Post-Game Talk: Devils crush the Caps 6-0: The Dea Rises

[JimEIV]

There's a lot of stupid people in the world.

Some of them are NHL GMs.

But even the stupid ones have to work under a salary cap...and he's a big ticket. And he has a no trade doesn't he?

 

[Nubmer6]

But even the stupid ones have to work under a salary cap...and he's a big ticket. And he has a no trade doesn't he?

When I see some of the trades that have come down in this league, I'm apt to believe that anything's possible.

 

[The 29th Pick]

for a pick and Cory Lou would bite if there was a goaltending problem in Brooklyn

 

[MadDevil]

Just about any contract is moveable if you really want it to be. Cory would have to be truly horrendous when he comes back to even worry about it though, which I don't think will happen. I certainly don't expect to see prime Cory again, but I could see a ~.915 Cory that would be good enough to get us in the playoffs.

 

[EliasFTW]

Where is my GDT, I ruined a friends 300 tonight by beating him 5 games in darts. I need a GDT!

 

[glenwo2]

Where is my GDT, I ruined a friends 300 tonight by beating him 5 games in darts. I need a GDT!

There's no game on Saturday(today). Game is tomorrow at 1 pm against the "Tough Buildings" of San Jose.

 

[AfroThunder396]

The way it looks right now, and admittedly it's one-sided because we haven't seen Cory play this year so things could change, but as of right now it looks like Kinkaid should be the guy going forward. He's younger, cheaper, better, healthier, and doesn't appear to be declining. But logistically I have no idea how to get out of Cory's deal.

You guys are certainly right that there are a lot of horseshit GMs that make really dumb trades, and we know Shero is a great trading GM. But I don't see an obvious solution.

 

[EliasFTW]

There's no game on Saturday(today). Game is tomorrow at 1 pm against the "Tough Buildings" of San Jose.

Haha, damn drunk life. No idea why i thought we had a game today.

 

[Bleedred]

The way it looks right now, and admittedly it's one-sided because we haven't seen Cory play this year so things could change, but as of right now it looks like Kinkaid should be the guy going forward. He's younger, cheaper, better, healthier, and doesn't appear to be declining. But logistically I have no idea how to get out of Cory's deal.

You guys are certainly right that there are a lot of horse**** GMs that make really dumb trades, and we know Shero is a great trading GM. But I don't see an obvious solution.

I'm not convinced Kinkaid should be the guy going forward, unless you mean in the short term. I'm still skeptical that he can be a (good) starter in the league, but I'm also no longer convinced that Cory is better than him anymore. Not because I think Kinkaid is great, but because I just don't think Cory is good anymore and he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt after back to back .90-something seasons. Cory doesn't deserve a very long leash when he gets back or try to shake the rust off, if Kinkaid is playing well.

I am starting to believe that if Keith has a good season, some team will sign him to compete for the starter spot next year, much like the Sabres gave Carter Hutton. Perhaps it's our team that keeps him. A new contract won't cost much and if Cory has a third year in a row of below average goaltending, he absolutely can't be the starter going forward.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I'm not convinced Kinkaid should be the guy going forward, unless you mean in the short term. I'm still skeptical that he can be a (good) starter in the league, but I'm also no longer convinced that Cory is better than him anymore. Not because I think Kinkaid is great, but because I just don't think Cory is good anymore and he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt after back to back .90-something seasons. Cory doesn't deserve a very long leash when he gets back or try to shake the rust off, if Kinkaid is playing well.

I am starting to believe that if Keith has a good season, some team will sign him to compete for the starter spot next year, much like the Sabres gave Carter Hutton. Perhaps it's our team that keeps him. A new contract won't cost much and if Cory has a third year in a row of below average goaltending, he absolutely can't be the starter going forward.

But then you've got two average-ish goalie locked up for a lot of money. I don't want to sink $10 million into the goaltender position.

I think you have to decide at the end of the year who your goalie will be going forward and get rid of the other guy. It's easier to keep Cory and let Kink walk, but that's probably the wrong decision. Making the right decision would require some maneuvering, which I'm not sure how we could accomplish.

 

[NJDevs26]

But then you've got two average-ish goalie locked up for a lot of money. I don't want to sink $10 million into the goaltender position.

You generally have to pay close to that anyway, if you have a starter making $5-8 million and a backup making $1-2.5 million. We're paying $7.25 million now between Cory and KK and that's with both on good contracts relative to their position. Besides we're never going to hit the cap celing in the forseeable future anyway, what's the difference if we have to overpay by a million or two on goalies?

 

[Bleedred]

But then you've got two average-ish goalie locked up for a lot of money. I don't want to sink $10 million into the goaltender position.

I think you have to decide at the end of the year who your goalie will be going forward and get rid of the other guy. It's easier to keep Cory and let Kink walk, but that's probably the wrong decision. Making the right decision would require some maneuvering, which I'm not sure how we could accomplish.

The thing is that I don't think Cory is tradeable after the last two years. If he has a threepeat of these poor seasons, he definitely won't be tradeable. He probably needs to have a really good season in order to be tradeable and if he does, maybe we should stick it out with him and hope it's a Pekka Rinne-like resurrection and that we can at least get by with him until the new CBA, which will come 1-2 years before his contract ends. Then we get rid of him via amnesty buyout if he's fallen apart.

I don't think Kinkaid will cost a lot of money though. I don't even think he'll get $3 million per year, unless he has a monster year that's probably far better than his actual capabilities. Even after this year, a buyout for Cory will probably cost us $2 million a year for the next 6 years? Or am I wrong with that? It would probably be best to keep him, but permanently demote him to backup if he has another poor season.

 

[Call Me Al]

cory’s injury history is a problem but it’s not nearly close to the certainty that he’s finished or has no trade value that it seems is being thrown around here. let’s wait until he comes back and plays pain free for the first time in two years before declaring him backup-level for the rest of his career

 

[None Shall Pass]

cory’s injury history is a problem but it’s not nearly close to the certainty that he’s finished or has no trade value that it seems is being thrown around here. let’s wait until he comes back and plays pain free for the first time in two years before declaring him backup-level for the rest of his career

Agreed. If anything, I'm very, very hyped to have him back. Cory had an outstanding (albeit short) playoffs last season.

 

[thethinglonger]

Just pure domination

 

[Cage Helmet]

cory’s injury history is a problem but it’s not nearly close to the certainty that he’s finished or has no trade value that it seems is being thrown around here. let’s wait until he comes back and plays pain free for the first time in two years before declaring him backup-level for the rest of his career

Meh. Schneider’s save percentage is .909 over his last 104 games played. At what point do we stop giving him a pass? He’s not elite anymore.

Agreed. If anything, I'm very, very hyped to have him back. Cory had an outstanding (albeit short) playoffs last season.

And that 103 games of .909% tending includes his .950% playoff series last year.

 

[Bleedred]

Meh. Schneider’s save percentage is .909 over his last 104 games played. At what point do we stop giving him a pass? He’s not elite anymore.

And that 103 games of .909% tending includes his .950% playoff series last year.

It only took a year and a few months of poor goaltending from Marty for much of this forum to turn on him, and rightfully so. Because he wasn't good anymore. I think it's time to stop giving Cory the benefit of the doubt. If he comes back and this type of play continues, will people still say ''Well, he's only 32. He just came off of surgery! He'll get into it!''. What if he has one more poor year? Will people be saying next summer that it's his first healthy offseason in however long?

I hope he returns to form, but I also don't think he should be given the benefit of the doubt anymore. I know he was playing well and was a .920+ in December, but who's to say that if he didn't get injured, he still wouldn't have had those numbers regress back to where they did? Just not as fast as they did. He likely would have played approximately 20 more games if he wasn't injured. As I've pointed out, most goalies are not consistent from month to month over a full season. Marty had 30 game stretches of .920 goaltending in his twilight years. He actually had a 65-ish game stretch of .920 goaltending from February 2012 to February 2013, if I'm not mistaken. So while Cory is not the .860 goalie we saw from late December through his last regular season start, I'm also highly skeptical that he's the .920 goaltender that he was through December.

 

[Call Me Al]

marty was 41 years old playing roughly 70 games a year, cory is 32 with 2 real seasons as a full time starter. come on

 

[Call Me Al]

Meh. Schneider’s save percentage is .909 over his last 104 games played. At what point do we stop giving him a pass? He’s not elite anymore.

at the point that you directly quoted. when he comes back and plays pain free for the first time in 2 years. this isn't a declarative statement that he will be as good as he was, but he was an all star in the last season that he played where he wasn't injured. having hip/groin issues is going to hurt your performance. if those injuries are behind him why is everyone so quick to assume he sucks now?

and let's not forget that he actually looked great before he reaggrivated this injury last season...

 

[Call Me Al]

i love how "let's see how he plays when he gets back before judging what he is now" is somehow a controversial or bold statement worth arguing over.

 

[Bleedred]

marty was 41 years old playing roughly 70 games a year, cory is 32 with 2 real seasons as a full time starter. come on

How many goaltenders (not including a random backup that fluctuates wildly from year to year) have two consecutive seasons like that and return to being good again? Pekka Rinne is the only one that I can think of in recent memory.

Ed Belfour had a really terrible season in his last year in Dallas, then returned to form in Toronto at 37 years old. That was just one poor season though.

Something similar happened to Kari Lehtonen around 30 years old a couple years before Cory. He had a poor season, then never returned to normal. Jimmy Howard fell off around 30, had 3 poor seasons, then had one good one again, before returning back to being poor again.

 

[Bleedred]

It is certainly possible that Cory was bouncing back last year and would have been a .920 goalie (or thereabouts) had he played the whole season and not gotten injured, but it's also possible that his .920 goaltending through December wouldn't have held up over the next several months, even if he hadn't gotten injured.

 

[Call Me Al]

i'd argue that howard and lehtonen were never very good.

but that aside, my only point is that it's stupid to judge what a goalie is before you even see him play a game, nevermind assess his trade value or role on this team or any team

 

[Bleedred]

i'd argue that howard and lehtonen were never very good.

but that aside, my only point is that it's stupid to judge what a goalie is before you even see him play a game, nevermind assess his trade value or role on this team or any team

I agree with you that Howard and Lehtonen were definitely never as good as Cory.

I don't think it's stupid to judge a goalie that hasn't played this year, after two years of below average play though.

My statements regarding his trade value and role on the team are based on the hypothetical that he continues to play below average this season.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

There are only two reasons to trade Schneider, either someone is going to give you a ridiculous return for him in a trade, or Shero is gearing up to spend a ton of cap space on a player not currently in the organization, and by that I mean like a $16 million AAV offer sheet for Matthews.

Otherwise, his cap hit really has no effect on what the Devils need to do roster wise. So might as well see if he can get back to what he was a few years ago.

 

[Bleedred]

There are only two reasons to trade Schneider, either someone is going to give you a ridiculous return for him in a trade, or Shero is gearing up to spend a ton of cap space on a player not currently in the organization, and by that I mean like a $16 million AAV offer sheet for Matthews.

Otherwise, his cap hit really has no effect on what the Devils need to do roster wise. So might as well see if he can get back to what he was a few years ago.

I never advocated for trading him, but he can't be our starter with one more poor season. I'd be okay with eating his contract and using him as a backup for the last 3 years, if he does have another poor year.