Devils or Rangers: Who has the better future?

[JT Kreider]

because you neglected it, but just because you're adding in Goodrow Blais and Reaves doesn't mean it becomes fixed 1-2-3. you need them to mesh in with the rangers play. If those three are slacking early in the year, then they're screwed.

So if the Rangers 4th line slacks off, we are screwed?

Not if our best center gets COVID a week before the season and labors through the first half of the year and can't go a full night without being caught on MSG cameras on the verge of collapsing on the bench?

Or what if our best player is the victim of a political hit job and is forced to leave the team for a month?

Those are things that would actually screw us. Oh, wait.

 

[DialUp]

So if the Rangers 4th line slacks off, we are screwed?

Not if our best center gets COVID a week before the season and labors through the first half of the year and can't go a full night without being caught on MSG cameras on the verge of collapsing on the bench?

Or what if our best player is the victim of a political hit job and is forced to leave the team for a month?

Those are things that would actually screw us. Oh, wait.

Dude, it's pointless. Rangers can threepeat but the narrative will be "how they didn't set themselves up for the future post cups, ergo, suck."

 

[PensandCaps]

I'd say Devils because they have the two #1Cs for a decade

 

[Oneiro]

If you look at every single forward drafted since 2017, Pettersson is arguably the only top 25 forward and he hasn't even broken 80 pts. It's generous to call him a top 25 forward.

What does that tell you about the league? For whatever reason, younger forwards are taking more time to make a real impact. I expect all four of Hischier, Hughes, Kakko and Lafreniere to be much better than they've been. I'd also argue that Hynes and Quinn were terrible coaches as well but that's generally a weak argument from anybody.

I also don't think that EP, Makar or Heiskanen put up the same numbers in NJ. And it'll be interesting to see what Wright and Bedard end up doing.

 

[goonybird]

All current data? What data are you using? Is it that he has a higher point total or points per game than Kakko, Dach, and one or two others you may be counting (Cozens, Zegras, Byram). Thats not all measures, but if you are content with his disappointing start because some others have been less bad (in your opinion), I guess there's nothing here to discuss further on that. You clearly are too deeply entrenched in defending Hughes to rationally assess this.

Besides, I didn't shift the goalposts. You inserted yourself in this discussion, and don't seem to understand what was being discussed. I didn't say anywhere that its proven Hughes is the wrong pick and I didn't suggest a better pick. You are completely obfuscating the larger discussion to ask who has been better. Why does it matter if someone is better? The Devils don't gain success that way. If you get the first pick and you have to argue others were less bad, you've lost already.

You realize you can't draft players from other draft classes first overall right? So if he's the best in his draft class, and he is, then he's a good 1OA pick.

what a struggle to explain something so obvious. I don't even know where to begin because I just assumed it was a given

Is he? I think there would be many answers over who should be 1OA now. When he was drafted the consensus was that Hughes was the 1OA with very little competition from anyone.

Hughes isn’t off to a great start. Devils got many advantages in their rebuild that teams would love to have, and they’ve squandered them so far.

You've said or implied several times that the Devils picked the wrong guy by 'squandering' the pick or said 'there's many options for 1OA'.

And yet, he's still playing better hockey than everyone else in that draft class. The only one who seems close is Zegras who had 44 pt vs Hughes' 45 pt pace, but yet you are calling him a failed 1OA already.

And before you get your back hair up, yea you never said "Jack Hughes is a failed 1OA" but we all know what you're saying and we're not interested in shovelling another 500 words of semantic arguing crap out of the way to get to the same point at the end of the struggle.

 

[PaulD]

Rangers without a doubt

 

[Cheddabombs]

The team I cheer for

 

[FlyTimmo]

Neither lol

 

[Blueblood2]

I would like the Ranger's situation a lot more if Zib wasn't likely to walk for nothing in the summer, and you didn't have Kreider or Goodrow. Trouba likely isn't going anywhere as it would be bad business for the Rags to move him so soon.

I'm high on Kakko/Laf - I think K'andre will be special, Fox is great (and about to get paid for it) ... but even with 13m in cap space, when you consider that Fox is probably going to get 8-9, Zib will be looking for a 3-4m raise, Kakko is due for his bridge, Laf will be 1yr from bridge ... there won't be a lot of money around, and what happens if your young wingers don't want a bridge and want a 7/8yr?

Best bet for the Rags at this point is to all-in on Eichel and try to win while you have a good pool of ELC players.

What information do you have that makes you think Zibby is going to walk in the summer for nothing? or is this just your hope?

You do realize that the only player that the Rangers really need to sign with this years $13.6M cap number is Shesterkin....right? If you are going to talk about contracts that will be starting in future years at least reference the right cap number for that year.

Kakko and Laf will get bridge deals which will not blow any cap out of the water. They cant demand $7/8M a year as RFA's. It doesnt work like that and they wont have the numbers to justify that for a couple of years anyway.

I think Eichel is a bad idea unless Buffalo takes on salary and doesnt want more than Kakko. Otherwise good luck with his neck Buffalo. There are other UFA C coming due very soon.

 

[Blueblood2]

I'd say Devils because they have the two #1Cs for a decade

Neither have produced like #1 C yet...I have more faith in Nico in the LT.

 

[MitchMurphy]

Devils

 

[PensandCaps]

Neither have produced like #1 C yet...I have more faith in Nico in the LT.

Well, You can just tell with Hughes. He's can't miss once he gains a bit of weight.

 

[dalewood12]

Rangers. I can see them winning a cup in 3 to 5 years.

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

Well, You can just tell with Hughes. He's can't miss once he gains a bit of weight.

He looked flat out dominant at the start of the season after gaining 14 lbs during the long break. He definitely lost a bunch of it when he got COVID though.

 

[Mackiaveli]

What information do you have that makes you think Zibby is going to walk in the summer for nothing? or is this just your hope?

You do realize that the only player that the Rangers really need to sign with this years $13.6M cap number is Shesterkin....right? If you are going to talk about contracts that will be starting in future years at least reference the right cap number for that year.

Kakko and Laf will get bridge deals which will not blow any cap out of the water. They cant demand $7/8M a year as RFA's. It doesnt work like that and they wont have the numbers to justify that for a couple of years anyway.

I think Eichel is a bad idea unless Buffalo takes on salary and doesnt want more than Kakko. Otherwise good luck with his neck Buffalo. There are other UFA C coming due very soon.

Let's say that they give Shesterkin 6m ... they will have roughly 18-20m in space at the end of this season. Strome is for sure gone in this scenario, but Fox's 925,000 is going up to 9m, and you will have to give Blais, Kravtsov and Kakko their RFA deals. Let's assume they all get modest bridges and come in somewhere around 6m total (I suspect it will be higher but I'll lend to your argument) that means that they are going to spend about 15m. Even if they had 22m in cap space, 7m is probably not enough to get Mika, and even if it were, you have to consider Chytil, Laf and Miller are all going to be due for their next contracts the following summer and they have less than 5 million in cap expiring and an extra 3.5ish from their retained contracts/buyouts expiring.

Reasonably speaking, the Rangers if they are competing at the TDL will add rentals with their cap space. If they are not, I suspect Mika and Strome will both get moved due to the upcoming cap crunch. Unfortunately, having Panarin at 11.6, Trouba at 8, and and a 10 million dollar third line is going to cause cap issues for the Rags.

Matthews, Marner, Eichel, Petey, Laine, Nylander, Hischier and many other high performing, top picks, are getting big contracts right out of their entry deal. Yes, it is feasible that Laf and Kakko bridge, especially Kakko who has been relatively underwhelming thus far, but if Laf has a good season and then pots 60 or 70 the following year, there's no chance he is seeking a bridge deal. It is nice to imagine a world where all of your star prospects take bridge deals, but the NHL at large suggests that is not going to happen (Makar contract, wait and see Hughes/Petey with big deals too) ... budgeting 20m for Fox/Laf/Kakko's next deals is probably pretty generous (see above scenario)

If I am the Rangers, I am trying to keep Laf and Kakko and offering something like Kreider/Miller/Schneider/Chytil/2022 1st for Eichel 10-25% retained and going all in this year. You have the space and the assets to go all-in, and you have an impending cap crunch coming (this is the issue with running a rebuild and a retool in the same three years). I think the Rags are stuck with Trouba and Panarin (the latter is not really 'stuck') because using that allure of New York to draw in free agents to then flip them before the halfway point of their contract is a bad look and might prevent them from getting other FAs in the future. Flip Strome somewhere for another defenseman, and trade for a 3C.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So if he's the best in his draft class, and he is, then he's a good 1OA pick.

I significantly disagree with this point. I think it misunderstands the point of drafting players.

You've said or implied several times that the Devils picked the wrong guy by 'squandering' the pick or said 'there's many options for 1OA'.

And yet, he's still playing better hockey than everyone else in that draft class. The only one who seems close is Zegras who had 44 pt vs Hughes' 45 pt pace, but yet you are calling him a failed 1OA already.

And before you get your back hair up, yea you never said "Jack Hughes is a failed 1OA" but we all know what you're saying and we're not interested in shovelling another 500 words of semantic arguing crap out of the way to get to the same point at the end of the struggle.

I love this tactic. If you can't back up what you've suggested, you add in the word imply, as if that changes the circumstances completely. What I've said is plainly clear. You admitted so yourself. It doesn't need defending or explaining any further.

 

[goonybird]

I significantly disagree with this point. I think it misunderstands the point of drafting players.



I love this tactic. If you can't back up what you've suggested, you add in the word imply, as if that changes the circumstances completely. What I've said is plainly clear. You admitted so yourself. It doesn't need defending or explaining any further.

You're right they should've drafted a better player than Hughes like McDavid or even Panarin. Can't believe they instead took the best guy from 2019 instead of a better guy from another draft year

Can't believe they got such a crappy first overall when they could've got a better one apparently. I mean, clearly you don't take the best guy from his draft with the pick, you've gotta take one from another one.

How could i be so stupid?! That's the whole "point of drafting players"!!!

Lol this conversation is going to give me early onset dementia

 

[kerrabria]

Just want to see some opinions. As a devils fan, I’m really optimistic about the teams future and want to see how others think we line up with our rivals say 3-5 years from now.

I would take the Rangers for 3 years from now, but I actually think I'd take the Devils if asked to speculate 5 years from now.

 

[TGWL]

I should have known this thread was going to end up being a back-n-forth with the one poster from our fanbase who just disagrees with everyone, including our own fanbase.

 

[MtoD]

I should have known this thread was going to end up being a back-n-forth with the one poster from our fanbase who just disagrees with everyone, including our own fanbase.

He's spinning himself into circles that he can't keep straight, it's pretty fun to watch.

I gotta say, arguing that the best player in a draft isn't a good 1OA for that class is a pretty dumbfounding thing to say so that surprised me. I'm hoping we get another thesis out of this explaining that you can take more advantage of a 1OA pick by somehow not picking the best player in the draft.

 

[goonybird]

He's spinning himself into circles that he can't keep straight, it's pretty fun to watch.

I gotta say, arguing that the best player in a draft isn't a good 1OA for that class is a pretty dumbfounding thing to say so that surprised me. I'm hoping we get another thesis out of this explaining that you can take more advantage of a 1OA pick by somehow not picking the best player in the draft.

Trading it for an established player maybe, but that only works in hindsight and even still may end up being a terrible idea.

 

[Puckclektr]

I’m a devils fan. I really like what NJ is building. That being said with what the rangers have currently, there havent been to many teams in my lifetime with prospects and a young team like this.
Rangers.

 

[ElLeetch]

Who are the players that will lead each team’s future?

Centre? Jersey might be better
D? Jersey
Goal? Rangers
Wing? Rangers

you must be high. which team has the 23 year old Norris winner??

 

[NickyFotiu]

Up until a few weeks ago I might've said Rangers, but seeing Drury in action as GM has me feeling pretty good about NJ's chances.

Having a top defenseman to match up against Fox was a glaring hole for NJ which they've seemingly solved with Hamilton. Having Luke Hughes in the mix also helps a ton. Rangers still need to find a long-term solution for their issues at center. I give NJ a slight advantage.

I'm a Rangers fan who has liked Drurys moves. We were obviously tissue paper soft. That is not going to win. He took care of that weakness. The only downside is losing Buch but hard to blame Drury because of cap reasons. Plus he got a second plus a 4th line guy that will hit and also score some. If Drury can get a good center then I will give him a very high grade. Right now he is a B minus.

 

[RememberTheName]

If the Rangers can get a 1C of the future long term, them. They're going to be hit with a cap crunch in not too long that's going to make it tough, but I'd like to see what they're able to do. If they can't, the Devils.