Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[MikeyFlynn]

When making a trade like that, it doesn’t necessarily mean we automatically need to go from bottom feeder to cup contender. It also doesn’t mean that we can’t make another trade that same summer to fix other areas of weakness.

It’s a question of building towards the future with a sniper that is almost as young as Nico Hischier.

I’ve said it numerous times over the past weeks... we have to start surrounding our gems with proven talent. Nico Hischier or Jack Hughes won’t be taking the next step we’re looking for them to take if they’re playing alongside Boqvist or any of our unproven kids that should be in Binghamton. Yes, Laine is a pipe dream but he’s exactly what I’m talking about, a proven player that can elevate the game of our two young centers. We’re asking both guys to carry the load on a mediocre team with no help whatsoever. It was the first time I saw Nico play with little to no fire and getting beat up shift after shift can start playing with your head. The fact that he had our best winger on his line didn’t change the fact that we couldn’t generate anything and that’s pretty telling imo.

Getting picks in the 1st round is nice and all but it doesn’t guarantee you anything. Boston had 3 straight picks in 2015 and took Zboril, DeBrusk and Senyshyn with the 13th, 14th and 15th overall pick.

The draft is a good place to stock up on young talent but it’s not a perfect science. If we’re going to wait for our picks to pan out, we might be waisting Hischier and Hughes best years. I’m not saying to trade every pick we have but if we can swing a deal and it involves the 18th, the 20th or both picks, so be it... we’re still leaving the draft with a bluechip prospect that we’ll take 7th overall.

THIS^

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I've advocated a ton for making trades and acquiring talent on this board. You're kind of wasting these words on me. The Laine thing is just not a deal we should be making given how much we would have to send there in a quantity for quality approach.

Let’s just say that the proposed deal above is actually on the table. Outside of Severson, who are we really losing? Boqvist, who was picked in the 2nd round and has the potential of being a 2nd/3rd liner and two picks who aren’t locks to play in our top #6? Heck, we picked Pavel Zacha 12 and 14 picks ahead of the guys we’ll be taking with Arizona and Vancouver’s picks and he’s looking like a 3rd line shutdown center.

When you get the better player, you’re always walking out of that deal as the winner and that’s exactly what would happen if we were to send Severson and a bunch of question marks the other way. Even if they all pan out, it’s not as if Laine would go from an elite scorer to a 15 goal scorer. Outside of Ovechkin, he’s the only consistent goal scorer I’ve seen in the past 4 years.

We’re making it out to look as if Severson is a Norris candidate when in reality he’s a serviceable 2nd pairing dman with not much defensive awareness on a very cap friendly deal.

 

[glenwo2]

Problem is, there already is a void even while we have Severson.

(Insert Morgan Freeman "He's right, you know" pic here)

 

[jkrdevil]

Given what this team needs and the likely cost, I don’t think Laine is a fit for the team, despite his goal scoring prowled.

This team lacks goals because it spends too much time in their own zone. We need play drivers, particularly on defense. Laine isn’t a particular good 5-on-5 player, which is why he may be on the block to begin with. Given the likely cost would be opening a further hole on defense, he would likely underwhelm here just because he wouldn’t have the opportunities to score.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

That is the type of trade a contending team looking for another piece to put them over the edge makes

That is not the type of move a rebuilding team that is starving for defense makes.

 

[MikeyFlynn]

If you can acquire Laine, and then sign 2-3 defensemen in UFA, then this team is significantly improved. There are a sh*t ton of middle pairing defensemen on thhe free agent market this summer. Here is a list of the defensemen that are on the market that are top 4 defensemen. With so many teams in a cap bind, Devils are a good bet to land a few of them if they wish to do so:

Pietrangelo
Krug
Vatanen
Barrie
Dillon
Hamonic
Brodie
Schultz
Tanev
Shattenkirk

Those guys are all capable of eating up the minutes the Devils would need filled in the event of a Severson departure.

Then you have guys like

Greene
Gudas
Demelo
Braun
Borowiecki

who are capable of eating up minutes as well.

Losing Severson would hurt for sure. But acquiring Patrik Laine would be HUGE for this franchise. The kid is 22 years old. And he will be 22 for the entirety of the regular season.

 

[glenwo2]

It's from his time with the Wild, but it's still classic Lemaire.

7:26 "I push him. I tell him between shifts that he's got to work harder. I tell him in Practice. I tell him when he sleeps. I tell him when he eats. When he goes for a dump."

Jacques Lemaire is a national treasure.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Problem is, there already is a void even while we have Severson.

We need to add about 2 and maybe 3 dman this offseason and that’s with or without Severson.

True, losing Severson wouldn’t give us a better blueline but he wouldn’t be irreplaceable. There’s guys who have been on the block that can bring the same level of play in Ristolainen for example or Tyson Barrie can rejuvenate his career as a free agent. We also have Ty Smith who will be looking to crack our roster and he’s been playing the right side his entire career. All I’m trying to say is the if we were to lose Severson, it wouldn’t be the end of the world, just like it wasn’t the end of the world when we moved Larsson.

 

[MikeyFlynn]

That is the type of trade a contending team looking for another piece to put them over the edge makes

That is not the type of move a rebuilding team that is starving for defense makes.

....?

LOL

Couldn't be more wrong. When was the last time you saw a contending team go out and acquire a 22 year old as a "piece that puts them over the edge" ? Please let me know I'd love to see an example. Trading for a 22 year old elite goal scoring winger is the EXACT type of move a rebuilding team should be making. Sure, we are starving for defense, but you don't pass up on acquiring a 22 year old superstar when he is available.

 

[jkrdevil]

If you can acquire Laine, and then sign 2-3 defensemen in UFA, then this team is significantly improved. There are a sh*t ton of middle pairing defensemen on thhe free agent market this summer. Here is a list of the defensemen that are on the market that are top 4 defensemen. With so many teams in a cap bind, Devils are a good bet to land a few of them if they wish to do so:

Pietrangelo
Krug
Vatanen
Barrie
Dillon
Hamonic
Brodie
Schultz
Tanev
Shattenkirk

Those guys are all capable of eating up the minutes the Devils would need filled in the event of a Severson departure.

Then you have guys like

Greene
Gudas
Demelo
Braun
Borowiecki

who are capable of eating up minutes as well.

Losing Severson would hurt for sure. But acquiring Patrik Laine would be HUGE for this franchise. The kid is 22 years old. And he will be 22 for the entirety of the regular season.

Well bringing in Laine takes away money to invest in your other 2-3 defensemen (short term we are likely on a budget, long term it probably creates cap problems). The team is probably better off investing in the defense and finding affordable, yet, strong 5-on-5 wingers to support Nico and Hughes.

Laine is not Taylor Hall, who was an elite play driver when we acquired him. Laine is a terrific shooter, but he is a terrible 5-on-5 player who doesn’t drive play. That is why he is on the trade block. Putting him on this team while taking Severson off and taking away money for other defensemen basically makes him useless except for the PP. You sustainably win game by being good at 5-on-5, not by having a decent PP and praying 5-on-5 (which is what we had to do in 2018).

Laine is a fit for a good 5-on-5 team who needs scoring and can absorb his negatives. That is what the Jets were his rookie year before they lost their entire d-corp. That’s not us right now, and he really wouldn’t help us get there.

 

[glenwo2]

Well bringing in Laine takes away money to invest in your other 2-3 defensemen (short term we are likely on a budget, long term it probably creates cap problems). The team is probably better off investing in the defense and finding affordable, yet, strong 5-on-5 wingers to support Nico and Hughes.

Laine is not Taylor Hall, who was an elite play driver when we acquired him. Laine is a terrific shooter, but he is a terrible 5-on-5 player who doesn’t drive play. That is why he is on the trade block. Putting him on this team while taking Severson off and taking away money for other defensemen basically makes him useless except for the PP. You sustainably win game by being good at 5-on-5, not by having a decent PP and praying 5-on-5 (which is what we had to do in 2018).

Laine is a fit for a good 5-on-5 team who needs scoring and can absorb his negatives. That is what the Jets were his rookie year before they lost their entire d-corp. That’s not us right now, and he really wouldn’t help us get there.

Something else to consider : Team Chemistry.

You think Laine would be Happy to be in a rebuilding situation?

He could be a malcontent on this team or something.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

....?

LOL

Couldn't be more wrong. When was the last time you saw a contending team go out and acquire a 22 year old as a "piece that puts them over the edge" ? Please let me know I'd love to see an example. Trading for a 22 year old elite goal scoring winger is the EXACT type of move a rebuilding team should be making. Sure, we are starving for defense, but you don't pass up on acquiring a 22 year old superstar when he is available.

Laine is certainly not a superstar

 

[NJ Fan 12]

Laine is certainly not a superstar

Huh? All kinds of players score 140+ goals before they're 22 and have the size and shot that he does.

By comparison, Draisaitl didn't break 30 goals until his fourth pro season.

 

[Brodeur]

I think the Devils should do everything possible to acquire Laine if he is actually on the table. When a 22 year old that has 138 career goals is on the market - you HAVE to kick tires.

Severson + Boqvist + 18th overall + 20th overall.

Would be hard for a team to beat an offer like that. Only team I think could potentially beat that offer would be Carolina.

I don't think that necessarily fits what Winnipeg is looking for. Sounds like they'd want a more defensive minded / physical RD to replace what they had with Byfuglien/Trouba.

They still have Kyle Connor and Nik Ehlers at LW and I think most places have Jets' 2017 1st rounder LW Kristian Vesalainen as a better prospect than Boqvist. I don't think Boqvist could be penciled in to be anybody's #2 center in the near future either. The first rounders are nice, but those prospects would be a few years away from contributing. Frank Seravelli speculated that Winnipeg could look into moving Laine but seemingly to fit in needs to help the current core win right now rather than accumulate assets for later.

Realistically I don't think Winnipeg would move Laine until next offseason when they have to decide whether to give him a big money extension.

 

[Alex NJD]

Rebuilding teams don't trade 4 young assets for 1. Look at how deep some of these playoff teams are. Look what happened to the Oilers, Sharks, Leafs, all top heavy talent with garbage depth. We need as many talented players as we can get right now.

 

[MartyOwns]

Severson + Boqvist + 18th overall + 20th overall.

 

[MachoDiablo]

Taking our time to see what our young guys are made of is nice and all but if we have someone like Boqvist in our top #6 and we don’t add a dman to the mediocre cast we have right now, there’s nothing much Hischier, Hughes, Bratt and Blackwood can do. We’re asking our kids to lead this team to the playoffs with little to no support. For me, it’s nothing short of a recipe for disaster.

We need to surround our young kids with talent, not ask for Boqvist to play in a role he has no business being in, just to see if he can sink or swim. This isn’t a training camp where we can just waste a season to see where our kids are at. If that’s the attitude we have, then they should be playing in Binghamton instead of New Jersey.

We have a two year window that can be extremely beneficial for our team and taking advantage of cap strapped teams and the expansion draft will give us the help we need to add talent to this roster.

But you're acting as if our young guys are all already proven, and thus we should give up tons of young and cost-controlled assets to add a few good pieces around them, as if that'll actually build a contender. I'm sure it could build a solid team for a couple of years, but when you give up a bunch of high draft picks, young players, and cap space, you're putting a time limit and a ceiling on how high that team can go.

The fact is, the Devils need a lot right now: help on the wing, help on the blue line, certainty in net, more size or at least ability to control the puck outside their own end, etc. The young guys who are here already may well be the answer going forward, but they haven't had the chance to really show it yet, so we can't be certain.

Meanwhile, the absolute best way to address a situation when you've got multiple gaps that need to be filled is to acquire high draft picks and accumulate as much good young talent as you can. Some of those players will work out, some won't, but having more potential high-impact talent within the system already is what allows a club to become not just a contender, but a perennial contender, which is what we should be aiming to be. Right now the Devils have some respectable depth within the system, but lack a few more guys who project to be real star level players; that's what the club's going to need to take the next step.

Laine doesn't put the Devils over the finish line, and giving up multiple first rounders in a forward-deep draft when we're in the midst of rebuilding does us no good. I get that Laine, the main example being used here, is young, and that's good given where the rest of the team is at, but you don't get him at the expense of so many younger assets, including two first rounders in a deep draft, unless you're of the mind that the team is ready to be a legit Cup contender, not when there are still so many questions on the roster that need answering.

 

[TBF1972]

"I want to improve our team and these picks will do that," the New Jersey Devils general manager said. "Whether using them to continue to build up our prospect arsenal or moving a pick for a player who can fit into the Jack Hughes (19 years old) or Nico Hischier(21) age bracket now and for the foreseeable future."

NHL.com, 5 Questions with Tom Fitzgerald

Let's go to the trade board and see, if we can acquire Dahlin, Makar or Heiskanen with one of the picks.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Let's go to the trade board and see, if we can acquire Dahlin, Makar or Heiskanen with one of the picks.

You forgot Hughes.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

But you're acting as if our young guys are all already proven, and thus we should give up tons of young and cost-controlled assets to add a few good pieces around them, as if that'll actually build a contender. I'm sure it could build a solid team for a couple of years, but when you give up a bunch of high draft picks, young players, and cap space, you're putting a time limit and a ceiling on how high that team can go.

The fact is, the Devils need a lot right now: help on the wing, help on the blue line, certainty in net, more size or at least ability to control the puck outside their own end, etc. The young guys who are here already may well be the answer going forward, but they haven't had the chance to really show it yet, so we can't be certain.

Meanwhile, the absolute best way to address a situation when you've got multiple gaps that need to be filled is to acquire high draft picks and accumulate as much good young talent as you can. Some of those players will work out, some won't, but having more potential high-impact talent within the system already is what allows a club to become not just a contender, but a perennial contender, which is what we should be aiming to be. Right now the Devils have some respectable depth within the system, but lack a few more guys who project to be real star level players; that's what the club's going to need to take the next step.

Laine doesn't put the Devils over the finish line, and giving up multiple first rounders in a forward-deep draft when we're in the midst of rebuilding does us no good. I get that Laine, the main example being used here, is young, and that's good given where the rest of the team is at, but you don't get him at the expense of so many younger assets, including two first rounders in a deep draft, unless you're of the mind that the team is ready to be a legit Cup contender, not when there are still so many questions on the roster that need answering.

We've been talking about adding picks for what now, 3 or 4 years? Shero managed to load up our pipeline by adding 9 picks in 2016, 11 picks in 2017, 6 picks in 2018 and 11 picks in 2019. At what point do we stop crossing our fingers that we’ll get a better roster by adding 17 and 18 year olds? We managed to win two lotteries and drafted two franchise centers and we’re going to land another stud this year with the 7th overall pick. All of that is great but our current team won’t get any better in 2 or 3 years with the prospects we’ll be drafting 18th and 20th overall, so my question to you is this... do you think we’ll be able to keep Palmieri, Gusev and even Severson when their contracts will run out? At some point, this team is going to have to be competitive in order to keep our pending UFA’s.

This mindset that adding picks is the only way to get us to be a competitive team is garbage. Just look at the Oilers, who’ve been drafting in the top #10 for almost a decade, managed to land 2 of the best players in the league and are still scratching and clawing their way to the playoffs. The same can be said about the Sabres, who were selling solid players to land "future assets" and are stuck in neutral for the past 10+ years despite having Eichel and Dahlin. You can also throw in the Coyotes and the Panthers for good mesure as well. All those teams who have been waiting for teenagers to bring them to the promise land have failed to actually build a team around those kids and that’s exactly what most of this board wants to do.

We are knee deep in cap space, so acting as if we would be crippling our future by adding a 9M$-10M$ winger, who’s 22 years old, is nonsense. We wanted to keep Taylor Hall for that price and he’s not even worth that type of money. We have 3 HUGE contracts coming off the books in less then 3 years in Zajac (5.75M$), Schneider (6M$) and Subban (9M$). We also have two pending UFA’s next year in Palmieri (4.75M$) and Gusev (4.5M$) who are no locks to be coming back, so please, can we stop with this notion that we would be screwed beyond belief if we were to spend some cash on a proven goal scorer!

If the Hurricanes want Laine, they’ll have the better package but if that isn’t the case, Fitzgerald needs to do whatever he can to get him. We have to start setting a backbone to this foundation and having the 7th overall pick, Hughes, Smith, Bratt, Blackwood, Hischier and Laine, who are all under 23 years of age would be a hell of a start.