Proposal: Devils & Ducks

[WhatTheDuck]

A spin off discussion from this thread - http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/trade-talks-really-heating-up-over-last-week.2410925/page-6

To
- RD Sami Vatanen, 2018 3rd

To
- C Pavel Zacha, G MacKenzie Blackwood

The Devils give up two talented, yet seemingly non vital young pieces, in order to fill a big need for top 4 help. Vatanen would be an instant upgrade and could soak up big minutes in all situations.

The Ducks deal from a position of strength, gain valuable cap flexibility, and add a talented young forward who projects to fill a big need, along with an intriguing goalie prospect.

Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[bsu]

Sami for Zacha straight up

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

its not bad, however I would like to remove MacBlack and the pick, if anything

I just don't think Vatanen is someone we should be dealing for. We need a LHD who is good defensively more than RHD.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

its not bad, however I would like to remove MacBlack and the pick, if anything

I just don't think Vatanen is someone we should be dealing for. We need a LHD who is good defensively more than RHD.

I would like to squeeze more value out with Vatanen being the most established player in the deal at a coveted position, but if that was a deal killer I'd ultimately pull the trigger on a straight up trade.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Don't want to trade Vatanen for Zacha who isn't producing that well. I know he has potential to be a good producer in the future but we need good help now and going forward not hoping to potentially get it later.

 

[Static]

Don't want to trade Vatanen for Zacha who isn't producing that well. I know he has potential to be a good producer in the future but we need good help now and going forward not hoping to potentially get it later.

I agree to a point; the only way to acquire elite talent is in situations such as this, and there is risk involved.

Zacha has been disappointing enough for devils' fans not to riot if he's moved? I feel like he could be their version of Nick Ritchie. Everyone can see the ability but the consistency issues have become nauseating.

 

[rent free]

Nj just traded wedgewood to Arizona a few weeks ago. They would be thin on goalie prospects if they made this trade.

 

[firstemperor]

That's a really good gamble for the Ducks IMO. I don't think Zacha will ever be an elite player but he shows flashes here and there.

For the Devils, it makes some sense if they like what Vatanen provides as a PMD.

If I had to judge the deal, Devils probably fill a more immediate need, don't really gain size in their backend though- just skating and puck mobility.

Ducks fill a far bigger need, get another ELC guy with good upside. Ducks would win the deal far more but the trade can be win-win.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

That's a really good gamble for the Ducks IMO. I don't think Zacha will ever be an elite player but he shows flashes here and there.

For the Devils, it makes some sense if they like what Vatanen provides as a PMD.

If I had to judge the deal, Devils probably fill a more immediate need, don't really gain size in their backend though- just skating and puck mobility.

Ducks fill a far bigger need, get another ELC guy with good upside. Ducks would win the deal far more but the trade can be win-win.

the problem is the Devils don't really need a puck mover. They have Severson, Butcher, and to a lesser extent Moore for that. They need a more steady defensive guy, preferably a lefty.

 

[duckpuck]

One of the more reasonably proposals I've seen on the boards.

Not too familiar with Zacha beyond his pedigree, but this is the type of deal the ducks should do. Not sure if the timing is right, particularly with Fowler out. But Zacha/Sam Reinhart are the types of players the Ducks should be targeting between now and next years draft.

 

[Its a Trap]

Wrong handed defenseman for us.

 

[Arthuros]

Larsson is who I’d imagine would be of most interest out of our pieces.

I wish we could get Zacha for Vatanen. I’d forgo the pick and Blackwood, or perhaps add in Megna instead of the pick - steady guy with size for your bottom pairing if LHD is a super priority.

Are you guys looking for an LHD prospect, top-4, or bottom pairing who could up his ice time in a pinch?

 

[dracom]

Larsson is who I’d imagine would be of most interest out of our pieces.

I wish we could get Zacha for Vatanen. I’d forgo the pick and Blackwood, or perhaps add in Megna - steady guy with size for your bottom pairing if LHD is a super priority.

Are you guys looking for an LHD prospect, top-4, or bottom pairing who could up his ice time in a pinch?

We should not be adding to Vats for Zacha if that's what you are suggesting...

I would like a move around Larsson+ for Zacha since Larsson won't have a top 4 role on the left side for us with Lindholm and Fowler there for the future.

 

[Arthuros]

We should not be adding to Vats for Zacha if that's what you are suggesting...

I would like a move around Larsson+ for Zacha since Larsson won't have a top 4 role on the left side for us with Lindholm and Fowler there for the future.

No no, I meant in replacement of the pick. Then that opens up a spot for Larsson in the NHL full-time.

If Larsson goes, then Megna stays instead. We need a steady LHD for the bottom pairing once Beauchemin retires, and we know Megna can be that guy.

Issue is if the Devils want immediate impact on LHD or not. Larsson won’t be ready until next year, I’d think.

 

[Blackjack]

Why are the Ducks willing to give up Vantanen, who seems to be playing 2nd pairing minutes, for a total gamble in Zacha? Just curious. Do the Ducks have other guys that can step up and play those minutes?

I get taking a chance on a guy with a pedigree that just hasn't worked out yet, Mirco Mueller was playing some real nice hockey for us before he got hurt, but we only risked a 2nd round draft pick for him.

the problem is the Devils don't really need a puck mover. They have Severson, Butcher, and to a lesser extent Moore for that. They need a more steady defensive guy, preferably a lefty.

I think nowadays all your defensemen should be puck movers. I'd be more concerned with Vantanen's size. Small defensemen can certainly be effective, but we've already got Greene and Butcher under six feet on the blue line.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Anaheim doesn't need a young goaltender; they already have Gibson.

 

[Arthuros]

Why are the Ducks willing to give up Vantanen, who seems to be playing 2nd pairing minutes, for a total gamble in Zacha? Just curious. Do the Ducks have other guys that can step up and play those minutes?

I get taking a chance on a guy with a pedigree that just hasn't worked out yet, Mirco Mueller was playing some real nice hockey for us before he got hurt, but we only risked a 2nd round draft pick for him.



I think nowadays all your defensemen should be puck movers. I'd be more concerned with Vantanen's size. Small defensemen can certainly be effective, but we've already got Greene and Butcher under six feet on the blue line.

Aging forward core, shot center depth, Montour looking close to taking over Vatanen's role. We need young forward talent.

 

[Exit Dose]

The Devils need to add something to their side. Vatanen is worth more than Zacha.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Wrong handed defenseman for us.

Really? Butcher, Greene, Moore and Mueller and it's another lefty you'd want? I find that odd.

 

[Blackjack]

Aging forward core, shot center depth, Montour looking close to taking over Vatanen's role. We need young forward talent.

Got it. Zacha definitely has talent, and he's still very young, only 20. But he's not driving play at all. It's weird, he wins board battles, he finishes plays, he makes passes. If you were to watch him in a typical game, you'd probably notice his tools, his confident and precise stick handling, accurate passing, good work along the boards, etc. and just figure he had an off night because he didn't generate any scoring opportunities. The issue is, it's been like that for almost all his games. I've seen some Devils fans suggest that he'll probably become a consistent top six forward some day, but maybe a 50-60 point guy instead of the 70-80 point guy you hope you'd get as a 6th overall. That makes a lot of sense to me, but at the same time, he might not get there for another year or two.

The Devils need to add something to their side. Vatanen is worth more than Zacha.

Yeah, I think you're right. Let's make it a blockbuster. Arthuros said you need centers. Adam Henrique has been lackluster this year. He's only 27, he's proven he can score at a high 2nd line, low 1st line rate. Good utility guy, kills penalties etc. Devils can go with Zajac, Hischier, Coleman, Boyle the rest of the year, and they have Mike McLeod in the wings. Willing to take picks, prospects, or young players in return.

To Anaheim:
Henrique
Zacha

To NJ:
Vatanen
???

(This is just for fun, I wouldn't actually trade two roster centers at once in the middle of the season.)

 

[duckpuck]

Why are the Ducks willing to give up Vantanen, who seems to be playing 2nd pairing minutes, for a total gamble in Zacha? Just curious. Do the Ducks have other guys that can step up and play those minutes?

Going forward, the Ducks have salary cap issues to address - not so much this year as next, when Fowler and Manson's contracts kick in and a bunch of guys need to be re-signed or replaced. Vats is the obvious extra piece - valuable but replaceable by Montour. Ducks have lots of defense both in the NHL and coming. But the forward core is aging (Kesler, Getzlaf, Perry and Eaves) and in the next year, it will be time to trade defensive depth for a young forward (ideally a center). And the ducks could use a young goalie prospect as well - not much in the pipeline after Gibson.

 

[Arthuros]

The hope is that we can use him for now in a role with more ice time, and give him more sheltered deployment once Getzlaf and Kesler get back, maybe sliding him to wing or playing him as 3C.

Someone on the Ducks board mentioned how Zacha reminded them of Rakell in the early years - a guy who had all the skills but had trouble executing them consistently. Maybe it takes shifting to wing in the future.

That being said, I also would like to see us get someone in the pipeline in goal...Miller may be a nice 1B, and Berra’s not too bad, but in terms of actual prospects we’re hurting a bit. Blackwood is an interesting plus...I’d imagine Schneider and Kinkaid have the NHL jobs on lock. So who knows - depends on how highly Blackwood’s valued.

I’m just kinda tired of the Ducks trading away young forward talent as opposed to bringing them in. It would be a nice change for BM to take a chance at someone younger up front. Of course, Zacha could turn out like another Sekac, but I think he’s going to be better than that.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Devils need LHD more

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Why are the Ducks willing to give up Vantanen, who seems to be playing 2nd pairing minutes, for a total gamble in Zacha? Just curious. Do the Ducks have other guys that can step up and play those minutes?

I get taking a chance on a guy with a pedigree that just hasn't worked out yet, Mirco Mueller was playing some real nice hockey for us before he got hurt, but we only risked a 2nd round draft pick for him.



I think nowadays all your defensemen should be puck movers. I'd be more concerned with Vantanen's size. Small defensemen can certainly be effective, but we've already got Greene and Butcher under six feet on the blue line.

Vatanen plays bigger than he is, as for why wed move him because we have 5 top 4 dmen(fowler lindholm manson vatanen Montour) on our roster right now, our offense is a little on the older side and needs some young talent boosted into it(rakell/silf/Ritchie/kase etc are nice but none are centers), I think most of us realize vatanen is likely gone at the draft, just too much money with manson and fowlers raises coming next season and Montour showing hes NHL ready, vatanen has kinda become the odd man out. We also still have talented dmen in our system, Jacob Larsson projects to be a top 4 dmen in the not too distant future, and Josh Mahura is looking like another good right handed dmen drafted by us( have some less known players in megna, pettersson, welinski that can pick up bottom pairing mins). Our center depth outside of Getz and Kesler is a little scary as they get older(steel has looked good, morand has potential but outside of that not too many bright spots), most of us would prefer that we look for non rental youngish centers if we move vatanen.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

We should not be adding to Vats for Zacha if that's what you are suggesting...

I would like a move around Larsson+ for Zacha since Larsson won't have a top 4 role on the left side for us with Lindholm and Fowler there for the future.

I would love that. Like Larsson a lot.

Why are the Ducks willing to give up Vantanen, who seems to be playing 2nd pairing minutes, for a total gamble in Zacha? Just curious. Do the Ducks have other guys that can step up and play those minutes?

I get taking a chance on a guy with a pedigree that just hasn't worked out yet, Mirco Mueller was playing some real nice hockey for us before he got hurt, but we only risked a 2nd round draft pick for him.



I think nowadays all your defensemen should be puck movers. I'd be more concerned with Vantanen's size. Small defensemen can certainly be effective, but we've already got Greene and Butcher under six feet on the blue line.

oh I don't disagree. But Santini, as an example, is a more defensive minded DMan. He can still move the puck out of the zone. I don't want a Ben Lovejoy type grenade handler.

Vatanen is more of an offensive minded DMan, though. I don't think we really need that at the moment.

Really? Butcher, Greene, Moore and Mueller and it's another lefty you'd want? I find that odd.

Butcher can play both sides.
Greene is getting older
Moore is UFA at year's end and isnt very good
Mueller is out awhile

ideally, I'd like our D to be something like:

NEW GUY-Severson
Greene-Santini
Mueller-Butcher
Moore