Devils or Rangers: Who has the better future?

[BPD]

holtz, mercer, foote, bratt, sharangovich all solid to great pieces for the future + tons of cap space for a potential trade. fitzgerald been active for a top 6 winger.

I think the problem is that when you put them next to each other you've got....

Panarin - MVP caliber guy
Kakko - Selke analytics darling/one of the best in the NHL at creating off the forecheck (seriously. you'd never know it watching him, but the numbers are there)
Lafreniere - Killer potential
Kravtsov
Kreider
Chytil (he's not a center unless he figures faceoffs out)
Othmann
etc
etc

We have such a depth "problem" on the wings that Buchnevich was expendable. That...is serious depth.

The Rangers' wing depth is endless and high pedigree. The Devils have Bratt - who looks legit. Holtz, who should be good. Sharangovich - who came out of nowhere - and then a lot of question marks.

In a vacuum, which Devils wing are you taking over any of the Rangers wings listed? Maybe Holtz over Kreider/Kravtsov, I guess - and even that's a bit of a question mark.

edit - I'll caveat that the Devils have the most solvable problem of the two teams as wing depth is probably the easiest thing to fix, whereas the Rangers center depth issue is going to rear its ugly head without a bigger move in the not-too-distant future.

 

[HBK27]

How is Jersey’s defense better in any way? Going forward and now it’s Rangers not even close.

Fox, Trouba, Miller, Lindgren, Lundkvist, Schneider, Jones, Robertson, Reunanen

vs

Hamilton, Smith, Hughes, Severson, Walsh, Bahl, Vukojevic, Misyul.

Best defenseman and depth goes to the Rangers

Fox vs. Miller is comparable - certainly an advantage to the reigning Norris winner, but Hamilton is also a top 10 defenseman

Trouba vs. Severson are also comparables, though I'd give the advantage to Severson (especially if you factor in cap hits).

Miller vs. Smith are comparables, though Smith gets the edge (which Calder voters agreed with).

Luke Hughes probably has the highest ceiling out of all the prospects, but is still just 17 years old - long term, I'd put him up against Lindgren or Lundvist, but we won't know on that one for a few years.

You forgot to include Mukhamadullin for NJ, who is a comparable to Schneider given he was selected one spot later in the draft a year ago.

Bahl, Walsh, Okhotyuk (who you also missed), Vukojevic, Misyul & McCarthy are all solid defense prospects in the pipeline for NJ.

I'd hardly say it's not even close and there's an argument to be made for NJ.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Drury's start does not look promising but maybe he learns from his mistakes?

So far, I would lean Devils

 

[MartyOwns]

edit - I'll caveat that the Devils have the most solvable problem of the two teams as wing depth is probably the easiest thing to fix, whereas the Rangers center depth issue is going to rear its ugly head without a bigger move in the not-too-distant future.

excellent point. i'm ok with not having a ton of winger depth (although we do, especially at RW). i would much prefer center and defense. especially defense- it is almost impossible to acquire a top pairing defenseman any way other than the draft, when the guy is still 2 years away from playing) or by overpaying in a trade. they very rarely make it to market, with hamilton being the exception that proves the rule and gives me a rager in my front parts.

i think the rangers have the stronger defensive prospect pool, but the devils are right behind them. i will say that goddamn, i really wanted miller and i'm pissed he fell to you guys. anyway, there should be some amazing rivalry games over the next few years.

 

[Zacha37]

I think the problem is that when you put them next to each other you've got....

Panarin - MVP caliber guy
Kakko - Selke analytics darling/one of the best in the NHL at creating off the forecheck (seriously. you'd never know it watching him, but the numbers are there)
Lafreniere - Killer potential
Kravtsov
Kreider
Chytil (he's not a center unless he figures faceoffs out)
Othmann
etc
etc

We have such a depth "problem" on the wings that Buchnevich was expendable. That...is serious depth.

The Rangers' wing depth is endless and high pedigree. The Devils have Bratt - who looks legit. Holtz, who should be good. Sharangovich - who came out of nowhere - and then a lot of question marks.

In a vacuum, which Devils wing are you taking over any of the Rangers wings listed? Maybe Holtz over Kreider/Kravtsov, I guess - and even that's a bit of a question mark.

edit - I'll caveat that the Devils have the most solvable problem of the two teams as wing depth is probably the easiest thing to fix, whereas the Rangers center depth issue is going to rear its ugly head without a bigger move in the not-too-distant future.

great point. obviously the rangers have high end depth, but people seem to pretty much be writing off the devils forward prospects when it’s starting to shape up to be a fairly strong group.

 

[BPD]

great point. obviously the rangers have high end depth, but people seem to pretty much be writing off the devils forward prospects when it’s starting to shape up to be a fairly strong group.

Yeah - it's just one of those things that's not near as concrete as the Rangers. It SHOULD be a strong group, whereas the Rangers have a good deal more certainty there. I also know the analytics folks do not like Mercer, there's a good deal of "okay, really, where the hell did this Sharangovich dude come from and is he the real deal" here, etc, etc. I like Bratt. I like Holtz. I just can't in good conscience sit here and call the two groups equal or really, all that close when the Rangers have four high end players 21 or younger and a perennial MVP candidate and Kreider and more coming.

 

[BPD]

excellent point. i'm ok with not having a ton of winger depth (although we do, especially at RW). i would much prefer center and defense. especially defense- it is almost impossible to acquire a top pairing defenseman any way other than the draft, when the guy is still 2 years away from playing) or by overpaying in a trade. they very rarely make it to market, with hamilton being the exception that proves the rule and gives me a rager in my front parts.

i think the rangers have the stronger defensive prospect pool, but the devils are right behind them. i will say that goddamn, i really wanted miller and i'm pissed he fell to you guys. anyway, there should be some amazing rivalry games over the next few years.

The Rangers have made a bit of a habit of trying to jump the Devils to pick defenders. I'm 100% convinced you all did not want to take Mukhamadullin there and panicked. He's coming along well enough though - not really sure you're all that upset in hindsight.

I like what the Devils are doing. Hamilton was a massive add, Holtz should add scoring you don't have right now, the center depth is rock solid, the D depth is coming nicely w/Hughes. I think the Rangers have had the luxury of calling the teardown and building well around it in a way the Devils didn't (looked like teardown, then Hall dragged you all kicking and screaming into the playoffs, then trying to double-down on that...it's been less of a "no, f*** it, we're blowing it up" thing). So when we look at the Rangers, we're seeing prospects further in the pipeline - and successful ones at that. Our Hartford D will be something like Schneider, Jones, Robertson, Skinner, Reunanen, Hajek (or whatever); that's insane depth. There are few teams where "lefty Adam Fox" Zac Jones and "WHL Defenseman of the year" Braden Schneider aren't literally in pen on the NHL lineup - they won't crack ours.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Seeing a lot of talk about Drury's "questionable moves." And I'm not sure what that really refers to. We can argue about the value he got in the Buch trade, but that move was made as much for the Rangers as it was for what he got back. The Rangers moved a player who they likely would not have been able to sign long-term. But Buch is also a player who the Rangers have internal candidates to fill his role—players who need more ice time (Kakko and Kravtsov).

What he has also done is try to improve weak spots—the bottom six. With top 6 talent already on the roster, he made moves and basically replaced marginal NHL players likeBlackwell and DiGiuseppe with Blais, Goodrow and Reaves. And while the Wilson incident might have exposed the weaknesses in the Ranger roster, I don't believe these moves were made because of the Wilson incident. I believe they would have been made even if Davidson and Gorton were here.

The bottom line: Drury is making moves to build teams that can win more games in more ways.

 

[Stuzchuk]

Centres & Defense; I'd go with NJ
Wings and Goaltending; NYR

 

[TGWL]

This is really a guessing game. I'm a NYR fan, but this team has a tendency to make more moves, good or bad, the organization just can't help themselves. Predicting where NYR will be in 2-3 years is a crapshoot because we don't really know who stays and who goes. We've got a lot of prospects without a lot of space to fit them in the line-up. So when ranking defense, prospects or future based on our roster/pipeline, they're not all going to last and be apart of our future.

If NYR re-sign Zibanejad for the rumor 10 million and Fox gets close or on par with Makar, NYR are going to find themselves in trouble, especially if Laf or Kakko take off. Having your young players succeed is typically a good problem to have, but that also means players have to go to fit that cap, so it's tough to predict where NYR will be in the future. NJ have Hamilton signed to a big contract, but they've got at least 4 years before having to worry about Luke Hughes if he lights it up. (Min 1 year college. 3 ELC years). Jack Hughes is due for a contract after this season and I have a feeling that's not going to break the bank yet for NJ. So while I think NYR have some of the better prospects and players, they could find themselves in some trouble while NJ has a lot of available cap and available slots for their prospects.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Centres & Defense; I'd go with NJ
Wings and Goaltending; NYR

Not sure NJ gets the edge on defense.

 

[HBK27]

The Rangers have made a bit of a habit of trying to jump the Devils to pick defenders. I'm 100% convinced you all did not want to take Mukhamadullin there and panicked. He's coming along well enough though - not really sure you're all that upset in hindsight.

GM's and scouting staffs don't just panic at the draft. They spent hundreds of hours preparing for the draft and one pick is not going to throw them off. Not to mention the Devils also had the 18th pick and could've easily taken Schneider then if he was that valuable to them - thankfully they took Mercer.

Fitzgerald was also very adamant that the Rangers did not scoop the Devils with the Schneider pick:

What Tom Fitzgerald's first-round curveballs mean for the Devils

There are a couple of factors to consider with the Devils’ choice. First, considering how NHL draft experts ranked Schneider, is that Rangers GM Jeff Gorton swooped in front of Fitzgerald and snatched the player New Jersey expected to take. Fitzgerald emphatically denied that.

“No, not at all,” he said. “Nope. Not at all.”

The second is why the Devils did not move down from No. 20 to collect more assets and still take Mukhamadullin? Fitzgerald said the trade market was “very quiet” Tuesday night. Calgary traded its pick twice, moving from No. 19 to 22 and then to 24 before taking Connor Zary. The Capitals moved up two spots to No. 22 to select Mercer’s teammate, Hendrix Lapierre.

 

[Mackiaveli]

Sure and just go ahead and add Quinn Hughes to the Rangers and they have one of the best defensive corps too

Sure but Hamilton > Trouba, L.Hughes > Schneider and Ty Smith > K'andre Miller so idk - also Rangers probably could not give up the pieces for Quinn without hurting their team, whereas NJ absolutely can part ways with a blue chip like Holtz or Mercer and add a draft pick.

In a way, this is saying the Rangers window is closed (if not already) by next years TDL due to future cap issues AND the Devils will be actual cup contenders with a canyon of cap space by 2023?

I don't think the Rangers window is closed - I expect they will compete this year, especially if Kakko/Lafreniere take the next step; Panarin and Zib are both phenomenal players, Fox is looking like a perennial Norris contender, and their goaltending is nothing to scoff at --- HOWEVER --- I believe that you will see them run into a few issues over the next 2-3 years unless they are able to move some bigger contracts (Kreider/Trouba being the two that come to mind). We already have seen a cap casualty with Buchnevich, and I suspect Strome and Zibanejad are next, with no C's in the pipeline.

Jersey has 21m with Subban's 9 still on the books ... if Blackwood gets 6, Hughes gets 8, Wood/Bratt/Zacha/Smith combine for 16m, then you still have some wiggle room. That's with no players taking any discounts, or getting any bridge deals. Andreas's 3.4 and Severson's 4.1 can be moved for picks/cheaper replacement players, and the Devils could easily add a top UFA again next season (Gaudreau comes to mind as he's from Jersey) without having to worry about their future cap structure. If they want to go all-in on rentals next year, they should still have a ton of breathing room with the cap so I definitely have Jersey on my radar as a team to surprise in 2022-2023. Their big question mark will be Blackwood and whether or not he can be an elite goaltender; if he steps up, and they get good numbers out of the guys infront of him, they have the picks, the prospects and the cap space to make a splash.

Also, to answer your question, in the event they move some combo of Wood/Bratt/Zacha and replace them with ELC guys, and they can convince Jack to take a Hischier deal, they would indeed have a canyon of cap space by 2023.

 

[Night Shift]

Pretty sure the Pens won't be top 5 anymore in a couple years..

Most likely, we are not blind to that fact. The prospect pool is small. Not many draft picks ect..

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I think the Rangers have a larger collection of high-end pieces, but I do have the most faith in Jack Hughes. I would still be inclined to say the Rangers, but Drury doesn't really inspire any confidence.

even if Hughes becomes a 100 point player, which is unlikely, that still wouldn't mean that the Devils will be more successful. McDavid and Drasiaitl are both better than Hughes will ever be and the Oilers still stink. People get so wrapped up in MUH CENTERZZZ like its the only thing that matters in hockey.

 

[bossram]

even if Hughes becomes a 100 point player, which is unlikely, that still wouldn't mean that the Devils will be more successful. McDavid and Drasiaitl are both better than Hughes will ever be and the Oilers still stink. People get so wrapped up in MUH CENTERZZZ like its the only thing that matters in hockey.

I literally do not understand where this is coming from considering I literally said "I would still be inclined to say the Rangers". I think they have a better collection of pieces for building a future contender, despite me believing that Jack Hughes will be the best player out of all of them.

 

[BPD]

GM's and scouting staffs don't just panic at the draft. They spent hundreds of hours preparing for the draft and one pick is not going to throw them off. Not to mention the Devils also had the 18th pick and could've easily taken Schneider then if he was that valuable to them - thankfully they took Mercer.

Fitzgerald was also very adamant that the Rangers did not scoop the Devils with the Schneider pick:

What Tom Fitzgerald's first-round curveballs mean for the Devils

There are a couple of factors to consider with the Devils’ choice. First, considering how NHL draft experts ranked Schneider, is that Rangers GM Jeff Gorton swooped in front of Fitzgerald and snatched the player New Jersey expected to take. Fitzgerald emphatically denied that.

“No, not at all,” he said. “Nope. Not at all.”

The second is why the Devils did not move down from No. 20 to collect more assets and still take Mukhamadullin? Fitzgerald said the trade market was “very quiet” Tuesday night. Calgary traded its pick twice, moving from No. 19 to 22 and then to 24 before taking Connor Zary. The Capitals moved up two spots to No. 22 to select Mercer’s teammate, Hendrix Lapierre.

No GM is ever going to say they did not intend to pick the player they picked. It makes them look bad and it makes the player feel shitty.

Panic may not be the best choice of word - I think they went to the next defender on the list. I don't think it was a poor pick at all, but I do believe they wanted Schneider and thought there was no way Calgary takes him.

 

[MartyOwns]

GM's and scouting staffs don't just panic at the draft. They spent hundreds of hours preparing for the draft and one pick is not going to throw them off. Not to mention the Devils also had the 18th pick and could've easily taken Schneider then if he was that valuable to them - thankfully they took Mercer.

Fitzgerald was also very adamant that the Rangers did not scoop the Devils with the Schneider pick:

What Tom Fitzgerald's first-round curveballs mean for the Devils

There are a couple of factors to consider with the Devils’ choice. First, considering how NHL draft experts ranked Schneider, is that Rangers GM Jeff Gorton swooped in front of Fitzgerald and snatched the player New Jersey expected to take. Fitzgerald emphatically denied that.

“No, not at all,” he said. “Nope. Not at all.”

The second is why the Devils did not move down from No. 20 to collect more assets and still take Mukhamadullin? Fitzgerald said the trade market was “very quiet” Tuesday night. Calgary traded its pick twice, moving from No. 19 to 22 and then to 24 before taking Connor Zary. The Capitals moved up two spots to No. 22 to select Mercer’s teammate, Hendrix Lapierre.

eh...nobody knows for sure, but i think we were targeting schneider. but i'm sure the devils were prepared for that scenario and had no problems taking the muk man instead.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

No GM is ever going to say they did not intend to pick the player they picked. It makes them look bad and it makes the player feel shitty.

Panic may not be the best choice of word - I think they went to the next defender on the list. I don't think it was a poor pick at all, but I do believe they wanted Schneider and thought there was no way Calgary takes him.

Who knows where they had Schneider on their list though. They could have had him going way lower and already had back up options planned.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

90% of the Rangers fans are pleased with what direction this team is being taken atm.

I’m not sure this is accurate. I think 90% of fans find his offseason to be very curious, and that might be a very generous description.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It’s also a lot easier to build fast when Fox, Trouba, and Panarin will only play in NY. Rags have a huge advantage over a lot of teams in the league (if not all of them) when it comes to players wanting to player there (for whatever reason).

It takes most teams years to rebuild but they had an extremely fast turnaround (potentially). How long were people saying “this is the year Carolina (or Florida) is going to make the playoffs!” before they actually did?

What the Rags did was not a traditional rebuild. They have advantages that just about no other team has access to making it more of a retool than a rebuild.

Devils also missed on their 2017 1OA. It’s too early to say if they missed on 2019 1OA, but Hughes isn’t off to a great start. Devils got many advantages in their rebuild that teams would love to have, and they’ve squandered them so far.

 

[goonybird]

Devils also missed on their 2017 1OA. It’s too early to say if they missed on 2019 1OA, but Hughes isn’t off to a great start. Devils got many advantages in their rebuild that teams would love to have, and they’ve squandered them so far.

Hughes is outplaying his entire draft class. Who else should they have taken?

 

[BPD]

Devils also missed on their 2017 1OA. It’s too early to say if they missed on 2019 1OA, but Hughes isn’t off to a great start. Devils got many advantages in their rebuild that teams would love to have, and they’ve squandered them so far.

Wait, are you saying they missed on a 20 year old center who has yet to play one normal ass season and a 23 year old center simply because they didn't get Makar or Pettersson?

That's a real hard take to defend, even in hindsight.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hughes is outplaying his entire draft class. Who else should they have taken?

Is he? I think there would be many answers over who should be 1OA now. When he was drafted the consensus was that Hughes was the 1OA with very little competition from anyone.

 

[goonybird]

Is he? I think there would be many answers over who should be 1OA now. When he was drafted the consensus was that Hughes was the 1OA with very little competition from anyone.

Yes? He? Is?