cool, but it's not like they're game breakers.

The one guy that everyone wanted just packed it up and shipped out to the KHL this season.

And I remember someone using the name ''Lazar'' when listing the names of 2013 first rounders that we could have had instead of Cory not too long ago. Curtis Lazar is a BUST and I've been saying it for 2 years now. I fail to believe or even understand why this player has been any better than Jacob Josefson so far. He's produced offense at a clip of 2 more points per 82 games than Josefson has in his career. His claim to fame was eating a nasty hamburger off the ice that some fan threw from the stands.

 

[MadDevil]

I remember when he struggled early in 14-15 and people regretted not just signing Halak or trading for him instead.

Because Halak is such a great goaltender. He hasn't been better than Cory in any of the years that Cory's been here and he's been just as bad as him this year. They're both below 91% on the season. We could have acquired some junk for cheaper. Bishop is the only one that has proved to be good and was acquired for cheaper than Cory and whaddya know, he's right down there with Cory and Halak this year also.

If you wanna argue that we should have used that pick to draft a player, I guess that's fine. Although was anyone really great available?

Horvat, Domi, Wennberg, Burakovsky would have all been potential options, but considering Conte was still here who the hell knows what we would have done.

 

[Devils090]

Cory was the sole reason we weren't Oilers bad the last few years so while I agree that he's playing poorly and needs to greatly improve I'll cut him a lot more slack than Henrique or Palmieri

 

[Emperoreddy]

All recent cup contenders have had a stable net minder. Last year was the one odd year with Murray over MAF.

LA has Quick. Chicago has Crawford. Rags have Henry.

Finding and developing your own top goalie is a crap shoot. When you feel certain you can get one you pull the trigger.

 

[Devils090]

All recent cup contenders have had a stable net minder. Last year was the one odd year with Murray over MAF.

LA has Quick. Chicago has Crawford. Rags have Henry.

Finding and developing your own top goalie is a crap shoot. When you feel certain you can get one you pull the trigger.

And teams with a little instability in net(Blues, Stars) never get over the bump.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

Are we really talking about not to trading for Schneider? How could anyone find their form behind the team defense in front of him. I can't blame Schneider for that defense in front of him and group of forwards who make it worse for the defense by not getting back and just not knowing what to do in the defensive zone. It's either Cory gets no goal support or no help defensivly. Would love to see what he could do with an average offense and defense, just for one season. This team is way too bi-polar. I literally feel bad for Cory such a great guy who hasn't been given the proper chance to succeed.

 

[Bleedred]

All recent cup contenders have had a stable net minder. Last year was the one odd year with Murray over MAF.

LA has Quick. Chicago has Crawford. Rags have Henry.

Finding and developing your own top goalie is a crap shoot. When you feel certain you can get one you pull the trigger.

I think MAF and Niemi are probably the only cup winning goalies since the lockout. Osgood was average but was very good in the playoffs and had 2 cups as a starter, a decade apart. He was clutch, if there is a such thing as clutch. MAF and Niemi are probably the most mediocre cup winning starters since 1990. Ward too, although he deserved the Conn Smythe that year and had some good seasons later on. But he doesn't really stack up with any of the others since 1990.

And teams with a little instability in net(Blues, Stars) never get over the bump.

And their goalies have been worse than Cory this year, on a team that's not quite as bad defensively. Despite them having this reputation for being poor defensively. Lehtonen has been done for almost 3 years now, he was good back when Dallas was an awful team with pathetic defense.

And those teams go out early, due to their ****** goaltender. Stars were completely sunk last year due to their goaltending.

Jake Allen was one of the Sharks best players in game 5 of last year's WCF.

 

[Bleedred]

I think I might count goal 1 on Cory as stoppable, if not because he looked to be mostly in position. Not a terrible goal and not really his fault but I think stoppable. I counted one of those Kinkaid as stoppable last year.

That and goal 5 in garbage time on the power play. Went through him and laid in the crease for an easy tap in. Just watched some of the highlights. Palmieri getting his leg grabbed from some hand from under the ice was so bad on the shorthanded goal. That was laughable and summed up this game.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

McDavid, Matthews/Laine. We can't even suck in the right year. One regulation win in 12 games. Embarrassed in the last 3. It's just not most of the players being bad at the same time the coaching staff needs to take the blame as well.

 

[John Pedro]

McDavid, Matthews/Laine. We can't even suck in the right year. One regulation win in 12 games. Embarrassed in the last 3. It's just not most of the players being bad at the same time the coaching staff needs to take the blame as well.

they won't even suck badly this year. gonna finish bottom 15 and end up with a crap 13th overall pick.

this team needs to follow the Leafs and do a complete rebuild. Keep Hall and Schneider, trade everyone else. Zajac and Henrique must be the worst top6 C duo in the league by a large margin.

4 straight years without playoffs and they still don't have a single prospect who looks like a sure-fire top line talent.

 

[MadDevil]

Hall and Schneider are probably the only two trade pieces we have that would return enough to really rebuild with though. Do you really think we're getting great returns on guys like Zajac, Cammalleri, and Greene?

 

[BurntToast]

Where the Heck is Lemaire, bc we need him. Total team failure. Obviously Palms falling was pretty bad, but once again we had a similar situation where the Devils have two guys low and Severson is covering the crease and the Rangers skated around DSP like he was a pylon. Maybe the people cherpping about systematic issues are correct. The annoncers even noticed our passive penalty kills. Is this team burnout in December? Everything was up shots, hits, blocks, possession and now the team is sinking even below last years totals except penalties taken of course.

 

[John Pedro]

Hall and Schneider are probably the only two trade pieces we have that would return enough to really rebuild with though. Do you really think we're getting great returns on guys like Zajac, Cammalleri, and Greene?

Cammalleri and Greene could both be very useful for a contender. Especially Greene as he's a good top pairing guy who doesn't miss games. They could get a 1st + good prospect for him... look at Sekera return when he was a Cane and got traded to the Kings (1st round pick + Roland McKeown). And Sekera was a rental while Greene is signed long term with a team friendly cap hit.

A team like Dallas could really use him. 1st + Guryanov wouldn't be an unrealistic return, especially if the Devils eat some of Greene's salary or take a cap dump back.

they need to do something cause since Parise left, this franchise is stuck in mediocrity.

 

[tailfins]

Where the Heck is Lemaire, bc we need him. Total team failure. Obviously Palms falling was pretty bad, but once again we had a similar situation where the Devils have two guys low and Severson is covering the crease and the Rangers skated around DSP like he was a pylon. Maybe the people cherpping about systematic issues are correct. The annoncers even noticed our passive penalty kills. Is this team burnout in December? Everything was up shots, hits, blocks, possession and now the team is sinking even below last years totals except penalties taken of course.

Shuffled off to Toronto with Lou.

Sad what's happened to the management of this franchise.

Feels like the team is totally directionless. A bunch of mercenaries - no identity.

As someone else said, it feels like the previous culture has been totally wiped away. From how the team looks (beards) to how the team interacts (social media), to how the team plays (fire wagon) to how the team approaches its rivals (that's the energy for a Rangers game?).

This isn't on Greene or Hall. It's on ownership or Shero. Lou set a direction and created a culture that went through the entire organization. I'm shocked that so much of it was discarded. Creating a culture is one of the hardest things to do. If you're going to wipe away the past, you better be prepared to implement something new.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Shuffled off to Toronto with Lou.

Sad what's happened to the management of this franchise.

Feels like the team is totally directionless. A bunch of mercenaries - no identity.

As someone else said, it feels like the previous culture has been totally wiped away. From how the team looks (beards) to how the team interacts (social media), to how the team plays (fire wagon) to how the team approaches its rivals (that's the energy for a Rangers game?).

This isn't on Greene or Hall. It's on ownership or Shero. Lou set a direction and created a culture that went through the entire organization. I'm shocked that so much of it was discarded. Creating a culture is one of the hardest things to do. If you're going to wipe away the past, you better be prepared to implement something new.

The Lou stuff needs to stop. I guess we quickly forget how awful this organization got under his watch. From the Ryder/Clowe teams that were impossible to watch, to horrendous drafting and insane moves like trading for Tuomo Ruutu when your team is 5+ points out of the playoffs in March.

The current team is getting awful goaltending from their most important player and abysmal performances from their other top guys (Henrique, Palmieri, Greene, etc). This is not on Shero and it has nothing to do with beards or "identity." The guy that does need to start being questioned though is Hynes. The lack of puck possession, continuously being outshot, and poor positioning is directly on him.

 

[NJDevs26]

We weren't exactly in a rebuild when we traded that pick though....

Sure you can argue that we SHOULD have been by then, but we weren't really in a rebuild then.

Yeah you can't really second-guess the Cory trade when the mentality was completely different four years ago. The thought (at least from me) was that Cory could help the young defense mature and they could use the cap space they would eventually have to get forwards. So far the young defense really didn't pan out and other than Camm and Palm in 2015-16 they couldn't get a real forward upgrade until trading Larsson for Hall.

And yeah god forbid we used the pick on the KHL player who everyone wanted that didn't pan out.

 

[tailfins]

The Lou stuff needs to stop. I guess we quickly forget how awful this organization got under his watch. From the Ryder/Clowe teams that were impossible to watch, to horrendous drafting and insane moves like trading for Tuomo Ruutu when your team is 5+ points out of the playoffs in March.

The current team is getting awful goaltending from their most important player and abysmal performances from their other top guys (Henrique, Palmieri, Greene, etc). This is not on Shero and it has nothing to do with beards or "identity." The guy that does need to start being questioned though is Hynes. The lack of puck possession, continuously being outshot, and poor positioning is directly on him.

Fine. Pin it on Hynes. But, Shero is the guy who hired Hynes. Shero's also the guy who owns this current roster. Perhaps Shero has assembled a reasonable group and it's just Hynes' execution that's the problem?

However we can get back to seeing a team that plays together - I'm good. While you can cite lots of negative about the end of Lou's tenure, it really wasn't until the out of control spiral that led to DeBoer's firing that things fell apart. And this current stretch feels a lot like that DeBoer stretch. That led to DeBoer and Lou getting canned.

(Btw - the Tuomo Ruutu trade is a weird example of Lou screw-ups. Especially when there were a lot to choose from: not forfeiting the Matteau pick, Chatham vs. Point, Kovy vs. Parise, the Marty vs. Cory debacle, and all the other stuff that gets rehashed here repeatedly.)

 

[CerebralGenesis]

only argument you can make for not trading for cory is that we would have tanked the last few years and MAYBE made a play for McDavid/Eichel or something. We would then need a goalie still or be buffalo, although that might not be a bad thing depending on how this year plays out.