Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXX

[Cheddabombs]

So now we know why Zacha sometimes has a bit of a dad bod going on, Nico's feeding him Swiss chocolates like they're in Hansel and Gretel

 

[NJ Fan 12]

Ben Street has been injured and stashed on the taxi squad. Still need some players that know the league. It will be interesting to see who makes it to Utica. I think Schmelzer and Ben Thomson stick. Jobst has earned another contract. Martel and St. Denis?

Think this year has to be considered an anomaly due to the jumbled schedule, lack of postseason, etc.

If you look at last year's Binghamton team, there were AHL veteran types such as Conner, Melchiori, and Cumisky who had all had a taste of the NHL. With the exception of Ben Street, possibly due to the fact that both New Jersey and the AHL team were essentially in the same building, that was not the case.

With so many first-year players, and a few junior age players that would have been in the OHL had it not been shut down, this year's team was usually much younger than the opposition (much like the parent club). Can't help thinking there will be a few more veteran minor leaguers to go with the returnees and that should benefit both Utica and the organization as a whole.

 

[devilsblood]

No, that's silly for a number of reasons - Boucher's years on the team overlap with the best years for the AHL franchise.

To build a picture of the franchise over the last 20 years:

The River Rats missed the playoffs 6 straight years from 2001 to 2006 and then moved to Lowell in 2006-07. The Lowell Devils would miss the next 3 years but made the playoffs in 2010. The franchise moved to Albany where they missed the playoffs 3 years in a row, so from 2001 to 2013 the franchise made the playoffs once. Some of these teams were just garden-variety mediocre, but a lot were straight up bad. They then made the playoffs 3 out of the next 4 years and had a decent mix of young and old players on those teams, some AHL All-Stars but some older college-type semi-prospects. After the move to Binghamton, they had a playoff team last year but that got ruined this year. The only two clear NHL players who can be said to have developed in the minors in the last 10 years are Blake Coleman and Adam Henrique. Most teams will not have a lot of players who develop in the AHL because the AHL is not much of a development league - the best NHLers, by and large, do not go there.

Next season, the Devils probably will have one of Alex Holtz or Dawson Mercer in the minors for at least some of the year. They will have a young group of D who they hope can contribute in the NHL someday. It makes sense to give them the most support they can have while not wishcasting that all of them are going to blossom and be NHLers. They'll need support from veteran AHLers.

The 03-04 season I see a 30 yr old as the leading scorer, 2nd leading scorer was 25, 3rd leading was 29.

02-03 you have to go 8 guys deep, including 3 29+ yr olds before you see someone under 25.

If you go through the years of the bad teams you do see some young leader boards, but plenty of mix.

13-14 is not young young, but not true AHL vets either. 25 years olds in the top 3 spots, followed by Boucher. 15-16 was a good team with, mostly mid 20's in the top 10. Boucher being the lone "young guy". Top D producer is 28 years old. Don't see any prospects that turned into NHL players though. So not sure this is evidence of how to develop players.

 

[devilsblood]

Meanwhile in Ontario, their top 5 leading point producers go: 20 yrs old, 21, 21, 18, 20. Not a good team(though some might blame goaltending based on save %, Im not so quick to do that) but do we think Kaliyev's development, (he is currently the teams leader in goals and points) is being hurt by this season?

 

[Triumph]

The 03-04 season I see a 30 yr old as the leading scorer, 2nd leading scorer was 25, 3rd leading was 29.

02-03 you have to go 8 guys deep, including 3 29+ yr olds before you see someone under 25.

If you go through the years of the bad teams you do see some young leader boards, but plenty of mix.

13-14 is not young young, but not true AHL vets either. 25 years olds in the top 3 spots, followed by Boucher. 15-16 was a good team with, mostly mid 20's in the top 10. Boucher being the lone "young guy". Top D producer is 28 years old. Don't see any prospects that turned into NHL players though. So not sure this is evidence of how to develop players.

You've very neatly mixed cause and effect and created a strawman besides. The reason why the 02-03 Albany River Rats are loaded with veterans and were garbage is because the Devils had few AHL prospects at that time. Berglund and Bicek, the only real prospects on the team, spent substantial time in the NHL. Rupp did also. Lehoux, Cameron, Johansson, Cloutier, Birbraer, Hartsburg, the young forwards on the team - almost all of these guys were superbusts who had no impact in any other major hockey league. They were likely not AHL quality players. Likewise with a lot of the D where Redlihs played for years in Latvia but I don't think any of the other guys really made it, professionally - I have no idea why Viktor Uchevatov was in games at all at age 19.

The 15-16 team was loaded with AHL talent but was not loaded with prospects - Coleman missed almost the whole year, Blandisi and Boucher spent a lot of time in the NHL. Kujawinski and Black were never real prospects.

Next year's Utica team should have a good mix of players who were up here last year and some actual prospects. Clarke is an actual prospect. Foote is too. Holtz and/or Mercer - real. Thompson, real. There should be veterans added to the lineup to give these players support.

 

[Triumph]

Meanwhile in Ontario, their top 5 leading point producers go: 20 yrs old, 21, 21, 18, 20. Not a good team(though some might blame goaltending based on save %, Im not so quick to do that) but do we think Kaliyev's development, (he is currently the teams leader in goals and points) is being hurt by this season?

You've created a cool second strawman where you are comparing this AHL season, a season that is unlike any other season to date and will almost certainly be unlike any one in the near future, to any other AHL season. Byfield and Kaliyev (who by the way is not 20) would not be in the AHL in a normal year as neither one would be eligible to play there.

 

[devilsblood]

You've very neatly mixed cause and effect and created a strawman besides. The reason why the 02-03 Albany River Rats are loaded with veterans and were garbage is because the Devils had few AHL prospects at that time. Berglund and Bicek, the only real prospects on the team, spent substantial time in the NHL. Rupp did also. Lehoux, Cameron, Johansson, Cloutier, Birbraer, Hartsburg, the young forwards on the team - almost all of these guys were superbusts who had no impact in any other major hockey league. They were likely not AHL quality players. Likewise with a lot of the D where Redlihs played for years in Latvia but I don't think any of the other guys really made it, professionally - I have no idea why Viktor Uchevatov was in games at all at age 19.

The 15-16 team was loaded with AHL talent but was not loaded with prospects - Coleman missed almost the whole year, Blandisi and Boucher spent a lot of time in the NHL. Kujawinski and Black were never real prospects.

Next year's Utica team should have a good mix of players who were up here last year and some actual prospects. Clarke is an actual prospect. Foote is too. Holtz and/or Mercer - real. Thompson, real. There should be veterans added to the lineup to give these players support.

And you've neatly categorized any young player who played on vet laden AHL teams, and yet never progressed as "never real pospects". Meanwhile Bicek, a 5th pick, who turned 24 early in 02-03(and 25 the next season while also in the AHL) was a "real prospect"? Berglund and his 80 games over 4 NHL seasons is a success story?

And sure the 2002-03 team had no prospects, that's fine, but despite having vet's they weren't good either. It was not a bad team because they went young, which was your original point.

Your original point was a rebuttal against the idea of going young at the AHL level. Not sure the Devils history makes much of a point either way.

 

[devilsblood]

You've created a cool second strawman where you are comparing this AHL season, a season that is unlike any other season to date and will almost certainly be unlike any one in the near future, to any other AHL season. Byfield and Kaliyev (who by the way is not 20) would not be in the AHL in a normal year as neither one would be eligible to play there.

My bad Kaliyev is 19, and turns 20 in a month, you got me.

Normal AHL season or not, those guys playing AHL hockey without vets to support them is not hurting their development.

 

[devilsblood]

Next up Triumph points out I was wrong saying Kaliyev turns 20 in a month, when he is actually 6 weeks away from his 20th b-day.

 

[Billdo]

i was very inebriated while watching it….but i was laughing at times……they went full mockery in a few bits…….i recorded it so as to get a sober perspective …

……drunk mind says it wasnt horrible

Sober me felt like it was horrible.

As in Hughes? I'll have to check this out.

I held on as an SNL enthusiast for awhile, but I've faded pretty hard in the last couple years. They keep old players on way too long, and the new players they bring in are just not that funny.

I hate to even mention the "p" word but they certainly go to far on that too. Some funny stuff that gets way overdone. And very one sided as well.

Murdur Durdur, and a Gritty citing. And you guys almost had me on Hughes.

I think it's been pretty funny thus far.

Edit: Cyrus killed it in the opening "sketch", and Elon with a very strong monologue.

Meh, it was bad IMO.

Omg I was saying to myself that kid looked like Hughes, I didn't think it was ACTUALLY Hughes.

It was a joke...

 

[Triumph]

And you've neatly categorized any young player who played on vet laden AHL teams, and yet never progressed as "never real pospects".

Yes, I have and will continue to do that. If a guy's results in a lower league don't suggest a future NHLer, as Kujawinski's and Black's do not, and then they don't succeed in the AHL, either? They were never real NHL prospects. They were drafted with the hope that they could turn into that.

Meanwhile Bicek, a 5th pick, who turned 24 early in 02-03(and 25 the next season while also in the AHL) was a "real prospect"? Berglund and his 80 games over 4 NHL seasons is a success story?

It's fine if you want to call Bicek a non-prospect - that doesn't bother me at all. My point was that he was reasonably young and did not spend a whole lot of time in the AHL in 2002-03.

Christian Berglund had a very successful career in Europe. I don't know why he never came back over after the lockout. I'm not calling him a 'success story' - that is a ridiculous misreading of how I'm trying to characterize these teams. What I'm saying is that he's clearly a step above these other young 'prospects', he was a good player in the AHL, but he did not get to play there a whole lot.

And sure the 2002-03 team had no prospects, that's fine, but despite having vet's they weren't good either. It was not a bad team because they went young, which was your original point.

If they had gone young, they would've been atrocious, because they had no young talent at all. I mean, they were bad, but they would've been historically bad if they had just signed ECHL guys and went with the youth.

Your original point was a rebuttal against the idea of going young at the AHL level. Not sure the Devils history makes much of a point either way.

AHL teams aren't built from scratch every year, but they do turn over quickly. Last year's team often says a lot about how next year's team will do. This year's team was built young and it is awful. I'd like to not see a repeat of that.

My bad Kaliyev is 19, and turns 20 in a month, you got me.

Normal AHL season or not, those guys playing AHL hockey without vets to support them is not hurting their development.

Because they are really good players and the only reason the team isn't winning is because of the goaltending. This whole AHL season is screwed up as a result of five different things all springing from COVID-19, it's just impossible to compare this season to any other.

EDIT: The reason to point out that Kaliyev is not yet 20 is not a 'gotcha', it is to show that he would not be in the AHL in a normal year, whereas if he were already 20, he might be, if he had turned 20 before January 1.

 

[devilsblood]

We can certainly throw him a mulligan all things considered.

But Nico has not looked good this year.

 

[RSeen]

We can certainly throw him a mulligan all things considered.

But Nico has not looked good this year.

Making any conclusions on Nico after the season he has had is non-sense.

 

[RSeen]

With the Sharks being in a pretty piss poor contract spot, if they made Timo Meier available, what's the most you guys would offer them?

I mentioned to @Forge on our site that I'd offer them the Isles first and Nolan Foote considering Foote's contract is sliding another season. I'd even potentially consider adding something.

I'd probably stay away considering his last season of his current deals' salary is $10M which will impact the qualifying offer.

He could easily sign that and walk to free agency. Its a terrible structure for a contract.

 

[devilsblood]

Yes, I have and will continue to do that. If a guy's results in a lower league don't suggest a future NHLer, as Kujawinski's and Black's do not, and then they don't succeed in the AHL, either? They were never real NHL prospects. They were drafted with the hope that they could turn into that.



It's fine if you want to call Bicek a non-prospect - that doesn't bother me at all. My point was that he was reasonably young and did not spend a whole lot of time in the AHL in 2002-03.

Christian Berglund had a very successful career in Europe. I don't know why he never came back over after the lockout. I'm not calling him a 'success story' - that is a ridiculous misreading of how I'm trying to characterize these teams. What I'm saying is that he's clearly a step above these other young 'prospects', he was a good player in the AHL, but he did not get to play there a whole lot.



If they had gone young, they would've been atrocious, because they had no young talent at all. I mean, they were bad, but they would've been historically bad if they had just signed ECHL guys and went with the youth.



AHL teams aren't built from scratch every year, but they do turn over quickly. Last year's team often says a lot about how next year's team will do. This year's team was built young and it is awful. I'd like to not see a repeat of that.



Because they are really good players and the only reason the team isn't winning is because of the goaltending. This whole AHL season is screwed up as a result of five different things all springing from COVID-19, it's just impossible to compare this season to any other.

Was this year's AHL team built young, or did guys like Street(injured) Martel(also injured?) Seney, St Danis, or Jobst(who they brought in later) not have the seasons they hoped?

Given the # of picks in recent years, I see no way the AHL doesn't have a ton of young guys lined up for next year. You mention Holtz and Mercer, being added to the mix but returning guys include Tyce, Clarke, Foote maybe, Talvitie, Zetterlund, Scnharr, still have Studs, still have Merk(not sure on status). At all possible Boq and or Maltsev start down there?

On D, Walsh, Vuko Bahl(maybe) Okhot, all coming back.

Lots of guys coming back, some very talented, and a fair amount of AHL experience. Aight, you want to add one vet guy to put on the top pp, keep Seney up top, or B. Thomson for the bottom 6, maybe a vet d-man and keep Colton White? But I don't see anyway around this team not having a leaderboard filled with young guys next year.

 

[devilsblood]

Yes, I have and will continue to do that. If a guy's results in a lower league don't suggest a future NHLer, as Kujawinski's and Black's do not, and then they don't succeed in the AHL, either? They were never real NHL prospects. They were drafted with the hope that they could turn into that.

Sharangovich?

 

[Goomba]

So now we know why Zacha sometimes has a bit of a dad bod going on, Nico's feeding him Swiss chocolates like they're in Hansel and Gretel

'Is it superior to other chocolates?'

'i guess.. yes'

cant believe we named this elitist Swiss our captain. So typical of Euros, to play along like theyre humble

Hes gettin called Nikki from now on

 

[aboriginal]

Murican chocolate does f***ing suck. Unless it’s some of that artisan stuff.

 

[devilsblood]

Making any conclusions on Nico after the season he has had is non-sense.

Maybe you should google the word "mulligan".

 

[Goomba]

NJ is quite lucky here, in a year where everything that could go wrong, went wrong. NJ also got a lot of bad puck luck 5 on 5 while playing in the leagues toughest division. They aren't the 3rd worst team in the NHL but they will get a top 6 pick. With U18 bias, someone will overdraft Clarke or Edvinsson clearing the road for Hughes to NJ.

I think Hughes' name is too much to pass up on for Seattle's branding and if Detroit wins a top-2 pick theyre 100% taking Luke as theyve wanted a Hughes brother in Detroit for four years now (they do extensive coverage on the Hughes' family yearly in the Detroit press)

 

[Goomba]

Murican chocolate does f***ing suck. Unless it’s some of that artisan stuff.

American chocolate like Hershey contains an ingredient that tastesvery bitter to most other countries' tastebuds; major reason why

 

[TrufleShufle]

American chocolate like Hershey contains an ingredient that tastesvery bitter to most other countries' tastebuds; major reason why

It's called freedompowder.

 

[Triumph]

Was this year's AHL team built young, or did guys like Street(injured) Martel(also injured?) Seney, St Danis, or Jobst(who they brought in later) not have the seasons they hoped?

It was built young. The taxi squad was always going to eat up players like Street, Seney, and many of the other veteran AHLers so they were not going to play full seasons. The Devils dressed 4 rookies on defense routinely.

Given the # of picks in recent years, I see no way the AHL doesn't have a ton of young guys lined up for next year. You mention Holtz and Mercer, being added to the mix but returning guys include Tyce, Clarke, Foote maybe, Talvitie, Zetterlund, Scnharr, still have Studs, still have Merk(not sure on status). At all possible Boq and or Maltsev start down there?

I doubt Merkley is in the organization next year. I also think a lot of the guys you've mentioned will play some in the NHL.

On D, Walsh, Vuko Bahl(maybe) Okhot, all coming back.

Lots of guys coming back, some very talented, and a fair amount of AHL experience. Aight, you want to add one vet guy to put on the top pp, keep Seney up top, or B. Thomson for the bottom 6, maybe a vet d-man and keep Colton White? But I don't see anyway around this team not having a leaderboard filled with young guys next year.

And I think those are largely good players who will top the leaderboard but they should be augmented with some AHL guys and if that means people like Talvitie and Schnarr or Vukojevic or Okhotiuk start out the season as healthy scratches, so be it. People always lose their minds over this sort of thing but injuries pile up and people get to play.

I don't want White and Seney back, two guys who have already been up here plenty and haven't stuck. I want other players.

Sharangovich?

Yegor Sharangovich had far, far better results in the KHL than Black or Kujawinski had in junior hockey. It is just not even close.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Zacha's cf% this year 48%

Nico 46%.

People seem to forget that Gelinas had a pretty good 5v5 corsi% in NJ. Which was better then Sev's, and Greene during that time period. Had a better gf% as well. Situational hockey.

His GF% is a team worst 36.8%. Since 2018 his GF% is 40%. Untradeable.

 

[aboriginal]

American chocolate like Hershey contains an ingredient that tastesvery bitter to most other countries' tastebuds; major reason why

it’s so noticeable when you have quality chocolate. I mean don’t get me wrong I am addicted to reeses pieces and peanut butter cups, etc but when I have a piece of Hershey’s alongside a piece of fazer sininen for example, it’s like who gave me a candy bar from prehistoric times haha.

Oh and uh nico and hockey and penalties and hockey terms and stuff.