Devils 2019 offseason team discussion (news and notes) II

[Hischier and Hughes]

Mueller sucks, come on now.

Youre saying Butcher is better defensively than Mueller?

If no then why is he over Mueller in the top-4?

 

[Ripshot 43]

IMO the only way Butcher isn’t back is if he’s an important part of a big trade for a 1st pair defender.

Meaning I think very highly of Butcher.

 

[theoptimist]

And I don't care what precedent it sets for future NCAA free agents if we trade Butcher

 

[MadDevil]

Comparing Mueller and Butcher is kind of apples to oranges given their skillsets. They both played the same amount at even strength, with Butcher getting a bunch of PP time (as he should) and Mueller getting some PK time. I don't know as if I'd consider either of them a top 4 defenseman. Butcher has some physical limitations, while I think Mueller has some mental limitations. If we could put Butcher's brain into Mueller's body we'd have a legit top 4 (maybe even top pairing) defenseman.

 

[Bcap88]

So if a player plays well in limited time - they dont deserve more.... because they were already playing limited time?

How the hell is any defenseman supposed to prove themselves with that mentality?

On top of that, its simply wrong to think Mueller has been poor in the time hes had. Defensively he has been practically the best minus Lovejoy’s insane PKing last year and Greenems blocked shots

ATOI 18 and he spent plenty of games playing well over 19+. Without Hynes pulling him every other game for rotation of guys (since the season was ****), hed have been playing 19+ every game. Not to mention he played around 19+ average for the first 20 games and then **** hit the fan so it was a combination of rotations and Hynes being Hynes, plus injuries

He most certainly can be a #4 IMO and has been when given the chance - yet each time an injury arrives or the team plummets and Hynes starts trying everything

You are missing the point, to bank on a guy to handle top 4 minutes when he’s been injured,scratched for most of his time here is not conducive to success.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

You are missing the point, to bank on a guy to handle top 4 minutes when he’s been injured,scratched for most of his time here is not conducive to success.

Im just working with what weve got!

 

[NJDevs26]

Well its not known yet so its a maybe as of now.

Butcher's RFA, not UFA. Sure he 'might' be traded but so could almost anyone else under contract or team control.

You are missing the point, to bank on a guy to handle top 4 minutes when he’s been injured,scratched for most of his time here is not conducive to success.

Not to mention being a completely one-dimensional player. Mueller's below a zero offensively. If you're going to have three goals and 21 points in 135 NHL games you better be awesome defensively to stick. Two years ago he was at least above average defensively, this year he was just meh in part I think because he lost his confidence after the benchings but still when you get half a chance you gotta take advantage of it and even the best Mueller is extremely limited.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I wouldn’t say Mueller sucks, but he’s a dime a dozen player that doesn’t offer much. The team is much better with Butcher on the ice.

I’m starting to question Vatanen’s long term outlook with the Devils. He’s a UFA next year, he’s had injury troubles, he’s small, offensively minded like most of our d prospects. He’ll probably get a deal he isn’t worth.

The only guys I think will definitely be here in 2 years are Severson, Butcher, and Smith.

 

[Azathoth]

I think butcher’s defense gets a bit underrated by devils fans (elsewhere more than here). Who cares if he’s not a super fast skater. He’s usually good positionally and doesn’t have a lot of mental lapses that other guys are prone to. I think he could handle a 3/4 role next year with the right partner.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I wouldn’t say Mueller sucks, but he’s a dime a dozen player that doesn’t offer much. The team is much better with Butcher on the ice.

I’m starting to question Vatanen’s long term outlook with the Devils. He’s a UFA next year, he’s had injury troubles, he’s small, offensively minded like most of our d prospects. He’ll probably get a deal he isn’t worth.

The only guys I think will definitely be here in 2 years are Severson, Butcher, and Smith.

We don’t really have any depth options on the right side prospect wise outside of Walsh.

So unless we make another major move, we really do need Vats.

 

[tr83]

If Mueller and Butcher were combined to make one guy, they would make a good defenseman.

That said, their flaws are so evident, both make fringe NHL players. Butcher will be more valued as offense is preferred on the backend on this team and on most teams in the league. Mueller will probably be nothing more than a 7D fill-in for when teams play bigger teams like Winnipeg, Washington, or Columbus.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We don’t really have any depth options on the right side prospect wise outside of Walsh.

So unless we make another major move, we really do need Vats.

We need to make multiple significant moves even if we don’t move on from Vatanen if we want to compete. Subban seems like a perfect option. He wasn’t great last year and is past his prime, but we’re a team that can comfortably fit his deal under the cap for the next 3 years.

 

[BahlDeep]

I think Butcher is a fine defenseman, he's not a liability in his own zone like he is made out to be

 

[Emperoreddy]

We need to make multiple significant moves even if we don’t move on from Vatanen if we want to compete. Subban seems like a perfect option. He wasn’t great last year and is past his prime, but we’re a team that can comfortably fit his deal under the cap for the next 3 years.

I would give my left arm if it convinced EK to sign here.

 

[MartyOwns]

If Mueller and Butcher were combined to make one guy, they would make a good defenseman.

That said, their flaws are so evident, both make fringe NHL players. Butcher will be more valued as offense is preferred on the backend on this team and on most teams in the league. Mueller will probably be nothing more than a 7D fill-in for when teams play bigger teams like Winnipeg, Washington, or Columbus.

sorry but butcher is not a fringe nhl player. mueller, that’s probably correct

 

[Tretyak 20]

What has Butcher done to deserve an automatic spot back with a healthy deal?

Put up 74 pts in his first 159 games. That's not exactly common.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Damon Severson put up 39 points in a year where we stunk and a lot of people are trying to leverage his value into a trade as a 24 year offensive defenseman... why is it unreasonable to think the same with Will Butcher, who is a 24 year old offensive defenseman.

 

[Camille the Eel]

I think Butcher is a fine defenseman, he's not a liability in his own zone like he is made out to be

His problems are more in transition. The weaknesses or mistakes have involved getting caught up ice without the foot speed necessary to get back into the play. Of course he’s relatively small. So in breaking up a forecheck in our end, he’s got to deal with that.

But - and I should have started here - Butcher grew a lot defensively this year. His positioning, staying on the right side of the play, and use of his body to block guys off along the boards were all so much better than in his rookie year. He’s quite good and a positive asset.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Unless he's packaged for a massive upgrade that crashes this board, Butcher isn't going anywhere.

XXX - Severson
Smith - Vatanen
Greene - Butcher

... is where we should be.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Unless he's packaged for a massive upgrade that crashes this board, Butcher isn't going anywhere.

XXX - Severson
Smith - Vatanen
Greene - Butcher

... is where we should be.

Is "XXX" you're new nickname for Trouba?

 

[Ripshot 43]

Unless he's packaged for a massive upgrade that crashes this board, Butcher isn't going anywhere.

XXX - Severson
Smith - Vatanen
Greene - Butcher

... is where we should be.

This I see as realistically ideal and without an upgrade we see Greene playing 1st pairing again with whoever picking up 3rd pairing duties (Davies, Muller, Butcher, Carrick)

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

We need to make multiple significant moves even if we don’t move on from Vatanen if we want to compete. Subban seems like a perfect option. He wasn’t great last year and is past his prime, but we’re a team that can comfortably fit his deal under the cap for the next 3 years.

Given Shero's comments at his press conference after he got his extension I doubt he would be making multiple significant m0ves on "D". I am not one to try and twist words from GM's/athletes but when he comments that even good teams in this era do not have 6 good defenseman I would be surprised if he has plans to put assets into a 30 year old declining PK Subban.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

This I see as realistically ideal and without an upgrade we see Greene playing 1st pairing again with whoever picking up 3rd pairing duties (Davies, Muller, Butcher, Carrick)

I'd be shocked if Shero doesn't acquire a defenseman for the left side. I don't think we'll need to worry about Greene potentially playing on the top pair.

 

[Ripshot 43]

I'd be shocked if Shero doesn't acquire a defenseman for the left side. I don't think we'll need to worry about Greene potentially playing on the top pair.

I would be shocked if he isnt trying but actually acquiring someone for the top pair is a different story. Takes 2 to tango and all that jazz and if we do acquire someone to play on the top pairing, we will be giving up a boatload of futures.

 

[Emperoreddy]

As much as we need a defensive upgrade. We are more likely to see an upgrade for a scoring winger then D just by virtue of them being more readily available at decent prices.