Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[NJDevs26]

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[Forge]

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You realized I said that they wouldn't do that, right? (From previous thread)

 

[NJDevs26]

You realized I said that they wouldn't do that, right? (From previous thread)

Someone else in the previous thread said they 'should' be punished I believe. Which is just as wrong. You could argue they were already punished by losing a shot at the lottery, but if you want to say it was a tradeoff for making the playoffs fine. But the point stands, they shouldn't be punished further. If you want to argue give the Devils a compensation pick that's a different story but even that's a bit sketchy. Compensation for what, that we lost out on a 95% chance of getting a higher first-rounder, minus whatever chance Arizona would have had at the lottery?

 

[Forge]

You said they 'should'. Which is just as wrong.

Wut?

I said that I don't think that they would punish Arizona in that situation which is what they would be doing if they changed the trade terms to upgrade the third to a second???

 

[NJDevs26]

I don't think they will punish Arizona in that situation, which is what they would be doing.

Okay the way you wrote that I thought the second would was should. Even if you didn't say it specifically though, there was an argument in the previous thread by someone else that Arizona should be punished and why losing a shot at the lottery wasn't punishment.

 

[Nubmer6]

Someone else in the previous thread said they 'should' be punished I believe. Which is just as wrong. You could argue they were already punished by losing a shot at the lottery, but if you want to say it was a tradeoff for making the playoffs fine. But the point stands, they shouldn't be punished further. If you want to argue give the Devils a compensation pick that's a different story but even that's a bit sketchy. Compensation for what, that we lost out on a 95% chance of getting a higher first-rounder, minus whatever chance Arizona would have had at the lottery?

They're supposed to be punished for tampering with the prospects, but I don't think the investigation is over yet. He's saying the league could kill two birds with one stone if they're found guilty.

 

[Edmonton East]

NHL won't do it, but common sense remedy is upgrading the 3rd to a 2nd.

If the play-in series doesn't count as a playoff win, then Devs should get pick 11 back (1 spot back for lotto).

 

[Forge]

Okay the way you wrote that I thought the second would was should. Even if you didn't say it specifically though, there was an argument in the previous thread by someone else that Arizona should be punished and why losing a shot at the lottery wasn't punishment.

Oh no, I'm with you. You can't punish AZ in that situation. If we happened to win some sort of arbitration in terms of loss of value on the pick I think the league simply adds a compensatory pick at the end of some round like Goose said in the other thread, though I don't find that at all remotely likely.

 

[Forge]

If the play-in series doesn't count as a playoff win, then Devs should get pick 11 back (1 spot back for lotto).

The Qualifying round ostensibly acted as the final 10 games of the season or whatever. Them winning that round was a stand in for them going on a run to finish the season and sneak in to the playoffs. You can't punish Arizona in that situation. There's no reason to.

But, I won't disagree that there was a loss of value to the picks because of Covid and the change in the structure. It's a lot easier to win a 5 game series against a single team than it is to make up 5 points and jump 3 teams in 10-12 games. But that decision is going to be independent of Arizona and really has nothing to do with them, so you can't just upgrade the third to a second.

 

[NJDevs26]

They're supposed to be punished for tampering with the prospects, but I don't think the investigation is over yet. He's saying the league could kill two birds with one stone if they're found guilty.

Dock them a third and because we can't get their third, give us a compensatory pick at the end of the 2nd? Fine by me although I'm not gonna complain if they do nothing.

This whole situation was really nobody's fault. People are acting like we're the only team that got screwed - the Penguins and Leafs lost out on sure playoff berths, Winnipeg which would have won the normal initial lottery lost the second lottery, etc...while others were going to get benefitted no matter what system they put out there. Teams on the bubble would have been screaming if they didn't get a play-in chance, especially the ones with fewer games played and it wouldn't have been fair to start the actual playoffs without giving each team a few games in some competitive form first.

The other funny thing is the argument that Arizona got a benefit from making the playoffs that counterbalanced their shot at losing the lottery. Well that's the exact same thing I was saying BEFORE the play-in rounds when people were complaining about how unfair the system was in letting playoff teams who lost in the play-in getting a shot at the lottery. If we were Arizona or Montreal I guarantee at least half the board would have complained about us losing a lottery shot just to get punted out of the playoffs early so it's not exactly treated as an equal tradeoff.

 

[Edmonton East]

The Qualifying round ostensibly acted as the final 10 games of the season or whatever. Them winning that round was a stand in for them going on a run to finish the season and sneak in to the playoffs. You can't punish Arizona in that situation. There's no reason to.

But, I won't disagree that there was a loss of value to the picks because of Covid and the change in the structure. It's a lot easier to win a 5 game series against a single team than it is to make up 5 points and jump 3 teams in 10-12 games. But that decision is going to be independent of Arizona and really has nothing to do with them, so you can't just upgrade the third to a second.

I'm not saying they can or will. The entire point is teams should have never agreed to this bizarre format that did and didn't count the play-in round as a playoff series. Teams a mile out of the playoffs NEVER should have been included in the play-in round. When the NHL decided to go this stupid route, they should have included the entire league. Not arbitrarily omit 7 teams.

Montreal, Arizona, and Chicago did not have any justifiable claim to "finish out their season".

 

[NJDevs26]

That's fine but let's say you try to do it the 'fairest' way which is top 11 in the East, top 10 in the West with the actual bubble teams. You have three play-in series in the East and two in the West to get down to the eight. What do you do with the other eleven teams that aren't playing to get them ready for the actual playoffs? Exhibitions? That isn't exactly the same thing. An extended, bloated seeding bracket where the 1 seed could drop to 5 or 6? That isn't ideal either.

There was always going to be an issue with any system they threw out there.

 

[Edmonton East]

I've outlined the restart and lottery format I wanted a couple times before. Since this is a mute topic at this point, I don't wanna go through it a 3rd time. Correct, there was no perfect way to do this, but the way the NHL ultimately structured it certainly wasn't the most "fair" option. It was clear 10 teams didn't belong in the restart. It was also clear the others teams didn't deserve a lottery shot when getting a play-in series as well (nevermind the potential for upset decent teams to get a lotto pick...which is exactly what happened).

Anyway, onto more fun topics, Devs have a pretty realistic shot at getting Pietrangelo this offseason. Contract would be an albatross in a few years, but right now I give the Devs a 50% shot.

 

[njdevils1982]

@Swiss Prodigy ….quoting you from last thread

"whats a compensation pick?? isnt that a pick from the other team for compensation? Im confused

Do you mean add a 32nd draft pick to a round? That ultimately drops everyone one spot - has this ever been done?"


///


the rangers asked for one after cherapanov died...

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/rangers-want-compensation-in-wake-of-player-death-report-1.728120

and got it….a 2nd round/47th overall in '09…just an added pick in the middle of the round…it ended being up a wreck

Rangers receive compensatory pick for Cherepanov

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

New Jersey is an interesting situation. I believe there is evidence to be found that younger players have come from this break much improved compared to the veterans. There seems to be so many 19-23 year olds catching their stride during a time veterans are known for dominating. I have mentioned this many times on Twitter but NJ has the most 19-23 year old prospects with NHL potential in the league, key word most. If there is any team that could have a Dillon Dube or Denis Gurianov type jump it would be NJ. Not to mention we aren't seeing the full effects of the layoff yet. These teams started their camps in July so most off the weight/skill training would have stopped after 4 months. NJ prospects will have 8 uninterrupted months to prepare themselves for the NHL season. Any one of the following prospects could make the Devils after this break, depending on how much they worked on their games.

Michael McLeod
Nathan Bastian
Joey Anderson
Jesper Boqvist
Nick Merkley
Janne Kuokkanen
Mikhail Maltsev
Nolan Foote
Marian Studenic
Fabian Zetterlund
Ty Smith
Reilly Walsh
Kevin Bahl
Nikita Okhotyuk

That doesn't include the improvements expected out of

Nico Hischier
Jack Hughes
Jesper Bratt
Pavel Zacha (Who am I kidding)

Players like Subban who have battled injuries for years and haven't had proper training offseason.

The bottom 6 teams are going to surprise, I expect at least 2 to make the playoffs next season.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Anyway, onto more fun topics, Devs have a pretty realistic shot at getting Pietrangelo this offseason. Contract would be an albatross in a few years, but right now I give the Devs a 50% shot.

Yeah, the Devils have a 0.50 % shot to get Pietrangelo.

 

[OmNomNom]

How would we fit pietrangelo though, we have sevo, subban, Smith, and then prob Carrick

We should be buying a LD

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

As a followup, discussions are likely going on between Fitzgerald and other GMs on legwork or ideas to get around the flat cap. The following season could be coming up fast and furious and decisions between now and then can affect the roster over the next 5 years. What we know now is that teams like Nashville, Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, Pittsburgh and St Louis are likely fuming look to make change while Florida is likely retooling. NJ should be targeting two players via UFA and looking to make a trade or two with teams up against the cap. At this juncture I don't believe Petrangelo is the right target. If I had to pick and choose two players the first would be Dadonov. He is a talented possession player who had some poor puck luck this year given his and his linemates shooting talent. He and Gusev have chemistry from their time together on SKA, it would also improve the likeness of attracting other Russians. The 2nd player I would sign is Brendon Dillon, he would be a nice steady presence on the back end replacing Andy Greene. He is used to defensive zone starts and is probably the type of defensmen NJ needs most.

 

[Forge]

How would we fit pietrangelo though, we have sevo, subban, Smith, and then prob Carrick

We should be buying a LD

When Smith has been in camp, we have played him on the left side, I'm pretty sure. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I would guess that the plan is actually to have him on the left side.

 

[RememberTheName]

As a followup, discussions are likely going on between Fitzgerald and other GMs on legwork or ideas to get around the flat cap. The following season could be coming up fast and furious and decisions between now and then can affect the roster over the next 5 years. What we know now is that teams like Nashville, Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, Pittsburgh and St Louis are likely fuming look to make change while Florida is likely retooling. NJ should be targeting two players via UFA and looking to make a trade or two with teams up against the cap. At this juncture I don't believe Petrangelo is the right target. If I had to pick and choose two players the first would be Dadonov. He is a talented possession player who had some poor puck luck this year given his and his linemates shooting talent. He and Gusev have chemistry from their time together on SKA, it would also improve the likeness of attracting other Russians. The 2nd player I would sign is Brendon Dillon, he would be a nice steady presence on the back end replacing Andy Greene. He is used to defensive zone starts and is probably the type of defensmen NJ needs most.

I personally believe we will end up getting one of Hoffman/Dadanov as our big free agent grab this offseason. I have a personal preference to Hoffman, as he has slightly better size, better consistency and track record with his offensive game, and imo is a better fit for what this team needs, but I definitely would not be opposed to going after Dadanov as well. He will likely come at a slightly cheaper price given his slight dropoff in points this year and him being slightly older as well, and as you mentioned, might have chemistry with Gusev and could possibly attract more Russians to come over to the Devils. Either one of these options would give a huge boost to our offense for next year, not to mention the natural improvements of all of our young players.
Lines with Hoffman
Gusev - Hischier - Palmieri
Hoffman - Hughes - Bratt
Boqvist - Zacha - Kuokkannen
Foote/Wood/Anderson/McLeod - Zajac - Foote/Wood/Anderson/McLeod

Lines with Dadanov
Gusev - Hischier - Dadanov
Bratt - Hughes - Palmieri
Boqvist - Zacha - Kuokkannen
Foote/Wood/Anderson/McLeod - Zajac - Foote/Wood/Anderson/McLeod

Or something along these lines for our offense

 

[Alex NJD]

I personally believe we will end up getting one of Hoffman/Dadanov as our big free agent grab this offseason. I have a personal preference to Hoffman, as he has slightly better size, better consistency and track record with his offensive game, and imo is a better fit for what this team needs, but I definitely would not be opposed to going after Dadanov as well. He will likely come at a slightly cheaper price given his slight dropoff in points this year and him being slightly older as well, and as you mentioned, might have chemistry with Gusev and could possibly attract more Russians to come over to the Devils. Either one of these options would give a huge boost to our offense for next year, not to mention the natural improvements of all of our young players.
Lines with Hoffman
Gusev - Hischier - Palmieri
Hoffman - Hughes - Bratt
Boqvist - Zacha - Kuokkannen
Foote/Wood/Anderson/McLeod - Zajac - Foote/Wood/Anderson/McLeod

Lines with Dadanov
Gusev - Hischier - Dadanov
Bratt - Hughes - Palmieri
Boqvist - Zacha - Kuokkannen
Foote/Wood/Anderson/McLeod - Zajac - Foote/Wood/Anderson/McLeod

Or something along these lines for our offense

1 small critic, Kuokkanen hasn't done anything to put him above the likes of Wood/Anderson/McLeod just yet. Also I'd bet Foote starts in the AHL

 

[Billdo]

1 small critic, Kuokkanen hasn't done anything to put him above the likes of Wood/Anderson/McLeod just yet. Also I'd bet Foote starts in the AHL

He's produced more than McLeod that's for sure.

 

[Offseason Champs]

He's produced more than McLeod that's for sure.

Edit: never mind I can’t read

 

[Forge]

I mean he hasn’t though.

Depends on how you take it. Mikey has a handful of points (5) in his NHL experience, but nothing that would suggest he's "produced" at this level or will produce at this level. If you want to take it as a very literal, on it's face sort of way, yes, he's produced more than Kuokkanen in that regard at the NHL level. But then you look at their AHL careers and it's not much of a contest. Mikey is barely half a point ppg producer and Kuokkanen is over .75 ppg.

If you were prognosticating who would make the roster based on what they have done thus far in their professional careers, even though Mikey has "outproduced" Kuokkanen at the NHL level thus far, I'd still give better odds that Janne makes the roster over Mikey.

 

[Edmonton East]

How would we fit pietrangelo though, we have sevo, subban, Smith, and then prob Carrick

We should be buying a LD

C'mon now. Is this serious? Smith will likely play on the left. Subban only has 2 years remaining. Carrick is irrelevant.

Essentially they are missing a top pairing LD and RD.

They do not have the assets to trade for a solid dman with size. The ONLY UFA that fits this year is Pietrangelo. They are better off going that direction on an overpay than overpaying another middle pairing guy that still leaves them outmatched vs top lines.

Remember, some of you see me as a resident pessimist (realist), yet here I am saying Devs have roughly a 50% shot.