Devils or Rangers: Who has the better future?

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

i can add in value

the rangers rebuild has stalled out and I see nothing but smoke and mirrors, and the NHL gifting them a 1st and 2nd overall set of picks that have yet to impress or leave a mark in the NHL. The devils will be better, the isles will be better, and the rangers can hold onto 1994 because that's the last cup they'll see for a good long time. show me actual results on the ice and not your hypothetical prospects and an asterisk norris trophy from an overrated defenseman

I'd hate to see you not try to add value.

 

[HBK27]

LOL - from Dom Luszczyszyn's article in The Athletic looking at which teams got better or worse this offseason:

NHL offseason by the numbers: Which teams have improved the most (and least)?

27. New York Rangers
Wins Added: -3.6 wins
Salary Added: $1.1 million

In: Barclay Goodrow, Dryden Hunt, Sammy Blais, Patrik Nemeth, Ryan Reaves, Jarred Tinordi
Out: Pavel Buchnevich, Tony DeAngelo, Colin Blackwell, Philipp di Giuseppe, Brendan Smith, Brett Howden

No team had a more baffling offseason as the front office seems to have gone all-in on the tougher to play against mandate. The Rangers spent an extra $1.1 million to be nearly four wins worse. Not a single player brought in is a significant needle mover and that includes Barclay Goodrow who will look much worse when not playing next to Gourde and Coleman. Ryan Reaves, at this stage of his career, hurts much more than he helps while neither Sammy Blais nor Patrik Nemeth offers much value above replacement.

It’s a whole pile of nothing but toughness. It has a place, but the Rangers should prefer players who are actually good on top of being in tough, like Wilson, to solve their Wilson problem. They overpaid to curb a hyper-fixation on one player and arguably set the team back to do it.

The Rangers should still be in the playoff mix after this, they had a strong base to begin with, but they didn’t make things any easier for themselves trading away Pavel Buchnevich. That’s a legitimate top line forward traded for a low pick and someone who hits. Great work.

 

[Osakahaus]

Do you consider NJD being gifted 2 #1 picks? Or is the salt just there because NYR finally had a decent draft # after years of trading away their first, or finishing mid-range because despite not winning, they just didn't suck enough?

Devils actually were garbage. The rangers were average both times

read the room

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

LOL - from Dom Luszczyszyn's article in The Athletic looking at which teams got better or worse this offseason:

NHL offseason by the numbers: Which teams have improved the most (and least)?

27. New York Rangers
Wins Added: -3.6 wins
Salary Added: $1.1 million

In: Barclay Goodrow, Dryden Hunt, Sammy Blais, Patrik Nemeth, Ryan Reaves, Jarred Tinordi
Out: Pavel Buchnevich, Tony DeAngelo, Colin Blackwell, Philipp di Giuseppe, Brendan Smith, Brett Howden

No team had a more baffling offseason as the front office seems to have gone all-in on the tougher to play against mandate. The Rangers spent an extra $1.1 million to be nearly four wins worse. Not a single player brought in is a significant needle mover and that includes Barclay Goodrow who will look much worse when not playing next to Gourde and Coleman. Ryan Reaves, at this stage of his career, hurts much more than he helps while neither Sammy Blais nor Patrik Nemeth offers much value above replacement.

It’s a whole pile of nothing but toughness. It has a place, but the Rangers should prefer players who are actually good on top of being in tough, like Wilson, to solve their Wilson problem. They overpaid to curb a hyper-fixation on one player and arguably set the team back to do it.

The Rangers should still be in the playoff mix after this, they had a strong base to begin with, but they didn’t make things any easier for themselves trading away Pavel Buchnevich. That’s a legitimate top line forward traded for a low pick and someone who hits. Great work.

It's hard to believe people spend money to read drivel like this.

 

[Platano King]

Doesn't that also scare you a bit, though? The Rangers had a Norris winner and a Hart finalist and still missed the playoffs by a pretty decent margin (11 points in a shortened season). There were certainly mitigating factors with the Panarin mess, COVID and the division imbalance... but I think it geos to show both Rangers and Devils fans how far both teams really have to go to be able to compete. Even if you take out those mitigating factors + guarantee that both Panarin/Fox put up equivalent seasons, there's still a sizeable gap to overcome between cracking the playoffs and contending.

Not really when you consider we have the youngest blueline and one of the youngest forward groups in the league. If Kakko, Laf, Miller, Lundkvist, Lindgren, and Chytil are the same players in 2024 as they are now, something went seriously wrong. I think it's also important to remember that our bottom-6 was atrocious (and significantly improved upon this offseason) and that we're going from one of the worst coaches in the league in David Quinn to one of the best.

I think you're seriously understating the effect those "mitigating factors" had in a race that was tight until the end. The Rangers played in one of the toughest divisions in the NHL and finished ahead the Stanley Cup finalists against tougher competition. This with Mika getting COVID, David Quinn f***ery, Tony Deangelo f***ery, missing our best player for ~25% of the season, and everyone getting injured and the team collapsing the last week of the season. Unless a repeat of those freak scenarios happens again, we're gonna be fine.

 

[Doctyl]

Doesn't that also scare you a bit, though? The Rangers had a Norris winner and a Hart finalist and still missed the playoffs by a pretty decent margin (11 points in a shortened season). There were certainly mitigating factors with the Panarin mess, COVID and the division imbalance... but I think it geos to show both Rangers and Devils fans how far both teams really have to go to be able to compete. Even if you take out those mitigating factors + guarantee that both Panarin/Fox put up equivalent seasons, there's still a sizeable gap to overcome between cracking the playoffs and contending.

Some of the gap will surely be eaten up by development made within but its a little bit of a race against time as to how quickly that development will happen vs how many seasons will everyone already producing be able to keep at it (and I'm not really talking strictly primes here but stuff like down-years, injuries, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I'd still much rather be in the Rangers shoes right now than the Devils (my earlier posts spelled this out but the Rangers are definitely the safer bet between the two, even if the window may already have a possible expiration date).. but it really speaks to how much more is needed throughout the line-up that a Norris/Hart caliber player isn't enough to even put you close.

Not really. Dolan’s temper tantrum also had the benefit of axing the NCAA coach Gorton was insistent upon handicapping us with. Let’s see what a grown up can do with a Hart finalist and a Norris winner

 

[Uncle Dru]

LOL - from Dom Luszczyszyn's article in The Athletic looking at which teams got better or worse this offseason:

NHL offseason by the numbers: Which teams have improved the most (and least)?

27. New York Rangers
Wins Added: -3.6 wins
Salary Added: $1.1 million

In: Barclay Goodrow, Dryden Hunt, Sammy Blais, Patrik Nemeth, Ryan Reaves, Jarred Tinordi
Out: Pavel Buchnevich, Tony DeAngelo, Colin Blackwell, Philipp di Giuseppe, Brendan Smith, Brett Howden

No team had a more baffling offseason as the front office seems to have gone all-in on the tougher to play against mandate. The Rangers spent an extra $1.1 million to be nearly four wins worse. Not a single player brought in is a significant needle mover and that includes Barclay Goodrow who will look much worse when not playing next to Gourde and Coleman. Ryan Reaves, at this stage of his career, hurts much more than he helps while neither Sammy Blais nor Patrik Nemeth offers much value above replacement.

It’s a whole pile of nothing but toughness. It has a place, but the Rangers should prefer players who are actually good on top of being in tough, like Wilson, to solve their Wilson problem. They overpaid to curb a hyper-fixation on one player and arguably set the team back to do it.

The Rangers should still be in the playoff mix after this, they had a strong base to begin with, but they didn’t make things any easier for themselves trading away Pavel Buchnevich. That’s a legitimate top line forward traded for a low pick and someone who hits. Great work.

The rub here is the Rangers could have easily acquired a player who grades highly in Dom's model, score much higher in this ranking, and then continue to get their skulls caved in everytime they play the heavier teams in the league...or anytime playing a game with playoff implications for that matter.

Also find it strange people assume Goodrow won't have good linemates here...

 

[Stewie Griffin]

The rub here is the Rangers could have easily acquired a player who grades highly in Dom's model, score much higher in this ranking, and then continue to get their skulls caved in everytime they play the heavier teams in the league...or anytime playing a game with playoff implications for that matter.

Also find it strange people assume Goodrow won't have good linemates here...

My problem with Goodrow is that his career high for goals in a season is 8. I understand he's not brought in for offense but you're still paying 4.5 million for a guy to score maybe 10 goals for you.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

My problem with Goodrow is that his career high for goals in a season is 8. I understand he's not brought in for offense but you're still paying 4.5 million for a guy to score maybe 10 goals for you.

If you want to look at his value to a team by looking purely at point totals then, yes, the move doesn't do much. But scoring is not what he is being brought in to do.

 

[DialUp]

My problem with Goodrow is that his career high for goals in a season is 8. I understand he's not brought in for offense but you're still paying 4.5 million for a guy to score maybe 10 goals for you.

Goodrow going to have 8 goals by December or I claim to do something drastic and embarrassing as a punishment but not really hold myself to it. Book it.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Goodrow going to have 8 goals by December or I claim to do something drastic and embarrassing as a punishment but not really hold myself to it. Book it.

The point is: whatever his goal total is in December will not not determine whether he's been a good addition or not.

The Ranger offseason is like a highly-skilled NFL team that is high draft picks to bolster the offensive and defensive lines.

 

[DialUp]

The point is: whatever his goal total is in December will not not determine whether he's been a good addition or not.

The Ranger offseason is like a highly-skilled NFL team that is high draft picks to bolster the offensive and defensive lines.

Totally. And we all knew it was coming (well NYR fans at least) since our writers were warning us for weeks. I just think it would be funny if Goodrow somehow pots in 20 while killing penalties and throwing his body around a bit.

 

[Heckler81]

It’s the Rangers and it is not even close.

Only way the Devils win is if they have the better prospect pool. I would say the Rangers have just as good of a prospect pool or better.

So what is the deciding factor?

The Rangers will always be a place that top stars will go to (ex. Panarin). I don’t think the Devils can match this.

 

[AfroThunder396]

The point is: whatever his goal total is in December will not not determine whether he's been a good addition or not.

The Ranger offseason is like a highly-skilled NFL team that is high draft picks to bolster the offensive and defensive lines.

But that's the thing though, it's not like the Rangers went to Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals and decided they needed to add some grit to break through. They missed the playoffs by 11 points even with 16 free wins against BUF/NJ served up on a silver platter.

Bringing in a bunch of big dumb depth guys that can't play doesn't change the fact that NYR's core wasn't good enough to get it done. That team is way too top heavy and unless Laf and Kakko both take enormous strides this year they're not going to have enough depth and secondary scoring to finish any differently.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Devils pretty easily. I really like what they’re building there.
The Rangers seem to always sabotage their rebuilds by signing big name players to bloated contracts. I liked what they were doing up to the time they fired their management.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

But that's the thing though, it's not like the Rangers went to Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals and decided they needed to add some grit to break through. They missed the playoffs by 11 points even with 16 free wins against BUF/NJ served up on a silver platter.

Bringing in a bunch of big dumb depth guys that can't play doesn't change the fact that NYR's core wasn't good enough to get it done. That team is way too top heavy and unless Laf and Kakko both take enormous strides this year they're not going to have enough depth and secondary scoring to finish any differently.

They also missed Panarin for multiple games. And had Zib coming off COVID. Sure their success depends largely on Laf and Kano taking steps, but the “big dumb depth guys” at least are NHL players who are replacing out for place journey men like Holden and DGiuseppe. You can say they’re top heavy, but they are certainly more balanced Sutherland current roster.

Guess the biggest thing is “Dom” gets to decide what moves are valid and which are not. And then arbitrarily gets to assign plus or minus wins based on what he decides is real.

 

[RangerDoggo]

I would have said the Rangers as of last year, but then Tom Wilson got into Dolan’s head. Given how the Devils are more set down center and don’t have a puppet of Sather guiding their rebuild, I’ll go with them.

Both of them will be fine in the end.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

They also missed Panarin for multiple games. And had Zib coming off COVID. Sure their success depends largely on Laf and Kano taking steps, but the “big dumb depth guys” at least are NHL players who are replacing out for place journey men like Holden and DGiuseppe. You can say they’re top heavy, but they are certainly more balanced Sutherland current roster.

Guess the biggest thing is “Dom” gets to decide what moves are valid and which are not. And then arbitrarily gets to assign plus or minus wins based on what he decides is real.

Good thing the Devils didn't get COVID..... Oh wait..

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

It’s the Rangers and it is not even close.

Only way the Devils win is if they have the better prospect pool. I would say the Rangers have just as good of a prospect pool or better.

So what is the deciding factor?

The Rangers will always be a place that top stars will go to (ex. Panarin). I don’t think the Devils can match this.

So you just said the Devils could possibly be better if their players develop but use something the Rangers have historically done and failed miserably with as the deciding factor? It’s little to no wonder how people don’t think about NJ from the outside with takes like this

 

[AfroThunder396]

They also missed Panarin for multiple games. And had Zib coming off COVID. Sure their success depends largely on Laf and Kano taking steps, but the “big dumb depth guys” at least are NHL players who are replacing out for place journey men like Holden and DGiuseppe. You can say they’re top heavy, but they are certainly more balanced Sutherland current roster.

Guess the biggest thing is “Dom” gets to decide what moves are valid and which are not. And then arbitrarily gets to assign plus or minus wins based on what he decides is real.

But they're also replacing Buchnevich and Blackwell, who are both unquestionably better than any of the new guys Drury brought in. You'll have a hard time convincing anyone that this forward group is better than the one last year.

The Rangers are banking hard that the kids are going to grow up and fill in the gaps and IMO that's not a smart bet. Forcing kids into positions they're not ready for is always a recipe for disaster and the Rangers don't have a good track record of developing forwards over the past half decade to begin with.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

LOL - from Dom Luszczyszyn's article in The Athletic looking at which teams got better or worse this offseason:

NHL offseason by the numbers: Which teams have improved the most (and least)?

27. New York Rangers
Wins Added: -3.6 wins
Salary Added: $1.1 million

In: Barclay Goodrow, Dryden Hunt, Sammy Blais, Patrik Nemeth, Ryan Reaves, Jarred Tinordi
Out: Pavel Buchnevich, Tony DeAngelo, Colin Blackwell, Philipp di Giuseppe, Brendan Smith, Brett Howden

No team had a more baffling offseason as the front office seems to have gone all-in on the tougher to play against mandate. The Rangers spent an extra $1.1 million to be nearly four wins worse. Not a single player brought in is a significant needle mover and that includes Barclay Goodrow who will look much worse when not playing next to Gourde and Coleman. Ryan Reaves, at this stage of his career, hurts much more than he helps while neither Sammy Blais nor Patrik Nemeth offers much value above replacement.

It’s a whole pile of nothing but toughness. It has a place, but the Rangers should prefer players who are actually good on top of being in tough, like Wilson, to solve their Wilson problem. They overpaid to curb a hyper-fixation on one player and arguably set the team back to do it.

The Rangers should still be in the playoff mix after this, they had a strong base to begin with, but they didn’t make things any easier for themselves trading away Pavel Buchnevich. That’s a legitimate top line forward traded for a low pick and someone who hits. Great work.

Tatar wasn’t even added for NJ yet and they’re 1, lmao

 

[Eggtimer]

It’s too hard to call for now. I hate to say it but right now on paper the Rags have the better overall group of players . They have an insane amount of very good young D plus potentially two elite young wingers to add to Panarin and Fox. But who knows if they combine to make the better team. Also will they will be able to keep all their preferred players and will they all hit their stride at the right time to be contenders? Lafreniere Kakko etc could bust or turn into legit elite forwards. Same with Holtz Mercer Foote Luke Hughes Stillman Shakir Bahl Okhotyuk etc.
I have always been a die hard devils fan so it is very hard to admit that the Rags have a lot of very good young talent but it will be fun to see how it all works out ! Bring it on !

 

[DialUp]

Devils pretty easily. I really like what they’re building there.
The Rangers seem to always sabotage their rebuilds by signing big name players to bloated contracts. I liked what they were doing up to the time they fired their management.

lol this is their first ever rebuild.

 

[Doctyl]

But they're also replacing Buchnevich and Blackwell, who are both unquestionably better than any of the new guys Drury brought in. You'll have a hard time convincing anyone that this forward group is better than the one last year.

The Rangers are banking hard that the kids are going to grow up and fill in the gaps and IMO that's not a smart bet. Forcing kids into positions they're not ready for is always a recipe for disaster and the Rangers don't have a good track record of developing forwards over the past half decade to begin with.

Blackwell? Lol okay

the kids are ready. That’s the problem. Colin f***ing Blackwell occupying a top 6 spot and PP2 time is a crime. Chytil getting no PP time, and Laf and Kakko getting very inconsistent time isn’t helping anyone. Strome getting PP1 time is a joke and Blackwell getting any is just not comprehensible.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The Rangers made bad moves. They also still have plenty of talented young players that should get better and more than offset the bad moves the GM made.