GDT: Devils @ Rangers, 7 PM

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

Can we please stop with this after the fact ******** when Cory has done everything possible to help this team for most of the time he's been here? He's had like a 9 game stretch here where he's struggled. Henrique disappears for 20+ game stretches. How about we keep a little perspective here?

And he's struggling behind a team playing what's likely the worst defense in the league right now.

 

[MadDevil]

That makes no sense. He needs to be a top 3 goalie because that's what we traded a #9 pick for. If he's not going to be a difference maker then we should have kept the pick and used a stop gap tender in the meantime. That's exactly my point.

If you don't think he's been a difference maker for this team since coming here, I really just don't know what to say.

 

[Tundra]

The calls for trading Rico are just as ridiculous. His career shows he is a much better player then this. I don't know what is going on, but fan's throwing him to the curb like this is just as overblown.

He's playing out of position as well due to depth issues.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Can we please stop with this after the fact ******** when Cory has done everything possible to help this team for most of the time he's been here? He's had like a 9 game stretch here where he's struggled. Henrique disappears for 20+ game stretches. How about we keep a little perspective here?

Looking at Cory in isolation yes you can say he's not the problem. But think of the context. We gave up a #9 pick and he's being paid five million a year. That's a lot to give up for a goalie in today's NHL, for that price he has to be a difference maker in terms of wins/losses and four years in I'm not totally convinced that's what we have.

As far as Henrique, aside from a a magical year that saw this team overachieve its way to the finals, he's been a core piece of a losing product while not showing himself to be anything particularly special in terms of individual play. I would have zero problem with Shero trading him while his value is still high, provided of course that it's a shrewd exchange.

 

[Emperoreddy]

He's playing out of position as well due to depth issues.

IDK. He had his two best seasons playing center. I'm not convinced he is a better winger, but he is just playing poorly (or is hiding an injury).

Either way trading him isn't the answer.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

The calls for trading Rico are just as ridiculous. His career shows he is a much better player then this. I don't know what is going on, but fan's throwing him to the curb like this is just as overblown.

The calls to trade him are not ridiculous. The team needs defense. He is the most expendable given how he is slow, can't pass well enough, especially as a supposed second line / first line center and is entirely way too streaky for his slow skating and poor passing to be overlooked.

Also, no, it isn't overblown. I want a smooth skating defenseman that is capable of two way play, above average or elite. I do not want a slow streaky poor passing center that shows zero effort when he isn't scoring.

Might as well trade him while he has some value.

 

[MadDevil]

Looking at Cory in isolation yes you can say he's not the problem. But think of the context. We gave up a #9 pick and he's being paid five million a year. That's a lot to give up for a goalie in today's NHL, for that price he has to be a difference maker in terms of wins/losses and four years in I'm not totally convinced that's what we have.

As far as Henrique, aside from a a magical year that saw this team overachieve its way to the finals, he's been a core piece of a losing product while not showing himself to be anything particularly special in terms of individual play. I would have zero problem with Shero trading him while his value is still high, provided of course that it's a shrewd exchange.

So he's nothing special yet is going to somehow return a better player?

 

[Emperoreddy]

The calls to trade him are not ridiculous. The team needs defense. He is the most expendable given how he is slow, can't pass well enough, especially as a supposed second line / first line center and is entirely way too streaky for his slow skating and poor passing to be overlooked.

Also, no, it isn't overblown. I want a smooth skating defenseman that is capable of two way play, above average or elite. I do not want a slow streaky poor passing center that shows zero effort when he isn't scoring.

Might as well trade him while he has some value.

This makes no sense on so many levels. So you want to trade one of our better producing forward over the past few years, who is also young and on a good contract, while remembering this is a team that was dead last in goals for last year and is still bottom 15 this year and falling. Who is playing center for this team when you trade him? Zacha hasn't proven anything yet. McLeod is still in juniors. JJ is the definition of a black hole.

You also basically claim he is a useless slug, but also expect to somehow get a better Dman in return. That isn't how trades work.

Your post makes no sense.

 

[guitarguyvic]

If you don't think he's been a difference maker for this team since coming here, I really just don't know what to say.

a difference maker is someone who significantly alters a teams win loss record. See: Montreal without price last year. Can we honestly say Cory fits that bill? We've been bottom 10 in the league with this "elite" goaltender every year he's been here. how much worse could this team really have been with an average stop gap goalie...seriously? And again, in context, if this team would have been worse perhaps that's actually a better outcome long term as we would have picked up several higher draft picks in that time, rather than giving up a #9 and paying him 5 mil a year to waste away on a non-playoff team.

The irony of people defending shero's attempt thus far to make this team more in the mold of the "new NHL" while also defending the price we paid for an "elite" goalie is...interesting. Most of the recent teams having playoff success are using "one hit wonder" goalies.

Mind you I have defended Cory vehemently on these boards ever since we got him. And I'm still not blaming him for this team's inability to be successful, per se. I'm just no longer blindly accepting the idea that he was worth what we gave up.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The worst part about losing is it brings the absolute worst aspects of this fanbase out into the open.

 

[guitarguyvic]

So he's nothing special yet is going to somehow return a better player?

I added the qualifier that it would have to be a shrewd exchange to make sense. Which is possible...he may very well be overvalued by other organizations, at least for now. If we continue waiting his value is surely to keep decreasing.

 

[guitarguyvic]

The worst part about losing is it brings the absolute worst aspects of this fanbase out into the open.

Don't lump me in with that crowd. I've been plenty calm and rational in my opinions about how this team is being built, and I've called out fans for being negative and ridiculous in their assessments many a time over the last few years. I've just reached the point now where I think it's justified to question certain things/players. The counter arguments are really not as strong as I once thought.

 

[Bleedred]

a difference maker is someone who significantly alters a teams win loss record. See: Montreal without price last year. Can we honestly say Cory fits that bill? We've been bottom 10 in the league with this "elite" goaltender every year he's been here. how much worse could this team really have been with an average stop gap goalie...seriously?

So bad, we probably see Shero standing up there Chevy and Shanny at the draft lottery, hoping to win Matthews.

Now without naming any names, I know there's quite a few people who are gushing at the thought of that.

But thank #35 that we weren't at the very best a bottom 5-6 team last year. Hynes knowing how to coach defense also had a big part in that, since Cory didn't have to face a zillion shots per game. So we probably wouldn't have been as bad as Toronto, Columbus, Buffalo, Edmonton, maybe Winnipeg either, if we had just an average goalie. If we had a bad one, we would probably have been worse than half the team I mentioned.

And don't forgot how Kinkaid played last year, he was brutal all season long. I think he's already had as many good games this year as he had all of last year. Wedgewood getting called up and doing his best Hasek impression in 4 games masked how bad Kinkaid was last year when Cory was injured.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

This makes no sense on so many levels. So you want to trade one of our better producing forward over the past few years, who is also young and on a good contract, while remembering this is a team that was dead last in goals for last year and is still bottom 15 this year and falling. Who is playing center for this team when you trade him? Zacha hasn't proven anything yet. McLeod is still in juniors. JJ is the definition of a black hole.

You also basically claim he is a useless slug, but also expect to somehow get a better Dman in return. That isn't how trades work.

Your post makes no sense.

What do you want to do? Just hold on to an extremely slow poor passing extremely streaky player just because he produced some points and goals a couple of times on bad teams?

What is he doing for the team now, not a last season or a few seasons ago, what is he currently doing for the team right now that helps the team?

The team also needs defense. Something has to give. They have to make some sort of move and address one of their biggest issues, the biggest issue is defense. All Henrique's scoring / point production means nothing if they can't stop the puck going in. He certainly isn't helping in the defensive end either this year so.

Some GM's may think like you, think about his past seasons, he's only 26 and on a good contract (only if he produces). Add a draft pick in there, you could fetch something. They aren't going to know unless they try.

 

[guitarguyvic]

So bad, we probably see Shero standing up there Chevy and Shanny at the draft lottery, hoping to win Matthews.

Now without naming any names, I know there's quite a few people who are gushing at the thought of that.

But thank #35 that we weren't at the very best a bottom 5-6 team last year. Hynes knowing how to coach defense also had a big part in that, since Cory didn't have to face a zillion shots per game.

And don't forgot how Kinkaid played last year, he was brutal all season long. I think he's already had as many good games this year as he had all of last year. Wedgewood getting called up and doing his best Hasek impression in 4 games masked how bad Kinkaid was last year when Cory was injured.

So it's worth giving up a #9 pick (in the middle of what should be a rebuild) and paying a goalie 5 mil a year to win a few extra extra games while still missing the playoffs, thereby resulting in worse picks at the draft each of those years, in a league where multiple teams are seeing success with supposedly average goalies?

 

[Kurt Cobain]

I'd rather lose than see them try to bore people to death '2 to 1' with gimmicks. This season and the next are throwaways. It's time to take inventory and develop players as opposed to locking it down for false hope.

I think that's a fine position to have. At least you understand that if we wanna play younger players who are still developing it's gonna be at the expense of the team winning. This is not a team that can develop so many guys upfront with such little defensive ability and still make the playoff.

I however would rather play to win and develop slowly. So when people complain about not winning but are not willing do what it's gonna take to win this year it annoys me. We could and would win more playing less skilled and slower players who are more effective defensively and that's really our only option. I'd still want to play and develop Zacha but I'd also rather play Josefson and sign Elias. To play over guys like Kalinin and Bennett who aren't a big part of the future even if there less exciting. Putting more players in the lineup who have better defensive ability is the only way we'll win more this season. I don't want to be the oilers or Sabres and I've loved the fact that we have gotten more skilled and younger while always playing to win just in the last few seasons. I mean it's not like we have missed the playoffs by a large amount every year since we're usually on the better end of teams that miss the playoffs. The fact we've still upgraded the prospect pool, got younger, more skilled, more offensive while doing it the opposite of everyone else makes me proud. Some of these teams with a bunch of top 3 picks recently are still not ahead of us.

We can make the change and develop but the day this team intentionally ices a lesser team just for development puposes we have officially gotten away from what made this different than all the others. We have always gone left while everyone else goes right. We'd lose what I've appreciate most about this organization

 

[Chessarmy]

So it's worth giving up a #9 pick (in the middle of what should be a rebuild) and paying a goalie 5 mil a year to win a few extra extra games while still missing the playoffs, thereby resulting in worse picks at the draft each of those years, in a league where multiple teams are seeing success with supposedly average goalies?

I don't think you should be roasted for saying this. It's okay to question whether or not the transaction was worth it given we're in year four of the Schneider era and the team has accomplished nothing.

Of course, he's had garbage in front of him since arriving here but when you give up a #9 you expect a difference maker who can carry teams that otherwise wouldn't achieve certain things, like a playoff birth.

I think Schneider, other than a few shaky stretches here and there, has been largely very good, sometimes great with the Devils.

But it's arguable Lou could have gotten very good, sometimes great without giving up a #9.

 

[tr83]

The calls for trading Rico are just as ridiculous. His career shows he is a much better player then this. I don't know what is going on, but fan's throwing him to the curb like this is just as overblown.

Are they?

We have seen this team quit on multiple occasions since the days of JMac.

There have been 5 coaches since that train wreck ended 5 years ago: Jacques, DeBoer, Oates and Stevens, and Hynes. The team quit on 2 of them. They couldn't quit on Jacques because he's a HOF player and coach. That team played their heart out for him. You don't quit on Stevens and it helped that Lou was standing there. This team didn't show up for the first period in Nashville, quit against Montreal, and they quit tonight.

There are three guys left since all that went down. Henrique, Greene, and Zajac. Two of these guys don't quit and we know who they are. The third guy has disappeared for incredibly long stretches.

I get sick of the excuses made for Henrique. Oh, scorers go through streaks. Yes, maybe for a dozen games or so and then go "cold" for another dozen. Henrique disappeared for 30 games last year. He hasn't appeared at all this year. Maybe 30 goals was an aberration. He's on pace for what, 15? Not enough. Not with his shooting ability. He needs to shoot more especially with a fantastic playmaker on his wing. Hall should be taking some of the stress off of him but the result is the opposite.

I want to see Henrique play with anger. When he's fired up is when he's at his best.

 

[Emperoreddy]

What do you want to do? Just hold on to an extremely slow poor passing extremely streaky player just because he produced some points and goals a couple of times on bad teams?

What is he doing for the team now, not a last season or a few seasons ago, what is he currently doing for the team right now that helps the team?

The team also needs defense. Something has to give. They have to make some sort of move and address one of their biggest issues, the biggest issue is defense. All Henrique's scoring / point production means nothing if they can't stop the puck going in. He certainly isn't helping in the defensive end either this year so.

Some GM's may think like you, think about his past seasons, he's only 26 and on a good contract (only if he produces). Add a draft pick in there, you could fetch something. They aren't going to know unless they try.

That is because other GMs are smart and wouldn't throw away players during cold streaks.

GMs that do that don't have jobs for very long.

 

[Chessarmy]

Hall-Henrique could've been our new Parise-Zajac

 

[Emperoreddy]

Hall-Henrique could've been our new Parise-Zajac

It has been 30 games since the trade.

People are acting like he died lol though it is equally ridiculous to assume two guys who haven't played together since juniors would haven instant chemistry.

 

[MadDevil]

Hall-Henrique could've been our new Parise-Zajac

And who knows, maybe it still can be if Rico gets his **** together.

We're all upset right now. It's easy to say trade this guy and trade that guy, but this team is still building itself back up to be a playoff team. Just go back and go look at the team we finished with under Hydra. The majority of that team is gone. We've since added two young(ish) top 6 forwards when this entire board was crying for just that. And now people are wanting to trade one of the few top 6 forwards with a decent amount of years left in them because he's played like crap for 30 games? Should we just trade Greene too since he hasn't looked as good? How about Cory? This isn't NHL 17 people.

 

[Emperoreddy]

And who knows, maybe it still can be if Rico gets his **** together.

We're all upset right now. It's easy to say trade this guy and trade that guy, but this team is still building itself back up to be a playoff team. Just go back and go look at the team we finished with under Hydra. The majority of that team is gone. We've since added two young(ish) top 6 forwards when this entire board was crying for just that. And now people are wanting to trade one of the few top 6 forwards with a decent amount of years left in them because he's played like crap for 30 games? Should we just trade Greene too since he hasn't looked as good? How about Cory? This isn't NHL 17 people.

You mean I can't con Edmonton into trading McDavid to us for Greene?

 

[MadDevil]

You mean I can't con Edmonton into trading McDavid to us for Greene?

Maybe if we threw in Josefson...

I mean sure, maybe there's some GM out there dumb enough to give us an under 27-28 year old 60-70 point #1 center in exchange for Henrique, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Maybe if we threw in Josefson...

I mean sure, maybe there's some GM out there dumb enough to give us an under 27-28 year old 60-70 point #1 center in exchange for Henrique, but I'm not holding my breath.

Nah. GM will give us a future Norris winner.

No what we would actually get is futures and maybe another Moore or Merrill at best. We wouldn't get another Lars or Severson.