Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXXI

[Azathoth]

It’s official, the teams that got hit the hardest by Covid-19 had long stretches of bad hockey and none made the playoffs.

Go figure.

 

[vnahodil]

FYI based on Czech news, Zacha is not joining the Czech NT for WC due to an unspecified injury - he's apparently not even practicing with Devils now and only joins on match days.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

That’s too much for Sharangovich. He’s only had one shortened season in the NHL. Not sure why he’d get nearly the same as what Kyle Palmieri got on his last day, which was after he was already an NHL regular for almost 5 years.

I’d be surprised if he gets more than what Wood and Zacha are currently getting. It should be probably be a bridge deal, as he’s just not proven enough yet. Same with Kuokkanen, but his projected hit is actually very fair and seems fairly accurate.

I feel like Vatanen is likely not getting an NHL deal at all. Maybe a camp invite. 3 years for him is really out of the question. He went the entire offseason last year without being signed, until we signed him even after camp started.

You should pay players projecting them forward, not what they have done in the past. That is how teams get in trouble. IMO Shara will be more productive than Palms over the next 3 years and that is all I care about at this point so I would pay him more than Palms.

 

[My3Sons]

FYI based on Czech news, Zacha is not joining the Czech NT for WC due to an unspecified injury - he's apparently not even practicing with Devils now and only joins on match days.

My guess is that knee injury is still bothering him.

 

[Blender]

It’s official, the teams that got hit the hardest by Covid-19 had long stretches of bad hockey and none made the playoffs.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

 

[Billdo]

Piggybacking off of the previous thread, I'm one of Zacha's biggest proponents, would never suggest he's on Boeser's level, and can't really recall who has.

Evidently there's been "plenty" which is a massive exaggeration.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

My last comments on keeping Zacha vs trading him to upgrade the roster. If we can get a legitimate impact forward or defensemen that is a big upgrade you do it. I don't know if there is any feasible scenario were that happens but I feel that if such situation were to present itself you pull the trigger.

Now as for keeping Zacha which ultimately we will do and would be the right decision 99% of the time I think you only have to really factor in a few things.

1. His shot rate is way up and is that just a product of him becoming a better hockey player or something else? As many have pointed it out it seems to mostly be confidence, I believe he has said this in pressers numerous times now.

2. His compete seems to be MUCH better. I don't think this is so much a player thing as it is a coach thing. Look at how much more consistent Bratt is since Ruff came in as opposed to under Hynes. I would guess coaching plays a big part in this.

3. Moving to the wing Zacha doesn't have to be the main play driver. Zacha is good in open space and when he is moving with speed. He is not explosive and struggles in the transition when he has to stop and start. Nico and Bratt solve this problem almost entirely.

4. Zacha has less defensive responsibilities. Being near the point he just has to get in the way and keep his stick in the lane to be relatively effective. His turnovers are still a big concern at our blueline though. While I still don't think he is a good defensive player I think being caved this year more so has to do with our defense being mostly traded/out/ahl replacements and the fact that he played roughly 8 games with a broken down Nico.

All in all I think Zacha will be able to consistently be a 50 point player moving forward. Not what we hoped from a 6th overall pick but I do believe he was mismanaged. There might still be room for growth there as well but that is being very optimistic imo.

Some data to paint a better picture.

True. A lot of this comes back to a comment I made in the last thread. I was willing to give every player a clean slate with the new staff. Seems like other posters are more worried about Zachas play years back playing with a weak group of wings and a different coach. That really explains a lot of the difference of the opinion IMO. The key is projecting forward - not looking backwards. Anybody can read old data, what is hard is projecting forward.

 

[Blackjack]

Kind of off topic, but is that Here’s your replay guy that same guy “John Smith” from a few years ago that did Devils/Habs replays? Ended up “quitting” and now he’s doing NHL wide stuff, but got into it with some fans on Twitter tonight and quit again. Guy just seems a bit “off” to me. Apparently he blocks anyone or threatens to quit when someone even slightly criticizes him.

 

[britdevil]

Carrying a knee injury and still playing like a beast.

Respect.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Kind of off topic, but is that Here’s your replay guy that same guy “John Smith” from a few years ago that did Devils/Habs replays? Ended up “quitting” and now he’s doing NHL wide stuff, but got into it with some fans on Twitter tonight and quit again. Guy just seems a bit “off” to me. Apparently he blocks anyone or threatens to quit when someone even slightly criticizes him.

I responded to JFresh on Twitter telling him about this and I was instantly blocked by the HerseYourReplay guy LOL

 

[Devilsfan118]

You should pay players projecting them forward, not what they have done in the past. That is how teams get in trouble. IMO Shara will be more productive than Palms over the next 3 years and that is all I care about at this point so I would pay him more than Palms.

Except any competent GM will argue that 53 meaningless games in a weirdo/bullsh*t season doesn't constitute an accurate enough sample size to award a player, under team control for the foreseeable future, a 3+ year deal at 4m+ per year. That's absolutely crazy talk imo.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I remember seeing that, awful and unlucky.

I don't think this needs to be said but me praising Boeser has no bearing on what I think about Zacha. I feel it's fair to be concerned about Zacha's production seeming some what flukey this season.

The shot rate being way up does give me enough confidence that he can be a 50 point producer though.

You see awful and unlucky, I see 'pretty stupid looking hit there'.

but you know, ok... enough. I clearly like Zacha, and don't have any affection for Boeser - so I think I'll just have to move on and stop defending our players.

Alot will change anyway, before the expansion draft, before the real draft and certainly with free agency - so it's impossible to crystal-ball this. I'm really interested to see how Fitz tries to put this all together, and I'm in favor of any and all upgrades to this team.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Except any competent GM will argue that 53 meaningless games in a weirdo/bullsh*t season doesn't constitute an accurate enough sample size to award a player, under team control for the foreseeable future, a 3+ year deal at 4m+ per year. That's absolutely crazy talk imo.

That is your opinion. That is why we are here - to express opinions, not call each other "crazy".

 

[Offseason Champs]

You should pay players projecting them forward, not what they have done in the past. That is how teams get in trouble. IMO Shara will be more productive than Palms over the next 3 years and that is all I care about at this point so I would pay him more than Palms.

No. You cannot pay people based on what they’re expected to do especially after one (1) professional season of less than sixty games. You sign them to a bridge deal as a prove it contract, then they get paid.
If you judge off of one season primarily and got in hard on a player it’s how you get the Jeff Skinner contract. Much less likely to happen to Sharangovich but you’d be setting the price for your other players. Like Bratt and Zacha are both making under 3, there’s no way Sharangovich gets 4.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

does that contract projection for Sharangovich also factor in his KHL goal scoring totals or no?

 

[Emperoreddy]

My guess is that knee injury is still bothering him.

Still expecting to hear about some kind of knee surgery a week into the offseason.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

No. You cannot pay people based on what they’re expected to do especially after one (1) professional season of less than sixty games. You sign them to a bridge deal as a prove it contract, then they get paid.
If you judge off of one season primarily and got in hard on a player it’s how you get the Jeff Skinner contract. Much less likely to happen to Sharangovich but you’d be setting the price for your other players. Like Bratt and Zacha are both making under 3, there’s no way Sharangovich gets 4.

When did I say I wanted to sign Shara to a long term deal?

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

When did I say I wanted to sign Shara to a long term deal?

Well I want to sign Shara to a long term deal, isn't that the point of having cap space, to sign key young players off ELCs to long term deals? Don't we regret the Bratt bridge already?

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Well I want to sign Shara to a long term deal, isn't that the point of having cap space, to sign key young players off ELCs to long term deals? Don't we regret the Bratt bridge already?

The point I was making with that post is that everyone likes to read things into other posts that are not there. What I said was:

"You should pay players projecting them forward, not what they have done in the past. That is how teams get in trouble. IMO Shara will be more productive than Palms over the next 3 years and that is all I care about at this point so I would pay him more than Palms."

Somehow mentioning that IMO Player A will be more productive than Player B over the next 3 years means you want to give Player A a Jeff Skinner type of 8 year deal. Only on HFB.

I am not sure how Fitz will play this one. He kept saying how he was not sure what the market would be with respect to future cap when discussing the older, declining player Palms. Will that logic apply to the young up and coming players?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I’d love to get Sharangovich on a Jarnkrok type deal. It would be risky to give him huge term with the possibility of him falling back down to earth, but it could also be massive value.

 

[Devilsfan118]

Well I want to sign Shara to a long term deal, isn't that the point of having cap space, to sign key young players off ELCs to long term deals? Don't we regret the Bratt bridge already?

I don't see why that'd be the case - on pace for 50ish points this season which is definitely a step forward but he's no where near "big money extension" territory yet. If he explodes for 70+ points next season then, sure perhaps it would've been wise to sign him for longer term at a higher cap hit. Hindsight and all that.

I think his contract right now is pretty much perfect for both sides. No guarantee he would ever be more than a ~40 point guy at the time of signing.

 

[Devilsfan118]

That is your opinion. That is why we are here - to express opinions, not call each other "crazy".

Perhaps I should've worded it differently but I wasn't necessarily trying to personally attack you there - just being a bit dramatic I guess. But I do think it's a little... premature... to be talking about any sort of long term extension at significant cap hit for a guy with a single season under his belt.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I don't see why that'd be the case - on pace for 50ish points this season which is definitely a step forward but he's no where near "big money extension" territory yet. If he explodes for 70+ points next season then, sure perhaps it would've been wise to sign him for longer term at a higher cap hit. Hindsight and all that.

I think his contract right now is pretty much perfect for both sides. No guarantee he would ever be more than a ~40 point guy at the time of signing.

Well I do at least, and I hope by the end of next year everyone does after he puts up a career best year. Simply the Devils need to save money in 2+ years more so than they need to save money this year and next, so signing Bratt and Shara to long term deals instead of bridges is the better play IMO. Every long term deal is a calculated risk that could turn bad but those two look like building blocks.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I’d love to get Sharangovich on a Jarnkrok type deal. It would be risky to give him huge term with the possibility of him falling back down to earth, but it could also be massive value.

I think we're in a position to take that risk, though. There's probably no better time for us to attempt a contract like that than now given our current flexibility.

I would be surprised for the contract to really be a backbreaker for us.

 

[SJinNewJersey]

Thank you Captain Obvious.